Vantage M/H

[Pete-B]

Hi,

We've been to the Lincoln show today and although we had no intention of changing our Bessie I couldn't help admiring the Vantage Neo van conversion. The quality and finish of these vans looked very good and in our opinion much better than their direct competition. We just wondered if anyone has had any experience, good or bad of them.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Have a look at threads with pictures regards poor quality of insulation over on MHF

[Mel B]

Nice vans, but watch the costs - the standard ones don't have cruise control, cab air con, electric step etc so by the time you've added on the stuff that comes as standard on some other manufacturers' vans, they can be quite expensive.

[david lloyd]

Not at all impressed with their selling method either - instead of relying on the quality of their own product we were simply treated to derogatory remarks about other manufacturers.

 

David

 

[quickweh]

Can't let the negative posts go without comment. As a satisfied owner I am more than happy with my Neo. Vantage have been very successful in growing their company and you do not do that by building poor quality products. I have just returned from the Dusseldorf Salon and saw only one van conversion with a similar layout to the Neo and that was Karman. Superb build quality but with a big price tag. The post by Mel B is very fair, take a base vehicle and add the bits that you need. The result is a mid priced van that is very solidly built. Regarding insulation we use our van all year round and would agree that panel vans cannot match coachbuilts for insulation I cannot agree that Vantage are poor in this respect. We took great care in looking at panel van insulation and some were truly awful, on some cases no sidewall insulation behind the wardrobe for example. The rear doors are the weak point in panel van insulation so designs that remove them (IH) or build a bulkhead at the back are the best solutions but the bulkhead results in a layout that we do not like. Vantage build a product that suits some people but is clearly a "Marmite" one for some. I like Marmite. :D

[Guest JudgeMental]

well photographs dont lie, and if you look at MHF threads you will clearly see the paper thin insulation used in construction and the disatisfaction of owners.....You can buy Karmann vans with circa 17% discounts in Belgium,on top of the 19% currency advantage at the moment. Have yet to see price of Euro vans anywhere near the prices small producers charge here, mainly because you have to pay extra for everything, wheras in Germany for instance most come with "all in packet" *-)

 

My rear doors are properly sealed so no draughts.Adria like others know what they are doing....certainly would not like to lose the convenience either of rear doors...

[Derek Uzzell]

JudgeMental - 2013-09-22 6:36 AM

 

well photographs dont lie, and if you look at MHF threads you will clearly see the paper thin insulation used in construction and the disatisfaction of owners...

 

I've looked through the Vantage-related threads on MHF and, as far as I can make out, Vantage owners are generally pretty satisfied with their motorhomes. GOOGLE-searching on "motorhomefacts vantage" (omitting the quotes) should confirm that view.

 

It would have helped if you had provided a link to the relevant MHF 'insulation' thread, but I suspect it's this one:

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-140358-days0-orderasc-0.html

 

As I'm not a registered MHF member I can't see the photos there but, if Vantage is using "Thinsulate" for insulation, then the material will be thin. Thinsulate is expensive, but it's a very effective insulator and clean and straightforward to use, particularly when curved surfaces are involved.

 

As far as I'm aware Karmann currently has no UK agency which (even if Pete-B were prepared to self-import a LHD model from Belgium) has obvious implications regarding the warranty and any compulsory servicing conditions.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I don't see the point in linking MHF as unless registered ( I am) they can't see photos etc....so if they can't be assed registering I can't be assed linking. You found it easy enough Sherlock...

[grahamw]

Have also been to Lincoln Show and viewed the ever increasing number of panel van conversions that have recently arrived. I currently have a Vantage Sol and have been looking at the Vantage Neo as a replacement in the near future. The Sol has been an excellent van with no problems whatsoever. Interestingly Scot at Vantage still wants to know if you've had any problems as part of his general development plans. The van conversions are extremely well done and very durable. Not to every bodies liking with small areas covered with carpet material but that adds to the insulation for both warmth and sound which is a point usually ignored by those who are critical of the insulation used. I use the van all year and have never been cold in it. Having viewed the vans being built I can confidently say that the insulation is thorough and carefully applied.

 

On cost there is a concern and you need to examine in real detail the offering to decide whether it is worth the extra money. At Lincoln I was able to examine a wide number of vans from all over Europe. One van of German origin was cheaper than a Vantage Neo by some measure. But when you began to examine the detail you could see where corners had been cut. The German van I would describe as being 'engineered' rather than 'constructed'. Methods of assembly involved the use of fixings through the face of furniture and then covering the unsightly screw with a cover, cap or little self adhesive vinyl disc. As with covering a wound with sticking plaster it only hides the wound but doesn't conceal that it is there. Such constructional techniques are designed to allow assembly by relatively unskilled people on a fast moving production line. It has always intrigued me that such constructional techniques rarely find their way into more mainstream coachbuilt models in Germany and does seem to be reserved for the van conversion market. Some are better than others. Out of interest there were three identical versions of this particular German model on show. It was a model with a centrally positioned shower reaching across the van and enclosed with two sliding tambour doors. In two of the vehicles the right hand sliding tambour door refused completely to extend from its tightly wound retreat. This door in the third van would extend with a struggle but one could see with use and abrasion of the door against it channel that this too would suffer the same fate shortly. The forward facing seat in the front lounge offered poor support and only offered short lived comfort. This van was considerably cheaper than some of its UK counterparts and so it should be. I raise it as an example of how the devil is in the detail and how after close inspection digging deeper into your pocket may be a very wise decision.

 

Another UK van that caught my eye and many other people also was Auto-Trail's new V Line 600. Another example of how attention to detail and a good degree of innovation can produce an expensive van that still remains good value for money when you look under the skin. As always it's not without fault. The fridge for me is a little on the small side and I couldn't see anywhere to store bedding as underbunk storage seemed to be already spoken for.

 

Vantage do seem very busy and have become in just a few years one of the UK's largest van conversion specialists. You don't achieve that by producing vans that are poor value for money. You do it by producing vans that people enjoy, are good value and a customer service second to none. I gather he has three new front lounge models on the way and and a fully sealed GRP back-panel in lieu of rear doors as an option for customers who prefer that.

 

My experience with Vantage has been excellent but this doesn't mean that my next purchase will automatically be a Vantage. There is so much happening in the market that one would be unwise not to consider all options. However, it does mean that they will get automatic entry into my shortlist.

[dick GCT]

Very well put Graham.your post was excellent in its detail. Pete-B -- I too can recommend the Vantage Neo,having owned one for nearly 2 years. Very pleased with the build quality,also Vantage"s after sales service is second to none. You would not be disappointed if you changed you current "Bessie" for a Vantage Neo! Other people"s negative comments just show that we are all different and have different proirities when buying a m/home.

[Guest JudgeMental]

If your are happy with LHD vehicle, Europe offers incredible value compared to here, yes they are mass produced,but quality controlled, and offer economies of scale that can only be dreamed about here... No paper thin insulation or draughty doors or unhygienic carpet on the walls here, or extra for basics like electric steps and 50p door stops... europeans simply would not stand for it, and prices for a possl/globecar van start at around £30,000. Your money your choice...

 

you can see exactly what you are getting in this video. insulation and deep winter use at beginning and end of film.... they now come with 6 year warranty.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5H4m8B4bLY

 

[quickweh]

JudgeMental - 2013-09-22 6:36

 

My rear doors are properly sealed so no draughts.Adria like others know what they are doing....certainly would not like to lose the convenience either of rear doors...

 

Stumbled across this on MHF

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-101818-adria-twin-insulation.html

 

Had a good look at these in Dusseldorf, nicely made but exactly the same Fiat door seals.

[Guest JudgeMental]

quickweh - 2013-09-22 1:56 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-09-22 6:36

 

My rear doors are properly sealed so no draughts.Adria like others know what they are doing....certainly would not like to lose the convenience either of rear doors...

 

Stumbled across this on MHF

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-101818-adria-twin-insulation.html

 

Had a good look at these in Dusseldorf, nicely made but exactly the same Fiat door seals.

 

As for standard fiat, I haven't a clue except they work (pic below shows them)

 

the post you link to does not say what year van, adria twin was the first van conversion in 2004?.I never quoted adria as being the end and be all..far from it! Adria use the same thickness wall insulation as possl but on back doors in their wisdom they add insulation panels to doors interiors, this far from perfect and a weakness I have discussed on here previously when I discovered it fitting bike rack, but I did not buy a 4 season van this time (previous ones where)

 

We have slept in ours in the snow and it was fine..... I dont think adria vans top quality at all..but they are more than adequate and cheap. Best spring mattress in any van I have seen, good ambience especially lighting,100 fridge, 100 litre fresh and waste, 2x11kg gas, 2 big Heki, I can use the bathroom and sit in lounge without problems, which I could not manage comfortably at Dusseldorf in many of the vans, and as we are fair weather campers in the most part why I went with it...nearly 2.5 years later and its still OK with nothing falling off.... I don't get precious about this stuff, all about value for money and that distinctly lacking at home. if I wanted real quality I would buy La Strada,Westfalia. CS Reisemobil etc....But Possl/Globecar hard to beat for the money...

[rolandrat]

Very interesting Graham

[rolandrat]

Very interesting Graham

[rolandrat]

Although we didn't attend the show this year I was told that IH wasn't there. Wouldn't it be fair to say that they produce a quality high end campervan. When you look around with a view to buying one they seem in very short supply which leads me to think that there are some very satisfied IH owners about.

[rolandrat]

Although we didn't attend the show this year I was told that IH wasn't there. Wouldn't it be fair to say that they produce a quality high end campervan. When you look around with a view to buying one they seem in very short supply which leads me to think that there are some very satisfied IH owners about.

[grahamw]

rolandrat - 2013-09-22 3:04 PM

 

Although we didn't attend the show this year I was told that IH wasn't there. Wouldn't it be fair to say that they produce a quality high end campervan. When you look around with a view to buying one they seem in very short supply which leads me to think that there are some very satisfied IH owners about.

 

That's true they were not there which surprised me a little and I was looking forward to giving them a very close scrutiny as top-end Vantage Neo and IH Tio RL meet similar needs and are similarly priced. The kitchen area in the IH Tio RL that competes with the Vantage Neo is not as well thought out for me with the hob top when raised restricting access to the shelving behind. Reversing the position of the hob and sink as in the Vanatge Neo does help that situation. I also have an aversion to drop-down sinks in the washroom which just harbour dirt. That said I was keen to see them and see how things had developed. Just have to research this further at NEC when I understand IH claim to be launching their 'innovative range of new motorhomes'.

[Guest JudgeMental]

at the risk of having thread pulled, I advise doing your own financial homework before parting with money to some of these outfits...... I have more money in my pocket than some of em, let alone bank account, I also still have the name I was born with! *-)

[rolandrat]

One plus point with IH I think is the 3ltr prancing horse Fiat engine, anyone who has owned one will be aware of the relaxing effortless drive. Don't get me wrong the 2.3ltr is no slouch and is well on top of the job but the 3ltr, wow!.

[grahamw]

rolandrat - 2013-09-22 5:10 PM

 

One plus point with IH I think is the 3ltr prancing horse Fiat engine, anyone who has owned one will be aware of the relaxing effortless drive. Don't get me wrong the 2.3ltr is no slouch and is well on top of the job but the 3ltr, wow!.

 

I have the 3 litre Comfort-matic with the Vantage Sol and couldn't agree with you more. Whilst it's not listed as an option now with Vantage Neo I gather it's no problem if you want it. Bearing in mind that with a van conversion you are more or less permanently driving a vehicle with a full payload the 2.3 litre is working harder than the 3 litre. Having had vehicles with both size of engine I see virtually nil difference in their mileage returns and the extra 'grunt' is very welcome when overtaking, particularly if you slip the Comfort-matic into manual mode temporarily.

 

[whiskers]

As always, Judge is so absolutely biased and completely unpatriotic that he seems to be a bit blind. The Adria Twin is not the "be all and end all" as he tries to make out. I had a Twin and it's insulation was not as effective as that on the Wildax. The Twin had many areas where the metal skin was devoid of insulation, something that I have not found on my British built conversion.

I rest my case Judge!

[colin]

grahamw - 2013-09-22 10:57 AM

 

 

On cost there is a concern and you need to examine in real detail the offering to decide whether it is worth the extra money. At Lincoln I was able to examine a wide number of vans from all over Europe. One van of German origin was cheaper than a Vantage Neo by some measure. But when you began to examine the detail you could see where corners had been cut. The German van I would describe as being 'engineered' rather than 'constructed'. Methods of assembly involved the use of fixings through the face of furniture and then covering the unsightly screw with a cover, cap or little self adhesive vinyl disc. As with covering a wound with sticking plaster it only hides the wound but doesn't conceal that it is there. Such constructional techniques are designed to allow assembly by relatively unskilled people on a fast moving production line. It has always intrigued me that such constructional techniques rarely find their way into more mainstream coachbuilt models in Germany and does seem to be reserved for the van conversion market. Some are better than others. Out of interest there were three identical versions of this particular German model on show. It was a model with a centrally positioned shower reaching across the van and enclosed with two sliding tambour doors. In two of the vehicles the right hand sliding tambour door refused completely to extend from its tightly wound retreat. This door in the third van would extend with a struggle but one could see with use and abrasion of the door against it channel that this too would suffer the same fate shortly. The forward facing seat in the front lounge offered poor support and only offered short lived comfort. This van was considerably cheaper than some of its UK counterparts and so it should be. I raise it as an example of how the devil is in the detail and how after close inspection digging deeper into your pocket may be a very wise decision.

.

 

My background is in wooden construction in aircraft and wooden furniture for schools, and as such the construction technique used by Globecar I find perfectly acceptable, The only Vantage vans I've seen where early examples, these where not built to any higher spec than globecar, just differently. The tabour door you refer to requires an occasional spray of silicon (maybe twice a year?) , also it requires a two handed technique to 'unroll' it then IMO results in a washroom that totaly outclasses any I've seen in a Vantage.

[Guest JudgeMental]

whiskers - 2013-09-22 8:10 PM

 

As always, Judge is so absolutely biased and completely unpatriotic that he seems to be a bit blind. The Adria Twin is not the "be all and end all" as he tries to make out. I had a Twin and it's insulation was not as effective as that on the Wildax. The Twin had many areas where the metal skin was devoid of insulation, something that I have not found on my British built conversion.

I rest my case Judge!

 

what are you a congenital idiot...i said the twin far from perfect! but still better than many home built expensive rubbish with paper thin insulation., just look at the evidence numpty.

 

As for unpatriotic?..... any van assembled here contains 80/90% of imported materials..... what an absolute imbecile!lol...I pay UK VAT at 20% on any vehicle I import.....No bias, just common sense, and value for money, based on experience and looking further than the end of my nose.....It might have escaped your notice, but most all of the informed and enlightened opinion on here from members with imported LHD campers!lol

[grahamw]

colin - 2013-09-22 8:27 PM

 

My background is in wooden construction in aircraft and wooden furniture for schools, and as such the construction technique used by Globecar I find perfectly acceptable, The only Vantage vans I've seen where early examples, these where not built to any higher spec than globecar, just differently. The tabour door you refer to requires an occasional spray of silicon (maybe twice a year?) , also it requires a two handed technique to 'unroll' it then IMO results in a washroom that totaly outclasses any I've seen in a Vantage.

 

Colin I don't think in my posting I ever argued that people should find certain construction techniques employed in van conversions unacceptable just that certain construction techniques are cheaper to execute than others and the end result may be less easy on the eye. This I would expect to have some impact on the price. I also never made any judgements about the superiority of the Vantage washroom which to be honest is fairly basic but I do know that it doesn't require maintenance 'twice a year' and a 'two handed technique to close the door'. I would agree that the German van I alluded to may appear to 'outclass' (as you put it) the Vantage offering in its initial visual impact but as you will know from your background looking good is not the sole factor in producing products that function well.