starvin marvin Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Greetings from the home for the terminally bewildered. Does anyone have experience of problems with the above? I've had the whole instrument cluster changed (under guarantee) and more recently the fuel tank sender unit has been replaced. However I still have an unreliable gauge that performs ok until showing half full and then the needle falls away rapidly before climbing back up again for a while before repeating the process, whilst the needle is lower as fuel is being burnt off. When it comes to refilling, the needle never goes fully to full. Yesterday the gauge was showing less than half full, (the van had not been used since early August) so I refilled expecting to put in say £40 to completely fill, I was surprised that at £13, fuel was running onto the forecourt! My garage is as puzzled as me, and suggested I try a M/H forum, to see if this is a common(ish) fault. So over to you guys and gals. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Sounds like an earth fault, try PM'ing Nick (Euroserv) to ask for advice. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Keithl - 2013-09-17 12:10 PM Sounds like an earth fault, try PM'ing Nick (Euroserv) to ask for advice. Keith. Is he the Fiat expert? Don't recognise the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Hello, Expert here. This is a bit puzzling. Problems with fuel guages are quite common on 2002 onwards Ducato's but non-existent on vehicles before that. You say that you have had the sender changed. This is the combined sender and fuel lift pump under the cab floor and inside the tank; changing this has always solved the problem! It is possible that the float has been twisted a bit while inserting it (it is quite awkward to do) or that the connecting plug is dirty or not attached properly. If none of these are the case, we are in no man's land here because there have never been any faults with the display on the dash. My only other suggestion would be a poor earth close to the driver's side fuse box but this would tend to affect other guages like the temperature too. Please keep us posted. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Thanks for the reply, I shall get it booked in again, probably for early Nov, to tie in with other things. I shall get back to as soon as. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 euroserv - 2013-09-17 4:19 PM Hello, Expert here. This is a bit puzzling. Problems with fuel guages are quite common on 2002 onwards Ducato's but non-existent on vehicles before that. You say that you have had the sender changed. This is the combined sender and fuel lift pump under the cab floor and inside the tank; changing this has always solved the problem! It is possible that the float has been twisted a bit while inserting it (it is quite awkward to do) or that the connecting plug is dirty or not attached properly. If none of these are the case, we are in no man's land here because there have never been any faults with the display on the dash. My only other suggestion would be a poor earth close to the driver's side fuse box but this would tend to affect other guages like the temperature too. I've now booked the van in for early Nov. One ques, when you say there was no problem pre 2002 the van was first registered on 1/11/02, does this make it a crossover model? 2nd ques does the V5 show any info that would make it clear when the base vehicle actually made? Many thanks Please keep us posted. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The change-over was for the 2002 model year and the first UK vans arrived in early 2002. They had plastic headlamps and a new grille in black with a silver surround. Although theoretically the fuel tank sender was the same unit used since 1999 model year (when the JTD engine first appeared) and was still the same until 2006; we have never had any problems with the earlier vehicles. If you want to know the build date of your vehicle please send your chassis number by private message. I can tell you from our parts computer. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstrel Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 We had this problem for a little while in our old motorhome. We managed it by making sure we knew what mileage we had when we filled up the tank, and refilled well within the usual range - say 200 miles. The problem sorted itself out on that trip. Incidentally, last week we spent just over £100 on diesel for the first time, the new motorhome has a larger tank. That was a bit of a shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Well here we are, back in the UK from much warmer climes. Van is booked in tomorrow to try and get this damn useless fuel gauge/lifter cum sender unit sorted, will report back in a few days, fingers crossed. If anyone out there has anything more likely than Euroserv(Nick) suggests. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I have a 2003, my fuel gauge seems to work until it gets to a quarter full, then doesn't move, not an ideal solution I know but I fill to the brim reset the mileage trip then always fill again after 250 miles, if you find a solution I'd be pleased to hear about it. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I like Euroserv's idea of the float being distorted. I had a lot to do with tank floats on aircraft many years ago and know that fitting errors can occur. With modern methods it may be that they are positioned by robots and if not sitting in the robots grip accurately they could be bent. Sounds crazy perhaps but I've watched these robots move and their speed is amazing. They allow for no mistakes. And if fitted by hand (from a box full) is the fitter wise to a bent one, I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 The Op does not make clear if this is a recent problem, ours always worked fine until on one occasion on filling it was obvious I was almost running on fumes, despite thinking I'd still got a quarter tank, perhaps he can tell us if it is "new" problem, if so, like mine it must be something else you would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-11-10 2:38 PM The Op does not make clear if this is a recent problem, ours always worked fine until on one occasion on filling it was obvious I was almost running on fumes, despite thinking I'd still got a quarter tank, perhaps he can tell us if it is "new" problem, if so, like mine it must be something else you would think. As I said, the sender unit has been changed over a year ago because of this problem. The problem of the fuel gauge not resoonding correctly was "corrected" by a complete instrument cluster change, under warranty. Except this did not do the job, so the sender unit eas changed.....same problem. I'm afraid I dispair at the quality of Fiat electrical components, generally they are cheap and nasty, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I would suggest driving it a short distance with the fuel cap off (obviously not with a full tank of fuel). If the sender float assembly is not bent or sticking then there could be a problem with the fuel tank breather. If the tank becomes over pressurised or for that matter, under pressurised by returning fuel from the common rail this could distort the readings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wints Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Vacuum in the tank, that's interesting. My fuel gauge occassionally goes walkabout (2002 fiat 2.8 jtd), and sometimes (make that usually) when filling up with diesel I get an inrush of air through the filler cap. Is there a breather on the fuel tank ? Maybe mine's blocked. Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 As far as I can remember on filling mine there is always a rush of air sucked in when I take off my filler cap, you've got me wondering now. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 euroserv - 2013-11-11 10:49 AM I would suggest driving it a short distance with the fuel cap off (obviouis keenly not with a full tank of fuel). If the sender float assembly is not bent or sticking then there could be a problem with the fuel tank breather. If the tank becomes over pressurised or for that matter, under pressurised by returning fuel from the common rail this could distort the readings. Thanks for the response, as I said the van is now with BT Fleet, and the manager, who I've known for many years is keen to sort the issue out. Earlier on in this thread, you asked about me senting you the chassis number....did I do that? and if so did you get it? Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I don't see a connection between pressure in the tank and an electricaly activated fuel gauge reading that is derived from a gadget that floats on fuel. Floats in fuel tanks used to be a solid piece of round cork in my early days of aircraft repairs. They are probably tubular now and plastic. This one may well have a leak and be holding fuel, this would change the weight of the float causing it to be submersible. If the float is tubular and plastic and holding fuel it would be partly buoyant and erratic, alternatively moving up and down when it chose to. If the density of the float is greater than the fuel surrounding it, it will sink. You say when the tank is half full the needle then drops away. This indicates the float is SINKING. You say that you expected to pay £40 and it was £13. This indicates the float has SUNK. (Hope you liked that !!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 Thanks, once again for the replies, I've passed these onto the garage to mull over. I'll report back as soon as I hear from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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