French Breath Tests

[longtemps]

Just read on a French web site that fines are due to be introduced in November for failing to carry the breath test kit. Any one heard anything to the contrary?

[Tracker]

I've no idea as they seem to be blowing hot and cold in alternate months!

 

For what they cost why risk the wrath of a cantankerous Gendarme by not carrying a pack?

[Brambles]

Mar 08, 2013

France drops breath test fines

France has finally dropped plans to fine motorists who do not have a breath test kit in their vehicles – but has left in place the law obliging them to carry the kits.

 

Under the law introduced by the Sarkozy government last year, drivers and motorcyclists faced an €11 fine for not carrying a breath test kit. The law, due to come into force on 1 July, 2012, was delayed until November due to the shortage of kits. This November date was then further extended to 1 March.

 

However, new Interior Minister Manuel Valls announced that he was sceptical of the value of the kits and asked the Conseil National de la Sécurité Routière to have another look at the plan.

 

The CNSR said on February 13 that it recommended the carrying of a breath test in vehicles but in a decree published on Friday, 1 March, in the Journal Officiel the government annulled the sanction of the €11 fine.

 

 

[Retread24800]

Absolutely Brambles and to stop the arguments here is the official link

Just to make a total mockery of the whole sorry story they announced at the same time that the warning signs that a speed camera was ahead are going to be reinstated, "Dave" couldn't do any better. :D

 

[Derek Uzzell]

longtemps - 2013-08-27 10:22 PM

 

Just read on a French web site that fines are due to be introduced in November for failing to carry the breath test kit. Any one heard anything to the contrary?

 

I suspect that the "...fines are due to be introduced in November.." statement you read on a French website relates to November 2012. This (as Brambles states) was a planned introduction-date for 'fining' that was subsequently postponed to March 2013 and then put on indefinite hold.

 

Suggest you reread what's on the French website and, if you find that the date for fining being quoted there is indeed November 2013, that you say which website the information is on and (if possible) provide a link to the November-date statement.

 

Retread24800 has provided a link that defines the current legal position. It is still legally required that a motorist driving in France carries a breathalyser in his/her vehicle (as the original law has not been repealed), but there is no penalty (ie. fine) if a motorist fails to do this.

 

It seems that the idea (unique to France I think) of motorists 'self testing' their alcohol level is now dead. However, if Sarkozy returns to power (and this now seems reasonably likely) I guess there's a chance it might be revived.

 

[pkc]

Anyone want to buy two kits going very cheap. Hic! :-S

Second thoughts I'll keep them, they may change the law again this November.

[chick2]

There is no need whatsoever to buy a Breathalyser Kit to travel around France.

 

The only reason they are still advertised is that a group of money grabbing companies and individuals saw a way of fleecing the Public with inflated prices when the French first started to think about implementing a breathalyser law and they bought the Kits in bulk.

 

Those people are now stuck with Kits that are useless because they have a relatively short shelf and are totally unnecessary.

 

Do not bother to buy one unless you like wasting money - and I'm sure your favourite Charity would appreciate any spare monies that you have!

[sshortcircuit]

Have been aware that breathalyser law abandoned some time ago but good to have confirmation. I bought a kit a couple of years ago out of a Carrefour for about €3 and they expire in 2014 so no big loss.

[Derek Uzzell]

chick2 - 2013-08-28 4:12 PM

 

...The only reason they are still advertised is that a group of money grabbing companies and individuals saw a way of fleecing the Public with inflated prices when the French first started to think about implementing a breathalyser law and they bought the Kits in bulk.

 

Those people are now stuck with Kits that are useless because they have a relatively short shelf and are totally unnecessary...

 

The reason that breathalysers can still be accurately advertised as being legally required to be carried by motorists driving in France is because they ARE legally required to be carried by motorists driving in France.

 

The law demanding that (suitable) breathalysers be carried by motorists driving in France is still on the French statute books and, should French police wish to stop a motorist and demand that a breathalyser be produced, the police are empowered to do this. Failure to produce the requisite breathalyser is still an offence, though there's no penalty for failing to do so.

 

The French breathalyser exercise was a fiasco and the way it was managed inevitably resulted in retailers ending up with supplies of breathalysers that nobody was interested in buying. Those retailers will continue to advertise the fact that a breathalyser is a legal motoring requirement in France (and it is) but (surely unsurprisingly?) may choose not to mention the 'no penalty' factor.

 

When the law was introduced the price of suitable breathalysers was minimal and I had little difficulty at that time in obtaining a 2-breathalyser kit from a French supermarket for a couple of euros. There were problems in lots of areas where supply failed to meet demand, but that was predictable. I've read claims that one of the reasons 'fining' for not carrying a breathalyser was put on indefinite hold was because the price of the kits had become massively inflated, but I don't believe it - if people really wanted a fairly cheap breathalyser kit it was always possible to obtain one - not necessarily easily, but possible.

 

Whether a breathalyser kit is "totally unnecessary" is a matter of opinion. These kits had been marketed in France for years, long before the French law was introduced, often sold at autoroute service-stations and aimed at truckers.

 

A summary of the current situation is on this recent forum thread

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/French-Breathalyser-Law/32003/

 

[Retread24800]

This has been a totally Gallic reaction to a flawed piece of legislation, Here in France Profond There hasn't been a sniff of a breathalyser, not in LeClerc, Auchan, or Carrefour at least.

Fortunately There are means in France to ignore a law which is unpopular and one is to reduce the Amend to zero which is what has happened here, the other is to fail to put into place any means of policing the rules and regulations, i.e H & S from Brussels. This is in sharp contrast to the British attitude where vast resources are put into place resulting in a gang of state funded jobsworths and lawyers strangling all and every initiative H & S, Anti discrimination, Human rights etc. etc .

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Retread24800 - 2013-08-29 11:45 AM

 

...Here in France Profond There hasn't been a sniff of a breathalyser, not in LeClerc, Auchan, or Carrefour at least...

 

This was a July 2012 piece about the French breathalyser law

 

http://www.60millions-mag.com/actualites/articles/la_grande_embrouille_des_alcootests_obligatoires

 

You'll note this paragraph

 

Approvisionnement régulier des supermarchés

 

Selon le président d’I-Tests, il est actuellement possible de se fournir dans les grandes surfaces telles que Carrefour, E. Leclerc ou Auchan : « Elles sont régulièrement approvisionnées, explique Daniel Orgeval, même si ce n’est pas toujours à hauteur de ce qu’elles souhaiteraient. »

 

Carrefour confirme que tous ses magasins reçoivent des alcootests, mais que ceux-ci partent très vite. « Il n’existe que deux fabricants d’éthylotests chimiques certifiés “NF”, note le porte-parole du distributeur, et ils ont du mal à répondre à toutes les demandes. »"

 

While I can understand your Francophile attitude, I do ask myself whether a UK government would have made such an almighty and predictable cock-up - and let's not forget the confusing limp-wristed French policy relating to GPS-based speed-camera warning devices.

 

There are lots of things I don't much like about the UK but, if I moved to France, I'm certain there would be lots of things I'd dislike about that country.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Derek Uzzell - 2013-08-29 1:57 PM

 

While I can understand your Francophile attitude, I do ask myself whether a UK government would have made such an almighty and predictable cock-up - and let's not forget the confusing limp-wristed French policy relating to GPS-based speed-camera warning devices.

 

There are lots of things I don't much like about the UK but, if I moved to France, I'm certain there would be lots of things I'd dislike about that country.

 

Yes, could you imagine the howls on here if they did try to introduce 'em? ("..rip off Britain...blah blah blah..").

 

As for this constant slagging off of H&S, maybe we should revert back to not wearing seat belts then?..or using child safety seats?...nor crash helmets?..safety goggles?..hard hats?...and what about all those troublesome build regs'. eh?.....they're nothing but jobs for the boys..

...after all, what's the worst that can happen?... *-)

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-23860348

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22364891

 

...yeah, damn all you UK "jobsworths" *-)

[Retread24800]

pepe63 - 2013-08-29 3:25 PM .yeah, damn all you UK "jobsworths" *-)

 

It wasn't meant too personally, didn't realise you were a jobsworth.

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

Retread24800 - 2013-08-29 2:32 PM

 

It wasn't meant too personally, didn't realise you were a jobsworth.

Did I say I was a "jobsworth"?..No..I didn't...Like many people, I've worked on rough-ar*ed engineering/fabrication shop floors all my life..and when you've seen blokes lose fingers, fall from poorly designed ladders/scaffolds(used because they was deemed to be the "industry standard") and one work mate crushed to death by a falling dustcart hopper, you tend to get a bit tired of folk(the bulk of which, probably only risked a paper cut during their working life!) rubbishing Health & Safety improvements >:-( ..nothing personal you understand....

[Retread24800]

pepe63 - 2013-08-29 3:52 PM

Retread24800 - 2013-08-29 2:32 PM

 

It wasn't meant too personally, didn't realise you were a jobsworth.

Did I say I was a "jobsworth"?..No..I didn't...Like many people, I've worked on rough-ar*ed engineering/fabrication shop floors all my life..and when you've seen blokes lose fingers, fall from poorly designed ladders/scaffolds(used because they was deemed to be the "industry standard") and one work mate crushed to death by a falling dustcart hopper, you tend to get a bit tired of folk(the bulk of which, probably only risked a paper cut during their working life!) rubbishing Health & Safety improvements >:-( ..nothing personal you understand....

 

Sounds as if that works should have been closed years ago by the Factory Inspectorate, only speaking as an ex Foundry worker mind............

H & S has gone from Best practice to a tick box regime. How can Britain survive when H&S pull the plug on a firework display because some drunken moron may be so entranced that he will jump into the river? The Nanny state, what happened to personal freedom and responsibility, don't matter, sue the Council if you can find a lifting paver, or a pothole or slip in a puddle........Total madness and made even worse by the Ambulance chasing lawyers who will trawl deprived areas looking for Clients, no win no fee.yeah like I believe that.

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

Perhaps I should just clarify that all of those incidents didn't all happen at the same factory... (lol)

 

..if it had, I think we would've probably razed it to the ground ourselves.... (lol)

 

But you up bring up a good point, the reason things have morphed into these half baked "tick box" exercises, is because folk have put in half baked claims....it's a vicious circle... :-S

 

(..I recall a thread on here a long while back, where someone having walked into a sign and bumped their head, were asking if there was a "regulation height" for signs, presumably because they were thinking of claiming...I suggested that perhaps the council should install a "Beware of the sign" sign... )

 

;-)

[Brian Kirby]

chick2 - 2013-08-28 4:12 PM

 

There is no need whatsoever to buy a Breathalyser Kit to travel around France. ...............

sshortcircuit - 2013-08-28 4:29 PM

 

Have been aware that breathalyser law abandoned some time ago but good to have confirmation. ......................

Sorry chaps, but I think you are both wrong on this. The law requiring these testers to be carried has not been repealed: to the best of my knowledge it still stands. Neither has the penalty been rescinded, its introduction has merely been postponed pending further consideration.

 

This means, to my understanding, that under French law there is still a legal obligation to carry at least one unused breath tester. Should you fail to do so, it is only the present on the spot fine that will not be applied. So, whereas enforcement presents a present problem for the authorities (to the extent that they may not bother even to ask if you have one), you will still be breaking an extant law if you fail to comply.

 

The French police have an alternative power to fining: they can "verbalise" you. This can result in considerable delay, as the officers have the right to expect you to listen to, and to have understood, what they are telling you, which they may spell out at whatever length they choose, and that you will adopt a suitably receptive demeanor while they do so.

 

I'm not seeking to create panic in the ranks: I just think the present position is being over-stated in the above remarks. Given the "wrong" circumstances, in which you may have made some minor infringement, you may be stopped and may then find you are asked if you have an ethylotest, as well as having your vehicle, and your paperwork, minutely examined for any defect whatever. They can muck you around royally, if they think you have given them have cause, so I would say just don't give them the inch that just may turn into a mile.

 

None of this is likely, but I have twice been stopped in France without what I consider due cause. Once exiting the last A26 autoroute toll station before Calais, and once some years back as a passenger with a French friend, exiting the car park at Chambord. The first incident involved a long delay while they pored over his documents and then decided all was well after all, saluted and dismissed him (spitting venom once out of earshot!), the second was just a quick check for illegals! They have the power to stop and search if they think something is not as it should be, and they are not obliged to first tell you why. They are also inclined to carry guns, so getting stroppy and trying to argue legal points is not that helpful!

 

You will do as you choose, but a postponed fine does equate to a repealed law. So be careful out there! :-)

 

Apologies to Derek whose post saying much the same I saw after posting the above.

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2013-08-29 4:46 PM

 

...The French police have an alternative power to fining: they can "verbalise" you. This can result in considerable delay, as the officers have the right to expect you to listen to, and to have understood, what they are telling you, which they may spell out at whatever length they choose, and that you will adopt a suitably receptive demeanor while they do so...

 

My understanding is that (French police-wise) the word "verbalisation" does not equate to the police letting someone off with a serious bollocking. It's really synonymous with the person being 'booked' by the police and - in the case of the breathalyser law - would result in the person being given an €11 on-the-spot fine. The word's usage in that way is shown here http://tinyurl.com/o2xtd22 http://tinyurl.com/aehr788

 

Larousse translates "verbalisation" as "reporting petty offences" and the word often turns up in French motorhome magazines in letters complaining about parking fines (eg. "I came back from the beach and found a 'verbilisation' notice on my camping-car's windscreen.") I suspect this use of the word derives from "procès-verbal" as defined here:

 

http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/procès-verbal/63350

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks Derek. I had never checked the actual meaning, and had assumed the "verbal" bit signified a verbal warning rather than a formal written report and possible fine. I found a further reference on the net that claimed the origin was a procedure introduced to allow illiterate officers to give their reports to magistrates verbally (the proces verbal). Presumably quite some time ago, but it may explain the apparent contradiction!

 

That explains why so many French campers get jumpy at the prospect of being "verbalised", which I took to mean told off. I'd always thought they were just over-reacting, probably as a result of past experiences.

 

What I really had in mind was that tendency of the French police to "pull" folk who arouse their suspicions, and not so much bollock them, as make it very clear, at considerable length, who really has the power, and the uniform to go with it!