mike 202 Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 The row over Gibraltar seems to be hotting up. I hope that Spanish loyalist hot heads do not see us as a valid target to vent their upset over UK stance over Gib. Seems the Spanish may well seek Argentina's alliance even though this situation and the Falklands are not the same issue but both over sovreignty. An extract from the Mail, Madrid stepped up border controls, which caused lengthy traffic queues, and suggested a 50 Euro fee could be applied to every vehicle entering or leaving the British territory. A Downing Street spokesman called Spain's actions "disproportionate and politically motivated". Speaking about potential legal action, he said: "If we go down this route, we would press upon the EU the need to pursue this with a matter of urgency." It is not clear what the legal options are, the spokesman added, saying it would be up to the EU to explain what any possible sanctions would be. Anyone, especially in Spain got any comments ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 A severe case of double, or even treble, standards perhaps? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10235205/The-battle-over-Ceuta-Spains-African-Gibraltar.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I doubt you will see any 'repercussions' in Spain unless the Spanish Government order the Guardia Civil to star targetting UK vehicles, which is unlikely. As so much of the Spanish economy is dependent on tourism, and the UK supply a large chunk, then i do not think the locals will be happy to see their livelyhoods disappear. Even in the Gibraltar situation it is the Spanish who are suffering the most as they work in Gib and need to cross every day. If the EU starts impoising fines then even if they are not paid the Spanish will suffer as they need bailouts. I am sure the majority of the Spaniards would cheerfully like to see their Government drop the idea and concentrate on matters more important. It is all sabre rattling to cover shortcomings within Spain. As for Argentina getting involved that is not likely to amount to more than a tin of beans as they have no say in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 If they close the border, the Gibraltarians will just employ Moroccans to do the work as they did before, so it'll be the Spanish workers who will ultimately lose out *-)................strikes me as a bit of sabre rattling to distract the population from their other problems :-|......... Funny how they conveniently forget about Ceuta >:-)......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simian Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 The enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla were established by Spain before the nation state of Morocco came into being. That's the basis on which the Spanish regard the 2 issues not to be compared on questions and disputes of sovereignty. When the frontier was last closed the hinterland to Gib (el campo) did suffer badly economically, as would be expected, but there was no obvious backlash against Brit touristsand and in the Spanish diaspora most of the general population couldn't have cared less as I recall. Life certainly changed in Gib. apart from air travel the only way out was the ferry to Tangiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Whether Gibraltar would suffer financially is a moot point, its certainly more affluent than it was in the mid 70's, and I suspect shutting the border again would be just an inconvenience as all the wealth now days appears to be generated via online gambling and as a tax haven :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simian Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Not quite all the wealth derived from gambling and tax avoidance practices think mini City of London and you'd not be far off the mark. Add in tobacco smuggling, services of many commercial lawyers conversant in the ways of UK and Spanish law, ship bunkering services, cruise liner hosting, all nice little earners. Not to forget all the ex pat Financial Advisers and International Accountancy Book Cookers. Just renewing my van insurance comparison sites and note the quoters including Saga, Admiral offshoots, Hastings etc with reg. offices in Gib. Such info. usually in the footnote smallprint. Now if Gib. were to go belly up these companies would be inconvenienced.....they'd have to arrange for someone to remove the brass plaques! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Dave225 - 2013-08-12 4:17 PM . It is all sabre rattling to cover shortcomings within Spain. Don't fall for that one. The UK establishment might not have any useful qualifications but they sure know how to tell a whopper. Look how they lined up all their ducks for the Iraq war. Britain spends over three times as much on its military as Spain, and has Nuclear Weapons, unlike Spain. If anyone is sabre rattling to cover shortcomings its Cameron, looking for a Falklands Factor before the next election. Gibraltar produces next to nothing and lives off the British and Spanish taxpayer. Its just a parasite to both Britain and Spain. Thats why Gibraltarians vote to keep it that way, whilst the British Taxpayer who is subsidising them gets no vote. And its the most motorhome Unfriendly country in Europe. It would certainly be better for motorhomers to visit if it were Spanish!!! link added: http://www.channel5.com/shows/gibraltar-britain-in-the-sun/clips/trailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simian Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I don't blame the Gibraltarians for voting for the status quo in order to maintain a certain standard of living. They're not stupid, to vote otherwise would find them reduced to the conditions found immediately over the border. Parasitical, yes- in the same sense as to be found in the City of London only with greater justification (if that's the word) as there is no practical alternative. As for motorhome unfriendliness, well that's due mainly to the fact that spare road space, in fact any spare space is at an extreme premium. Due to the narrowness of the roads there are many motorhome no entry signs, just one road blocked on the Rock results in total gridlock and when this happens it's best described by some as hell on earth. Not so much motorhome unfriendly more a case of sensible practicalities. Motorhomes are not allowed to stay overnight (officially) often obeyed in the breech rather than the observance. A blind eye used to be turned to overnight stays on Safeway/Morissons carpark until store management pulled the plug. Caravans are prohibited from entry to Gib. so it's not all bad news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 simian - 2013-08-13 12:20 PM I don't blame the Gibraltarians for voting for the status quo in order to maintain a certain standard of living. They're not stupid, to vote otherwise would find them reduced to the conditions found immediately over the border. Parasitical, yes- in the same sense as to be found in the City of London only with greater justification (if that's the word) as there is no practical alternative. As for motorhome unfriendliness, well that's due mainly to the fact that spare road space, in fact any spare space is at an extreme premium. Due to the narrowness of the roads there are many motorhome no entry signs, just one road blocked on the Rock results in total gridlock and when this happens it's best described by some as hell on earth. Not so much motorhome unfriendly more a case of sensible practicalities. Motorhomes are not allowed to stay overnight (officially) often obeyed in the breech rather than the observance. A blind eye used to be turned to overnight stays on Safeway/Morissons carpark until store management pulled the plug. Caravans are prohibited from entry to Gib. so it's not all bad news. There is a nice big new car park at Europa point ;-).....................and a new road on the East side of the rock :D..................as I discovered once I driven through the town *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 simian - 2013-08-13 12:20 PM spare road space, in fact any spare space is at an extreme premium. If we gave Gibraltar back to Spain the space problem would be solved as a stroke. The military, the customs, and the tax avoidance companies would be gone. I saw hundreds of white Toyota Land cruisers parked in Gib (thats another of their tax avoidance scams) Utilities like rubish disposal, water, power plants etc could be re sited on the Spanish side where there is plenty of spare room. It would be better for everyone except the parasites. If Gibraltarians are really British why aren't they paying British taxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simian Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Peter James - 2013-08-15 9:48 AM simian - 2013-08-13 12:20 PM spare road space, in fact any spare space is at an extreme premium. If we gave Gibraltar back to Spain the space problem would be solved as a stroke. The military, the customs, and the tax avoidance companies would be gone. I saw hundreds of white Toyota Land cruisers parked in Gib (thats another of their tax avoidance scams) Utilities like rubish disposal, water, power plants etc could be re sited on the Spanish side where there is plenty of spare room. It would be better for everyone except the parasites. If Gibraltarians are really British why aren't they paying British taxes? The military are not represented on the Rock in any meaningful numbers these days, this is precisely why the Gibraltarians have had to find other ways of making money other than servicing the services as it were. The British Government didn't fill the financial breech. Why aren't they paying British taxes? They are not legally obliged to that's why. In much the same way as Google for instance pays all it's legally obliged to. Be stupid in extremis to pay what you don't have to, would it not? Gibraltarians do pay income tax on their individual incomes to their Government (Exchequer) most are PAYE much like here, and for similar services. The Toyotas are United Nations purchases, perhaps they're working some kind of tax avoidance or tax evasion fiddle, you need to take that issue up with Ban Ki Moon LOL. The carparking at Europa Point is OK if you feel obliged to enter Gib in your van, eg for cheap fuel. The option is to park on the Blue Meter Zone or No Mans Land or in front of the Sports Complex on the Spanish side of the Frontier, avoids the customs and queuing hassles. No Mans Land and the Sports are not always available, depends on whether the on-duty Guardia Civil Officer has a headache or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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