welshjim99 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 hi all, I have a charging problem with my leisure battery, reaching 13.3/13.4 but not 14.1/14.2 like the engine battery. I am trying to find the split charge relay. Someone did direct me to the box in the engine compartment which has 6 relays and 3 'low value' fuses (2; 7.5A 1; 15A)..can this really be it? Advice greatly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Hi Neil and welcome to the wonderful world of the forum. There may well be nowt wrong with your van as although 13.4 v is not really enough to desulphate and fully charge the battery it may well be the design maximum to avoid the risk of battery gas (hydrogen) escaping inside the van? Have you checked with Timberland? Leisure battery relays are often fixed to the front of the engine bay, just inside the bonnet on the front cross member where they are easy to fit and get to but prone to rain water and spray soaking - but this may not apply to a Timberland - I don't know never having had one! I would expect to see at least 20 amp and probably 30 amp fuses on a leisure battery relay and if there is a fault it is more likely to be corrosion of the fuse and/or connection terminals than anything else. The relays you show look more like originals than add ons - but hopefully an expert on both Timberland and 2.8 Fiats will be along shortly to clarify and I await being corrected! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 These are engine relays and not what you are looking for. I struck it lucky recently locating in a Swift MH so hope this may help. In that case the relays are contained under a black plastic cover in the middle of the engine bay held on by two nuts. The cover was located to the left of the water expansion tank and is about 10" X 4" and also near the top of the scuttle. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Fan Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Hi there from another Timberland owner. I don't know how old your van is, but on my 2005 (2.8 JTD Freedom II) the relay is sited behind the Glove Box. I think the feed is taken from the fuse and distribution box next to the Glovebox on the passenger side. The Glovebox needs to be removed to access the relay. Hope this helps, Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshjim99 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Share Posted August 2, 2013 wow thanks all for responses late on a friday night..does get a bit obsessive this motorhome hobby. Re the voltage its 13.3/4 with no Load but once I put on the compressor fridge it drops to 12.9 ish, which then makes me assume the leisure battery isnt really charging at all. which came to pass on a weekend on the Pembrokeshire coast when the last lesiure battery went down. I've since bought a new one but I'm concerned that the above will cause the same thing to happen, hence looking into the split charge system and looking for those elusive 'volt drops'.. I will have another look in the morning for the relays and fuses.. thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Has it always been like it, if so I would suspect the cable used is too small giving a volt drop. The fact that it drops further when the fridge is running suggests they have used a single cable from the engine battery to either 2 single pole relays one for the fridge and one for the battery or a double pole relay with each pole feeding the the fridge and battery. I would try increasing the cable size from the battery to at least 5mm sq cable and see if improves. If it does I would be inclined to re-wire with larger cables. Also if they are using a double pole relay you are better of swapping it for two single pole relays with separate fuses feeding them. With a double pole relay if the supply fuse to the relay fails and the engine is running so the relay is closed (on) the frig will take it's supply from the leisure battery via the relay. Edit: Could also be as simple as the relay contacts have carboned up due the arc you get when switching high current which will cause a volt drop. To check just by-pass the relay with a cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 I think your looking for the relay in the wrong place, I doubt a converter would do anything other than take a feed directly from the battery, look for an after market one held with a self tapping screw near the battery as ,maybe on the bonnet slam panel, I'd be very surprised if it was not something like this with it's own fuse, and some fairly thick red cabling, although they could use an unfused relay with an inline blade fuse again very near the battery ;-) Due to the "inhospitable" location you may well find as I did with mine the fuse contacts have been compromised with corrosion setting up a degree of resistance, I had this also with my fridge relay. I changed the split charge relay at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshjim99 Posted August 3, 2013 Author Share Posted August 3, 2013 Yes I think its near the battery - but it is a minefield in there, i've attached a photo - suggestions as to which one before I start poking around greatly received, to me looks like either 1 or 2 on the drawing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshjim99 Posted August 3, 2013 Author Share Posted August 3, 2013 my van is 2001 by the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 The black relay looks like a original Fiat part, and the red cables there are far too many cables. Usually when a split charge relay is fitted it will have an in-line fuse close to the battery look for anyy addional wires connected to the battery that have an in-line fuse within a metre of the battery. May be just as easy to fit new cables, fuses and relays and disconnect existing ones at the fridge and leisure battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshjim99 Posted August 3, 2013 Author Share Posted August 3, 2013 Thanks Lenny, To the far left are 3 obvious mega fuses 60A 40A 60A + a 30A hidden behind, I did pull these and sand the contacts with a slight improvement, leisure battery now reaching the dizzy heights of 13.5V (fridge off - but it is a bit cooler so alternator voltage should rise a touch).. the back block (1) is actually just a postive connecting block - hence all the cobles, the block (2) does look like a fiat part and has a rubber shroud and looks like more than just a relay... will keep looking Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 I very much doubt the split charge relay fuse will be anything like those values, more like 15amp max, I could check mine, but that would be later today, and as sure as I can be in saying this, will not be a part of the original wiring loom of the van, it will be a separate jobby put in by Timberland as I've said before, I'm reluctant to say this, but why not wait until Monday and give them a ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 If it's a single feed likely to be 30amp, 40amp max, if a dual feed they would be 15 or 20 amp each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Probably of no help, but my split charge relay is under the front passenger seat. In the Benima, the leisure batteries are slung under the floor behind the passenger seat underneath the side facing bench seat. So I guess the split charge relay is about midway between the engine battery & the leisure batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Dunno if you've found it yet, but mine is protected by a 15amp fuse in the relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshjim99 Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 I went back to the wiring birdsnest behind the glove box and there are 2 relays cable tied to an existing harness, where a feed has been taken from a fuse contact, they click with the ignition and the interior lights go off (isolating that supply) trouble is I cant see any obvious fuses, will try again tomorrow if it stops raining! thanks for all your advice, I am so impressed by this forum, I tried motorhome facts but got nothing after 3 days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 welshjim99 - 2013-08-04 7:45 PM I went back to the wiring birdsnest behind the glove box and there are 2 relays cable tied to an existing harness, where a feed has been taken from a fuse contact, they click with the ignition and the interior lights go off (isolating that supply) trouble is I cant see any obvious fuses, will try again tomorrow if it stops raining! thanks for all your advice, I am so impressed by this forum, I tried motorhome facts but got nothing after 3 days I've just re-read your initial post, the values you quote getting to the leisure battery from the relay are entirely consistent with mine, current via smaller and longer cable runs will result in voltage loss in any event, I would not worry about it, the only way you'll get the full whack from the Alternator is an expensive bit of kit, and really not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshjim99 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 What concerns me is that there is no real charge happening whilst driving with the fridge on and since I am a bit of a 'wild camper' I want to get to site knowing that my leisure battery has been fully charged from the drive and in my experience it really needs to get to 13.8V minimum to reach probably only 90% charge! I'm suprised you havent experienced similar problems unless you go straight to hook up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 No I haven't, on our last trip to France of 46 nights we only spent 4 nights on hookup, even after a fairly long drive the batteries ( I have two 85 amp ) the voltage settles back to 12.7 and we can easily have four days parked up, but I have used LED units to replace all 16 halogen bulbs, and a 12 volt TV that only draws 0.5 amps. I have noticed however like you if the fridge is on 12 volt despite being powered from a separate relay the power of which goes directly to the fridge which too is under the bonnet the leisure batteries charge rate is less, again even though fed from a separate relay. Here's a great site for all things battery charging. http://www.sp-shop.co.uk/?gclid=CKHxsZuJ5rgCFbIPtAodry4Ajg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshjim99 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 Do you use a compressor fridge or do you run it on Gas when camping? this may be the difference. I have reservations with the compressor fridges their draw is probaly of the order 1-2A cycling or 15-20Ahr/day but they are a lot more versatile than the 3 way whislt travelling but when parked there is no Gas option. I know with the 3 way fridge when on Battery they wil draw 8/9A continuously which will cause more volt drops on the cabling whilst driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 No Neil, we have a three way fridge, and run on gas when parked up. I've always wondered about the merits of fitting an additional battery as I have done, buying a matched pair, because whilst it gives you more "parked up" time they still have to be charged, to that end I have just last week installed a 90 watt solar panel and charge controller, this now shows my batteries receiving a float charge of 13.8 volts, I have never seen that value from the split charge relay. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 welshjim99 - 2013-08-03 12:42 PM the block (2) does look like a fiat part and has a rubber shroud and looks like more than just a relay... Neil Neil, You're spot on with this statement! The item you have marked as number 2 is in fact the crash sensor and switches off the engine ECU in the event of a crash. You reset it by pressing the button under the rubber cover on the top. I would imagine the fuses you mentioned to the left on this photo are your split charge and fridge fuses and are probably connected to the relays you said about under the dash. Are the wire colours the same by any chance? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshjim99 Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 thanks for that Keith, have just returned from 2 excellent weeks on the west coast of france, but i did have hook up!, my compressor fridge is the overriding factor, it doesnt run on gas and I'm still assessing its draw. I will asses the fuses over the next few days, but I do still believe there is a volt drop issue here and that the batteries arent getting there 'best' charge whilst driving and running the fridge. I did want the battery to run the the van for at least a wild weekend on the pembrokeshire coast - I have a 'small' 40W Pv panel for topping up my 85ah battery assuming it is full when I arrive on site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Have you considered fitting a Sterling Battery to Battery charger not cheap (about £285) but it will probably solve your problem, have a look at the info here- Battery to Battery Charger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshjim99 Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 thanks Lenny but a bit out of my price range and I'm keen to sort this problem out, I've done my own conversion before and managed to get the leisure battery within 0.2V of the engine battery with some decent size wiring and clean connections. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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