Jump to content

Another Political Suicide Note


Dave225

Recommended Posts

Could this be another political suicide note.

 

The LibDems want to ban all petrol and diesel vehicles in the UK within 27 years. As many of that Party use if not one then several to get themselves around one wonders whether there will be exceptions for ‘essential’ people such as LibDems. Oh yes I forgot Nick the Clegg did take the boat up the Thames with his wife fawning at him, but then again his limo drove along the bank as well taking his bag as that was too heavy for such an important person to carry himself. The Libbies foresee all transport being done by low carbon alternatives, which for you and I, read horse and cart or bicycle.

 

As the Chinese are building and buying cars like there is no tomorrow one can only wonder at the madness of a Party that thinks this will have the slightest effect on global air purity but will have the significant effect of pushing the UK further into the wastelands of nations. As a major car building nation it is eminently sensible to cut that off at a stroke. It is funny that not so long ago we all visualised China as the poor nation of millions of bike owners, soon that will be us while they have the cars.

 

They do state however that this is to be discussed at their Conference but for them to even suggest such a mad idea only shows how out of touch they actually are. If there was ever a reason to consign them to the dustbin of history then this must be up there among the top.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Had Enough
Dave225 - 2013-08-06 6:06 PM

 

Could this be another political suicide note.

 

The LibDems want to ban all petrol and diesel vehicles in the UK within 27 years. As many of that Party use if not one then several to get themselves around one wonders whether there will be exceptions for ‘essential’ people such as LibDems. Oh yes I forgot Nick the Clegg did take the boat up the Thames with his wife fawning at him, but then again his limo drove along the bank as well taking his bag as that was too heavy for such an important person to carry himself. The Libbies foresee all transport being done by low carbon alternatives, which for you and I, read horse and cart or bicycle.

 

As the Chinese are building and buying cars like there is no tomorrow one can only wonder at the madness of a Party that thinks this will have the slightest effect on global air purity but will have the significant effect of pushing the UK further into the wastelands of nations. As a major car building nation it is eminently sensible to cut that off at a stroke. It is funny that not so long ago we all visualised China as the poor nation of millions of bike owners, soon that will be us while they have the cars.

 

They do state however that this is to be discussed at their Conference but for them to even suggest such a mad idea only shows how out of touch they actually are. If there was ever a reason to consign them to the dustbin of history then this must be up there among the top.

 

Presumably though it's just petrol and diesel vehicles? They're not talking about banning cars. If this stimulates manufacturers to make very efficient electric cars and greatly increase battery capacity we may all be very grateful when the oil runs out.

 

By 2040 who knows what battery technology may be? And of course we'll still be making cars, only the propulsion source will change.

 

Sometimes it's worth thinking about things more deeply and considering all options. How long is our oil going to last and how long will we be in thrall to Middle-East dictators?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As batteries get better and the possibilities of hydrogen power and fuel cell technology improve, and more importantly, gradually become more affordable why not no petrol or diesel in 27 years time - not as far fetched as one may think?

 

My petrol electric hybrid car will only run a mile or two on electric but the combination of the two fuel sources gives us an easily attainable 55 mpg - or over 60 if driven with less right foot enthusiasm - so why not a hydrogen or fuel cell electric hybrid?

 

I wouldn't rule it out - but let's hope more are UK designed and built and less are built and designed elsewhere in the world - China for example - who no doubt will quickly become a major source of automotive design and manufacture now that they have the taste for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Shale gas reserves in the US are enormous.

 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/45d75ad0-fe7f-11e2-97dc-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2bD7yNd9E

 

Fears that the energy is going to run out are unfounded - My car runs on LPG - I pay 70.9p per litre and Volvo and well as other manufacturers have developed CNG systems.

 

So no need to panic Frank

 

We have huge Shale gas reserves here as well.

 

There is also huge reserves of stuff called Methane Hydrate - "Ice that burns" Which is where methane gets trapped in a lattice of water molecules. Japan is moving ahead with its development now that Japan has little faith or stomach for Nuclear Power.

 

"The figure often cited, 700,000 trillion cubic feet of methane trapped in hydrates, is a staggering sum that would exceed the energy content of all oil, coal, and other natural gas reserves known on Earth."

 

So this Methane Hydrate could keep the lights on and us moving for a while yet !! (lol) (lol)

 

Not only is there more Methane hydrate than all the oil we have so far used but all the reserves we have not yet used AS WELL!!

 

China has huge reserves and is reckoned to be the world leader in developing the technology to extract it. For China - Methane would be a far cleaner fuel than the many coal fired power stations it is currently building to power its staggering GDP. What seems to be clever is that there is evidence that they are building in "dual fuel" capability such that if Shale reserves produce Natural Gas and/or they extract Methane from the Hydrated reserves, they will be able to convert the Power Stations they already have from dirty coal to clean NG or Methane.

 

Electric vehicles are a bit of a backwater development because the batteries are likely to be toxic for some while unless there is a dramatic technological advance. And the electricity has to be made somewhere - so you ride in an electric vehicle whilst a power station produces the power.

 

It is OK as a concept - until you realise that thanks to the like of Huhne and Davey we will have intermittent power from those crucifixes to bird and bat life such that NHS hospitals are having to ensure they have on site diesel power generators for when the power disappears. With Huhne in particular his honesty regarding speeding in a IC engined vehicle is not something that inspires confidence.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jun/28/nhs-hospitals-generate-power-blackout

 

I have not sure I have come across a more ludicrous concept of getting a Hospital to run a diesel generator to reduce demand on the power grid so that Carbon targets can be met !!!!! - is that barmy or what?

 

So - I would suggest that what the Lib Dems advocate is all very well and it is a good idea to look at alternatives but they (Lib Dems) hardly inspire confidence.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I accept that electric power has some advantages, even our local bus Company is putting 10 of them on the road, the range is still very low and unless someone finds a Holy Grail of batteries, is not likely to change too much. Even their very advanced bus will only do 70 miles on a charge. Therefore how does one get trucks which carry 95% of all our goods to actually achieve the results required. One could suggest the railways, after all they did it many years ago but that was before all the lines were pulled up and changed into building sites. Of course airplanes will no longer be allowed into the Uk so that kinda screws up a lot of things, especially if everyone else still uses them. Hallo Dark Ages.

 

As others have stated there is no shortage of fossil fuels for the next generation or 2, in fact maybe even longer. That will take us well into the next century when indeed technology may have alternatives, but in 27 years?????? Plus it is the usual mantra 'you WILL do as we tell you, or else'.

 

Unfortunately I suspect it is the usual case of the Libs putting their mouths into gear before the brain has been activated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Had Enough

Wow, I hadn't realised I was panicking! I just thought I was putting another point of view, which is that no one knows how battery technology will improve in the next twenty odd years and that we may well be charging our efficient electric cars from energy obtained from power stations running on shale gas or even nuclear power.

 

But, unlike others, I'm not an expert on everything under the sun unfortunately so I'll just have to wait and see!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Had Enough - 2013-08-06 7:33 PM

 

Wow, I hadn't realised I was panicking! I just thought I was putting another point of view, which is that no one knows how battery technology will improve in the next twenty odd years and that we may well be charging our efficient electric cars from energy obtained from power stations running on shale gas or even nuclear power.

 

But, unlike others, I'm not an expert on everything under the sun unfortunately so I'll just have to wait and see!

 

Wow - are you developing "insight" Frank? (lol)

 

Anyone that mentions oil running out is either panicked about it or misinformed.

 

As for my knowledge in this area - most people in finance understand the basics of the world fuel supply and the ramifications of short supply or a surplus.

 

It is for this reason that my considered opinion on the Alarmism of Peak Oil and Catastrophic Climate Change is a con.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Had Enough

The scientific world is split right down the middle on the merits or otherwise of developing alternative energy supplies.

 

They're fools, all they have to do is ask their local IFA! These guys know everything - really, they do! (lol) (lol) (lol)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few years ago Top Gear and Captain Slow did a really interesting piece on I think it was a Chrysler, hydrogen fuel cell/battery car that performed!

The Lib Dems may have jumped the gun, but as a matured petrolhead, I'm prepared to consider the eventual demise of the petrol engine. But only if nobody, regardless of wealth can have one. Can't see it happening, other than as a car for the "plebs" and that's not acceptable. 27 years? 2040, just numbers plucked out of the air.

As for the "con", I think not; but it will turn the whole world economy and financial system upside down if ever Europe, usa, china, india and south america agree a strategy to tackle climate change. And that's very scary.

when I was in my 20's the problem was a possible 3rd world war.

For my kids I think it's the above problem. I have faith in their ability to sort it. Once our generation is out of the way!

Just my opinion,

alan b

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CliveH - 2013-08-06 8:05 PM

 

 

- most people in finance understand the basics of the world fuel supply

 

 

 

They might know about the effect on prices of fluctuating supplies - but I'd rather rely on engineers and geologists when I want estimates of how long it's all going to last.

 

 

:-|

Link to comment
Share on other sites

snowie - 2013-08-06 8:38 PM

 

A few years ago Top Gear and Captain Slow did a really interesting piece on I think it was a Chrysler, hydrogen fuel cell/battery car that performed!

The Lib Dems may have jumped the gun, but as a matured petrolhead, I'm prepared to consider the eventual demise of the petrol engine. But only if nobody, regardless of wealth can have one. Can't see it happening, other than as a car for the "plebs" and that's not acceptable. 27 years? 2040, just numbers plucked out of the air.

As for the "con", I think not; but it will turn the whole world economy and financial system upside down if ever Europe, usa, china, india and south america agree a strategy to tackle climate change. And that's very scary.

when I was in my 20's the problem was a possible 3rd world war.

For my kids I think it's the above problem. I have faith in their ability to sort it. Once our generation is out of the way!

Just my opinion,

alan b

 

It would be sad to see the demise of vintage, veteran and even classic cars though would it not?

 

Silly sentimental old fool that I am!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Had Enough - 2013-08-06 8:23 PM

 

The scientific world is split right down the middle on the merits or otherwise of developing alternative energy supplies.

 

They're fools, all they have to do is ask their local IFA! These guys know everything - really, they do! (lol) (lol) (lol)

 

We know where the smart money goes. We listen and keep our ear to the ground, We take advice we are legally responsible for the advice we give. So we tend to get it right. The FOS figures on what the Banks get up to compared to IFA's says it all.

 

That is why I for one can recognise bull when we see it.

 

It is very simple Frank - in order for China/Korea/Malaysia to make the widgits that go into the cameras you flog, the factories need power. If that power runs out then it all grinds to a halt. China needs cheap clean power - and it is sitting on oodles of it.

 

If the financial world relied on what the likes of Ed Davey and Chris Huhne said as a predictor of future events we would be bust in a fortnight. Once again your appeal to the political classes as some sort of "authority" is surprising.

 

What is not surprising is once again - rather than saying "that is interesting Clive" - "what makes you say that?" - and that would lead to a sensible discussion - you have another dig at IFA's.

 

Which underlines a fair few points about you emotional wellbeing.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Had Enough
malc d - 2013-08-06 8:50 PM

 

CliveH - 2013-08-06 8:05 PM

 

 

- most people in finance understand the basics of the world fuel supply

 

 

 

They might know about the effect on prices of fluctuating supplies - but I'd rather rely on engineers and geologists when I want estimates of how long it's all going to last.

 

 

:-|

 

And one thing we can guarantee is that it isn't going to last forever so it does seem eminently sensible to me that the sooner we explore alternatives the better.

 

Science seems to develop exponentially if that's the correct word, in that in the last ten years we made more progress that we did in the previous thirty and in the next ten years we'll make even more.

 

Who knows how battery or fuel cell technology will develop? We all know about shale gas but is it practicable to put it in cars? What may be practicable is to use it for power stations which will allow us to charge our cars with batteries that in 2040 may take us 1000 miles before recharging.

 

But for me the biggest advantage of reducing our dependence on fossil fuels is that it means that we will no longer be in thrall to the oil sheiks.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tracker - 2013-08-06 8:51 PM

 

snowie - 2013-08-06 8:38 PM

 

A few years ago Top Gear and Captain Slow did a really interesting piece on I think it was a Chrysler, hydrogen fuel cell/battery car that performed!

The Lib Dems may have jumped the gun, but as a matured petrolhead, I'm prepared to consider the eventual demise of the petrol engine. But only if nobody, regardless of wealth can have one. Can't see it happening, other than as a car for the "plebs" and that's not acceptable. 27 years? 2040, just numbers plucked out of the air.

As for the "con", I think not; but it will turn the whole world economy and financial system upside down if ever Europe, usa, china, india and south america agree a strategy to tackle climate change. And that's very scary.

when I was in my 20's the problem was a possible 3rd world war.

For my kids I think it's the above problem. I have faith in their ability to sort it. Once our generation is out of the way!

Just my opinion,

alan b

 

It would be sad to see the demise of vintage, veteran and even classic cars though would it not?

 

Silly sentimental old fool that I am!

 

We should be OK - if petrol becomes non-viable CNG , LPG (which can easily be made from Methane) can be used)

 

What I find unbelievable is that in order to reduce our Carbon emissions old coal fired power stations are being converted to run on wood pellets. There is not enough forest in the UK so we now import wood from the USA 8-)

 

So forests are destroyed and the wood shipped across the Atlantic so we can say

 

"Aren't we good! - we have reduced our Carbon emissions - Ed Davey will be pleased"

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Had Enough
CliveH - 2013-08-06 8:59 PM

 

 

We know where the smart money goes. We listen and keep our ear to the ground, We take advice we are legally responsible for the advice we give. So we tend to get it right. The FOS figures on what the Banks get up to compared to IFA's says it all.

 

That is why I for one can recognise bull when we see it.

 

 

You're a genius Clive! ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Had Enough
Tracker - 2013-08-06 8:51 PM

 

It would be sad to see the demise of vintage, veteran and even classic cars though would it not?

 

Silly sentimental old fool that I am!

 

Don't worry, you'll be dead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

malc d - 2013-08-06 8:50 PM

 

CliveH - 2013-08-06 8:05 PM

 

 

- most people in finance understand the basics of the world fuel supply

 

 

 

They might know about the effect on prices of fluctuating supplies - but I'd rather rely on engineers and geologists when I want estimates of how long it's all going to last.

 

 

:-|

 

Malc - can I refer you to the FT article I posted about and linked too earlier.

 

It explains a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Had Enough - 2013-08-06 9:09 PM

 

CliveH - 2013-08-06 8:59 PM

 

 

We know where the smart money goes. We listen and keep our ear to the ground, We take advice we are legally responsible for the advice we give. So we tend to get it right. The FOS figures on what the Banks get up to compared to IFA's says it all.

 

That is why I for one can recognise bull when we see it.

 

 

You're a genius Clive! ;-)

 

You are not the first to realise this :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Had Enough - 2013-08-06 9:10 PM

 

Tracker - 2013-08-06 8:51 PM

 

It would be sad to see the demise of vintage, veteran and even classic cars though would it not?

 

Silly sentimental old fool that I am!

 

Don't worry, you'll be dead.

 

Gee thanks Frank - that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me!

 

Or if not dead probably far too old to drive safely on the roads - but I might have one of they turbocharged granny racer buggy thingies that hurtle along pavements and through shops scattering youngsters as they go - oh such fun!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...