Basil Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Whilst I fully accept the point of view expressed within this thread that all care should be taken in case something should happen some of what has been said is what causes the doubt, well certainly in my mind, I have no axe to grind but do wish to understand what is happening, so far the only expert opinion I have seen/ read says it can't happen. Quote "The journalist chap had been advised by the Spanish police that they believe the ether-type gas is sprayed into the underfloor vents and it then rises up the van and out through the roof vents as they have continuous ventilation, that could explain why they can enter the van and not be knocked out themselves as by the time they get in the gas has gone. DO NOT be tempted to block any off these vents, they are there for safety - if you block them off you then run the risk of gassing yourself!" The fact is Ether based/ type substances are HEAVIER than air and so would not naturally permeate upwards, therefore the only way that sufficient concentrations of a narcotic gas of this nature could take effect on someone would be if sufficient amounts of the gas were pumped in under pressure to fill the interior to above the level of the sleeping people. Now gas of that nature being highly volatile would undoubtably explode in those type of concentrations should any non intrinsicaly safe ignition source occur e.g. fridge, light on cab door opening any other form of spark. So why if these attacks are so prolific have we not heard of deaths from overdose, only has around 1.5% tolerance between sleep and death and why have we not heard of motorhomes exploding or bursting into flame? I am not being a knocker just want to understand what is REALLY happening. I have stopped on aires and even laybys alone since the 70's and have never experienced any problems, whatismore I have no personal experience of anyone who has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 By saying "gassing yourself" in one of my previous replies I meant gassing yourself from your own fridge fumes and/or a propane/butane gas leak, nothing else, just in case anyone was confused! "Ether type" substance - depending on what it is mixed with (ie what the product is) it has different properties, short of doing a test with them I don't know exactly how they would act in a motorhome environment etc. It would be useful if an 'expert' would give their view, and by that I mean someone who has researched into this and carried out tests, but we all know that that won't happen. Referring back to my theory (below) as to what I think may be happenning, I totally agree that the filling of a motorhome with gas is ridiculous for all of the reasons suggested, but the below is not. [QUOTE]Mel B - 2006-08-09 9:09 PM My theory is that they silently break in the van, then once in they spray some gas over the already sleeping occupants, therefore they don't have to knock them out, just keep them asleep, they then rob them and make good their escape. QUOTE] Whether gas is used at all in robberies again has to be proven as has been suggested, but it is still a possibility that this happens sometimes, I don't think anyone could or would like to say for definite that such robberies don't happen using gas. Gas or no gas, I think everybody would agree that robberies DO occur at sometime at some of these aires and whether you want to take the risk is up to you. Unfortuantely just because you've never had problems in the past doesn't mean you won't in the future. I'd rather take that little bit more care in finding a safer place to stop and have a good night's sleep rather than worry. To everyone ... just think a little bit about how you use your motorhomes and keep safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonB Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Whats coming over loud and clear is that nobody is convinced either way if these gas attacks are happening or not. If people are reporting them as happening how do they prove it, other than report it to the police which they seem to be doing? Like a lot of things in life you weight up the odds and act accordingly. Having been one, years ago, who doubted that low life could break into our van without waking us up, and having been proved wrong, I am not about to take the chance of being proved wrong again. A floor located, all type gas alarm at around £100 seems good value to me if its going to protect my family. If its never needed I will be more than pleased. Incidentally, I agree with the earlier posting, the 'known' mugging area is the A9 to the French/Spanish border and then on to Barcelona. One reason may be the large concentration of 'immigrant' camps in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Having had a good look around my van I found that the only holes in the floor are in lockers or cupboards that contain calor gas fittings. As none of these holes have direct access to the living quarters I can't see how enough gas could be pumped in to have any effect via this method? There is a large vent in the caravan door but I have this blocked off with foam due to the howling gale that roars through it in any windy conditions. That just leaves windows and skylights in the caravan section so I guess we will have to sleep with all windows firmly shut from now on. I don't quite see how any body could get up on the roof to access the skylights without waking us - unless maybe the van had a ladder - which ours does not. This just leaves the cab heater and ventilation intake which will also be firmly shut off at night from now on. Anyone for air con! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Would anyone care to comment on my latest posting to the thread 'please read before posting'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1ntersun Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Regular, I still don't believe that you can be gassed just by pumping gas into the van, natural air change alone keeps the air fresh otherwise you would suffercate. If this is indeed happening I think they must silently break into the van first, then at close quarters administer the gas, as in ether soaked on a rag.I take all precautions about locking and strapping the front doors together, I put my camping chair between the front seats so that it make it as difficult as possible to get into the back quietly and I sleep soundly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonB Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 If my memory serves me right the most common reported entry point for gas is simply to prise out the cab quarter light from its rubber frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1ntersun Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Ps Here is the Tel no of the Spanish police English speaking officers 902-10-21-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1ntersun Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Member, Again I close the blinds betwen the cab and the back, this would resrict the flow of any gas. Another tip is to hang a garden chime on the straps between the front doors which would jingle if the doors were shaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Removal of quarterlight sounds plausible? I'll have to see if I can superglue them in place! Paranoia does not yet reign - but sensible precautions and an open mind do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Re quarterlight glass removal. I saw one van which had very thin stainless steel shim superglued onto the rubber strip surround, looked a neat job and couldn't be cut with a craft knife. Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianR Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I have tried the Waeco Magic Safe gas alarm, available from Outdoor Bits for £59.99. This is easy to use and is sensative to a range of narcotic gases, at concentration levels lower than those required to knock you out (or so they claim). They recommend that it is used at bed height, close to the bed. I have doubts about the stories of gas being sprayed in from outside and would agree that if used at all, it is administered from inside the van. Also, even if you have a gas alarm, what do you do if it goes off? The recommendation is that you immediately evacuate the 'van without operating any electrical/electronic equipment - presumably because of the risk. But who wants to leap out if there are thieves out there? I would be inclined to set of the intruder alarm and ventilate the 'van, but then this would make it easier for them to get in? What do other people think? Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I would be interested to know how this gas could be administered to four or up to six people, individually, in the same van without one of them being disturbed and why if this was the case was there no after smell or skin damage around the face as would be the case??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I believe that these attacks do happen (fortunately never to me). The couple who told me about them said that they were sleeping at an all night service area in between the HGVs on the A7 in Spain and when they woke feeling groggy and found that all of their money and documents had been taken from beneath their mattress while they slept on it. I have also been told that a pencil style blowtorch is sometimes used to melt the plastic window near the motorhome sleeping area and gas is squirted in through the hole. I never stop overnight on Motorway service areas or Aires just in case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Bell Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I know just about everything has been said on this subject, and without reading it all again, it occurred to me that this must also be a problem for long distant lorry drivers, who potentially must be a more lucrative target considering the haul of a potential 'knock out and nick'. These trucks carry tens of thousands of pounds worth of gear. Is it a problem for them, Has it ever been? if not why not, and if so how have they tackled it. Anyone know. Its a much smaller cab so wouldn't that make it easier? Lots of questions, any answers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I beleive these attacks (if they ever occurred) started with truckers because, as you say, they are an easier target with a larger potential haul. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 656 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 The supposedly gas used is Ether based - Easy Start. However, the gas is highly volotile. The risk of an explosion via the fridge in a 'van is extreamly high. The Easy Start cans also contain propane as a propelant. Is this plausable, yes but does it happen? I doubt it. Dave 656 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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