whiskers Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Sorry to go off the subject, but is this sort of comment to be expected on this website? Quote from the Judge. "what are you a congenital idiot...i said the twin far from perfect! but still better than many home built expensive rubbish with paper thin insulation., just look at the evidence numpty". You are welcome to your opinion, but to call someone a congenital idiot and a numpty I consider to be uncalled for. I have never experienced this treatment on MHF forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Less easy on the eye..Well I have to laugh when I look at the websites of the vans being discussed, with such low quality photos on a decidedly amateurish web site, showing drab looking interiors, with compromised and probably uncomfortable bed/come sofa arrangement (bet bed time fun) with low backs...You talk as if you're discussing a well turned leg on antiques roadshow, whereas what I'm looking at even more grim looking then DFS......Not once do you mention cost, practicality or value for money... I must say when we visited Excel a few years ago the Vantage vans did stand out as being more reasonably priced and looked kinda OK compared to other overpriced UK vans...but even my adria costs 10K more here...they just think they can get away with it..consequently the market does not expand! Cars used to be the same poor value compared to europe, but a concerted consumer rebellion (remember the "pirates" campaign) which saw Ford UK sales fall due to the amount of RHD imports from Belgium etc...At that time I imported 4x4 trucks(mitsubishi) and saved a packet. but eventually prices balanced out to the level when importing pointless...I actually bought last truck here.. I look forward to the day motorhome reach the same level of equilibrium..but doubt it, as market so odd here, producing vans that can't compete on any level..its a crying shame to be honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 whiskers - 2013-09-23 8:09 AM Sorry to go off the subject, but is this sort of comment to be expected on this website? Quote from the Judge. "what are you a congenital idiot...i said the twin far from perfect! but still better than many home built expensive rubbish with paper thin insulation., just look at the evidence numpty". You are welcome to your opinion, but to call someone a congenital idiot and a numpty I consider to be uncalled for. I have never experienced this treatment on MHF forum. well... we are more discerning on here. Originally..I said this: "I never quoted adria as being the end and be all..far from it! " and you totally misquoted me? and reversed the meaning? and then went on to insult with your unpatriotic BS..and you expect me to sit here and take it... Just like DIY "measure twice cut once"..I suggest you read threads properly? before insulting people and reinforcing you petty prejudices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickweh Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 whiskers - 2013-09-23 8:09 AM Sorry to go off the subject, but is this sort of comment to be expected on this website? Quote from the Judge. "what are you a congenital idiot...i said the twin far from perfect! but still better than many home built expensive rubbish with paper thin insulation., just look at the evidence numpty". You are welcome to your opinion, but to call someone a congenital idiot and a numpty I consider to be uncalled for. I have never experienced this treatment on MHF forum. He's not picking on you, he treats everybody the same way. Stay on this forum, I had brilliant advice on here earlier this year when I had leisure battery problems. Judgemental also has valid points to make in the panel van debate particularly regarding financials and construction. It's a bit like the Houses of Parliament, it gets heated sometimes. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 whiskers - 2013-09-23 8:09 AM Sorry to go off the subject, but is this sort of comment to be expected on this website? Quote from the Judge. "what are you a congenital idiot...i said the twin far from perfect! but still better than many home built expensive rubbish with paper thin insulation., just look at the evidence numpty". You are welcome to your opinion, but to call someone a congenital idiot and a numpty I consider to be uncalled for. I have never experienced this treatment on MHF forum. These forums have virtually no moderation when it comes to 'politeness'. A small number of regular participants are prepared to be unnecessarily rude and JudgeMental is undoubtedly the current most persistent of these. You'll have to accept (I'm afraid) that this is his commonplace participation mode and - if you can't ignore the twaddle he comes out with - you'd be best staying with MHF where moderation is more stringent. Sometimes the biter gets bitten and this 2012 thread may entertain you. http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Who-but-an-idiot-would-buy-a-coach-built-/29587/ You'll note the final posting (on Page 5) when Daniel Attwood, MMM magazine's editor, finally stepped in. Hasn't seemed to have had long-lasting effect though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 rude? where in this thread have I been rude without justification...so its OK to be personally attacked as unpatriotic and other such nonsense, and I'm supposed to take it. Trust you to dig up drivel, simply to reinforce your petty point scoring... what a sad old man. At least like many personalities, Moi deemed interesting enough to be plagiarized :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I always find threads that throw up build quality interesting. My own long-arrived at view (currently) is that - for the vast majority of vans - manufacturers simply can't, at the prices they are competing at, afford to build exceptionally well-finished vehicles; they would have to devote too much time to the labour costs to make them viable. That said some converters do build their products much better than others, oddly though some of the poor quality converters thrive whilst some that turn out higher quality products struggle. There's probably a combination of the purchasing public having little real understanding of the nebulous 'build quality' it freely spouts about, and just not being prepared to pay the higher costs involved for a genuinely well built product. Bottom line, for nearly all the 'vans you will see at places like the upcoming NEC show, British and foreign, the build quality will mainly range between dire and adequate. As consumers, we are kind of to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-B Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 With all these insults and counter insults flying about I'm beginning to wish I'd not asked the question in the first place. I've spent the fifty years of my working life, employed and self-employed, having to work to very rigorous standards which I still apply in my retirement years. So I'm pretty well qualified to spot faults that can be seen which, to some extent, gives you some idea of what could be hidden. One of my hates in life is when I go into a store and look at furniture as one example, and find a drawer that's stuck, a bit missing or some other obvious fault and I think what the hell is the manager doing. The same thing applies when viewing a show home you find a door won't shut, loose fittings and all manner of things that are not straight or out of line. Surely everything that's on show is there to tempt you to buy and so to all intents and purposes should be as near to perfect as possible. Anyhow enough of my rants and going back to Vantage, I did spot little things that none of the others, or at least the ones we looked at didn't seem to apply. For instance when the side door was opened it showed about 6" of the back of a unit and although bottom fit was tight to the floor they'd still bothered to apply a very neat brown silicone bead along the base, nice touch. Another thing, when the doors on the top units were all opened each and everyone lined up perfectly. Whoever had fitted this van had obviously taken some pride in what he'd done. I don't say for a minute that every van that leaves their factory had the same principal applied but then but surely it's then up to the buyer do his, or her, self inspection or take someone who can do it for them. I don't intend naming other companies but some of the ones we looked at certainly didn't apply these standards, for example, on two of them there was at least a 2-3mm gap along the bottom of the units where all manner of things could crawl in and die or crumbs etc get kicked. Anyhow I suppose all this is irrelevant because on reflection we've decided to stick with what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I do not condone personal attacks on anyone. It'll be a shame if a lot of good comments are lost in this melee. Pete B raised an interesting topic that we could have gone on to explore by looking at the growth in UK converters. JudgeMental's views on motorhomes are worth reading. I might not agree with him all the time, but I find it easy to understand what he is saying about motorhomes. We need different opinions on motorhomes to help us make sensible, dare I say, well judged decisions. I liked Pete B's assessment of the van he viewed. We changed motorhomes this year and desperately wanted to buy a British built van - preferably a PVC. We bought another Hymer A-class. Why? I was underwhelmed by the overpriced PVC offerings from the UK manufacturers. Unfortunately, I didn't feel any greater warmth when I looked at UK built coachbuilts although an AutoSleeper on a Merc came close. My wife found some of the current continental PVCs too adventurous for her taste whereas I thought they were refreshingly innovative. Our Hymer is an acceptable compromise. My brother, an aerospace engineer specialising in strong, light weight design of commercial and military aircraft wings and my railway engineer son both poked around in my new van and said it was engineered in depth for quality, light weight, and strength - these characteristics shone out for them as engineers. They could see where the money went and it wasn't in soft furnishings and equipment. There is a high price to pay for that engineering and a risk that our motorhome is over-engineered. I'll live with those issues and with the disappointment that our motorhome cottage industry remains wedded to UK concepts - just like the truck industry did. We looked at Vantage's vans but its offerings were not for us. Despite poking around, we didn't find the 'wow' factor that suggested they were sufficiently better and different to numerous other offerings from the growing number of UK converters. Good enough build quality? Probably but I'd need a road test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Pete-B - 2013-09-23 11:04 AM ...going back to Vantage, I did spot little things that none of the others, or at least the ones we looked at didn't seem to apply. For instance when the side door was opened it showed about 6" of the back of a unit and although bottom fit was tight to the floor they'd still bothered to apply a very neat brown silicone bead along the base, nice touch. Another thing, when the doors on the top units were all opened each and everyone lined up perfectly. Whoever had fitted this van had obviously taken some pride in what he'd done. I don't say for a minute that every van that leaves their factory had the same principal applied but then but surely it's then up to the buyer do his, or her, self inspection or take someone who can do it for them. I don't intend naming other companies but some of the ones we looked at certainly didn't apply these standards, for example, on two of them there was at least a 2-3mm gap along the bottom of the units where all manner of things could crawl in and die or crumbs etc get kicked... I agree that attention to details like the ones you describe does bode well for the general quality of the total product. Must have a proper look at their 'vans at the NEC (if they are there), they sound from the above description that they might be fitted by people who care about what they do. Such a thing is worth owning in a sea of mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 crinklystarfish - 2013-09-23 8:25 PM ...Must have a proper look at their 'vans at the NEC (if they are there)... NEC Show Exhibitor list here http://www.motorhomeandcaravanshow.co.uk/page.cfm/Action=ExhibList/ListID=1/letter=V/loadSearch=54495_720 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 The banter is very amusing as long as your not on the receiving end. Friendly help and advice and sharing our experiences makes for an interesting forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the general Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Very interesting comments I am swaying to vantage PVC, there is very little negative remarks on the forums which gives you reassurances of their workmanship etc .i wonder how many PVC they produce over a year? Any ideas anyone ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the general Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-90636-20-days0-orderasc-.html More info about vantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 This is the last posting on the threat that Derek is referring to: This has gone far enough now. Can I remind all users that this forum is for motorhome enthusiasts to chat, give advice, share experiences and generally get on with one another, not for petty squabbling. If you want to do that then there are plenty of other forums. As most of you know, we try to take a hands-off approach to moderation and very, very rarely ban users, but some of you are coming very close to being removed, so please tone it down and keep your comments friendly. Thank you Daniel Can all the numpties, idiots, nit-pickers and plain clever a*ses please take note!!! 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 the general - 2013-09-24 5:20 PM http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-90636-20-days0-orderasc-.html More info about vantage A very interesting account of the Vantage Neo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickweh Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Are Vantage sponsoring this thread or are some of you on commission? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the general Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Granted There seems a lot of info about vantage PVC but seeing they are on my short list of purchases I want as much info as possible good or bad. One member said they liked the build but didn't have the WOW factor I wonder what they meant by that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Just look at the photos on website, look pretty ordinary to me and impractical.....if your idea of fun is getting the bed rolls out every night, making a bed up out of a sofa, just like in a caravan...well!lol. Personally i love my wife but we are not joined at the hip, and when i like reading, or watching domething different, stretched out on a proper king size sprung mattress she likes watching tv or laptop up front chatting to her mates innthe front lounge.......i have never understood the attraction of these layouts. Plus storage looks very limited......Anyway thats my take :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 I'm pleased that somebody in your family has mates Eddie. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 747 - 2013-09-25 11:37 PM I'm pleased that somebody in your family has mates Eddie. :D Bless you Jim :-D The thing that really gets me is they must build on a base van. as you pay extra for everything, A/C, cruise control, ESP, hill hold? then on top you pay extra for seat swivels and electric step... All standard fitting on vans that interest me...So by the time you add a 2nd battery and awning ..you arrive at a true price..and sorry but its laughable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Then to top it all a 2 year warranty...when new van I'm considering comes with 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 To me, the "wow factor' is when you experience something that greatly impresses and excites compared to the norm. It's something that engages the expressive part of me, not the logical part which I will use before parting with my cash. When looking at the Vantage Neo, the quality of build did not stand out - it was good but not outstanding, the layout was fairly traditional - nothing wrong with that, and the people we spoke to were pleasant and informative - just what you'd expect. Ih motorhomes know how to put the wow factor into PVCs - at a price - as do some of the continental manufacturers on storage and layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the general Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Interesting. What van are you interested in judge? 6year warranty sounds good. Yes ih the ones I have seen do seem very individual ? Led floor lights? Etc but what is wrong with something basic, practical,fit for purpose, proven. I tend to do extensive travelling the less things to go wrong the better same with cars honestly who needs self park, fitted sat nav ,etc heated seats , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 the general - 2013-09-26 11:12 AM Interesting. What van are you interested in judge? 6year warranty sounds good. Yes ih the ones I have seen do seem very individual ? Led floor lights? Etc but what is wrong with something basic, practical,fit for purpose, proven. I tend to do extensive travelling the less things to go wrong the better same with cars honestly who needs self park, fitted sat nav ,etc heated seats , At the risk of upsetting the fan club! and being called a traitor again*-) .....What's wrong?..the price dear boy, for what you get and are expected to pay extra for :-D you have just reminded me parking sensors another extra. I'm looking at Possl/globecar (same vans) cant justify the cost of a La Strada, as we like flying further afield as well. so like to keep budget in the mid to high 30's. but I can get a luxury Las Strada for 45-50K. 2 vans I'm keen on 636 FR (french bed) and roadcruiser Revolution with electric bed (garage underneath) its at 0.86 min into the video http://www.campingcarlesite.com/scoops-camping-car-fourgon-amenage-possl-636fr-pxl-211_611.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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