Where is Motorhoming going?.......discuss

[snowie]

Recent threads have made me think about what owning a motorhome (or campervan) means for me.

 

We've only had our van since 2009, so I'll admit the obvious, before anyone else does it for me; I speak from a position of minimal experience. We've only made about 6 major trips, (and lots of shorter ones) mostly outside the UK : France, Germany, Spain , Croatia and points in between.

But I think about what I see, and what I read in magazines and on this forum.

I have come to appreciate that there are several types of motorhomers;

 

A) The pure hobbyists, who maybe spend a total of 6-12 weeks using their motorhome in UK and on the continent.

 

B) The more serious users, for whom motorhoming is a bigger part of their life, maybe they use their motorhome for 13-26 weeks of the year, and spend several months, including winter enjoying the sun in southern parts of Europe

 

C) I think the next group is the most difficult to define, but I'll jump straight in and suggest that beyond 26 weeks you probably consider yourself to be a "full-timer"

 

The boundaries between these groups are clearly fluid, but introducing more bands is not particularly helpful.

 

I think that the "full-timer" band is probably the most interesting, and comprises 2 subdivisions;

 

a) those who have retained a UK base

 

b) those who have no UK base ( other than family and or friends)

 

I think this would be an interesting research project, across The EU.

 

Much of the current debate about councils erecting barriers, Aires closing or starting to impose charges, and the problems of "free-camping" has to be considered from all of the above viewpoints, and will be coloured by the group that you most closely relate to.

 

At present I would consider myself to be in Group A) with aspirations to Group B).

 

I think it would/will be difficult to find a way to draw these groups together into a single pressure group that could speak for us all; we are after all trying to "do our own thing".

 

How do we "do our own thing" whilst not screwing it up for the rest of our community?

 

regards

alan b

 

 

[sambukashot]

What would be the purpose of this pressure group, what would be the goals?

[Guest JudgeMental]

I am in B with no aspirations...I think you need to differentiate between, everything including the kitchen sink motor "homers" and campers..because that's what we are campers. and certainly dont want to live in a van or spend any more time in this god forsaken country then necessary :D

[snowie]

sambukashot - 2013-09-22 5:48 PM

 

What would be the purpose of this pressure group, what would be the goals?

 

As someone who has set up a website to advocate more "aire type facilities" in UK I'd have thought you would have some goals, or maybe that's the only one?

 

I'm not suggesting that a pressure group would be desirable, maybe lamenting the fact that it's an impossibility. I'm not at all sure that there could be enough common ground to make a pressure group effective. In fact, as we are such a bunch of individuals, with very different approaches, there's no chance!

alan b

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Snowie, I think what Keith is really asking is: pressure for what? What is it that you think we are missing, and should have. Personally, I would like to see, if not a pressure group, then an association, aimed at putting back to manufacturers user reviews of their products, in the hope they would then devote a little more design effort to practical issues.

 

The look of a van is merely a matter of personal taste and cosmetics, and the market seems to serve our individual aesthetic preferences to a fair degree if the mainland offerings are included in the mix. However the practical features, such as payload, space utilisation, distribution of air diffusion outlets, fresh water tank location, gas locker sizing, accessibility for maintenance/repair are, to all intents and purposes, Cinderella issues.

 

It is no good expecting the magazines to highlight shortcomings: if they do so they are refused vans to review, or advertising is withdrawn, or both. It seems to be recognised that buyers are mainly first timers who will not spot shortcomings until they have spent their cash, and will then either lose interest and sell, or simply change to an alternative product when they can see what works and what does not. There are a few very good vans, a few shockers, and a huge number, IMO, of varyingly mediocre vans that could be improved greatly with a bit more effort. If that could be achieved we should all, including the manufacturers, benefit.

[Guest peter]

Or everybody should buy a Le-Voyageur and all would be happy owning a first class motorhome that is fit for purpose in every way. (ducks and backs away) :D

 

We are in category "B" by the way.

[snowie]

Brian Kirby - 2013-09-22 10:06 PM

 

 

 

Snowie, I think what Keith is really asking is: pressure for what? What is it that you think we are missing,

 

ab.............. I'm not calling for a pressure group, I don't think one would work.

 

Personally, I would like to see, if not a pressure group, then an association, aimed at putting back to manufacturers user reviews of their products, in the hope they would then devote a little more design effort to practical issues. ……….The look of a van is merely a matter of personal taste and cosmetics,

 

ab.............. Not sure about associations Brian; Caravan Club and Camping and Caravan Club could do the job that you are describing; maybe they need more encouragement?

 

It is no good expecting the magazines to highlight shortcomings: if they do so they are refused vans to review, or advertising is withdrawn, or both

 

ab................ Magazines are mostly read by my groups A) and B) I would say, so they are not going to be particularly interested in issues that are of most concern to full-timers; "UK aires", "free-camping" municipal motorhome parking spaces etc. Some of these issues are not that important to me either, because I don't generally spend more than 2 or 3 days touring in the UK, and I generally use commercial sites of one sort or another (CC, C&CC, Independents and Britstops) and budget for that sort of outlay. I would like to be able to park at coastal or inland attractions; don't mind paying a reasonable sum, but am not desperate to stay overnight in a carpark. I have read some of the reasons that Councils give for banning motorhomes, and in these cash strapped times can see their reasons.

I think the responsible majority are badly served by the irresponsible and selfish minority. But who's going to sort them out? And I'm pretty sure that they are in ALL of the groups that I described.

So how do we get our views across, let alone reverse some of the less positive developments of the last couple of years?

 

 

Sorry about the formatting of my reply, but I can't get to grips with the options available on this forum; hope my reply is reasonably clear if not coherent!,

 

regards

alan b

 

 

[rolandrat]

Brian, your views are spot on, it seems that the marketing men can highlight just about anything with a selling potential, plenty of glitter but rubbish underneath. One comparison is the AutoTrail range against the Tribute range. Both are manufactured on the same production line but the Tribute is basically an Auto-Trail stripped of everything you don't really need and the build quality seems much better.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I fink your finkin to much Snowie:-D

 

I thought this thread more related to motorhome use then manufacture. But its such a convoluted topic, more heads than a hydra..I dont get it to be honest. Nearly ended up quoting Tracker until I thought better of it! needless to say we are all very different from each other so to many variables...with some more then others! :D

[derek pringle]

Hi All,

I believe the "Shows" are an opportunity missed. Having been to a few at Birmingham and Manchester I consider these great opportunities for the Industry and its users/customers to get together.

Rather than sit and watch some t.v. cook show us how to stir fry chicken in the van, I would much prefer [ and have a lot of respect for ] Senior Executives of different manufacturers sitting in front of an audience and really listening to and taking on board any widespread and valid points. I do not mean for motorhome owners just to go and vent their spleens at these people but to make a concerted effort to illustrate their wants and frustrations. I do not know if it would be possible to get anybody from the local councils to attend and listen to some different points like Car Park Height Barriers and Airs for instance but I am sure the Councils make money from these shows as well as the manufacturers.

 

cheers

derek

[snowie]

JudgeMental - 2013-09-23 9:01 AM

 

I fink your finkin to much Snowie:-D

 

I thought this thread more related to motorhome use then manufacture. But its such a convoluted topic, more heads than a hydra..I dont get it to be honest. Nearly ended up quoting Tracker until I thought better of it! needless to say we are all very different from each other so to many variables...with some more then others! :D

 

I agree Judge! it's not going anywhere.

 

Will forum moderators please pull this thread now (Snowie/OP)

regards

alan b

 

[crinklystarfish]

snowie - 2013-09-22 5:38 PM

 

...How do we "do our own thing" whilst not screwing it up for the rest of our community?

 

regards

alan b

 

 

Respectfully, discreetly and humbly.

 

It would help to realise we are not, in general, currently an attractive user group.

 

The general public need to view us as benign: not as a source of public nuisance.

 

Defer to local communities and the wider environment at every point.

[Guest JudgeMental]

crinklystarfish - 2013-09-23 9:51 AM

 

snowie - 2013-09-22 5:38 PM

 

...How do we "do our own thing" whilst not screwing it up for the rest of our community?

 

regards

alan b

 

 

Respectfully, discreetly and humbly.

 

It would help to realise we are not, in general, currently an attractive user group.

 

The general public need to view us as benign: not as a source of public nuisance.

 

Defer to local communities and the wider environment at every point.

 

A large white box on wheels dont help..and while some on here seem to get emotionally attached..some even giving the van name and gender (what is that about!lol) afraid a lot of folk simply see them as an eyesore and that entirely their prerogative......

[snowie]

JudgeMental - 2013-09-23 10:26 AM

 

crinklystarfish - 2013-09-23 9:51 AM

 

snowie - 2013-09-22 5:38 PM

 

...How do we "do our own thing" whilst not screwing it up for the rest of our community?

 

regards

alan b

 

 

Respectfully, discreetly and humbly.

 

It would help to realise we are not, in general, currently an attractive user group.

 

The general public need to view us as benign: not as a source of public nuisance.

 

Defer to local communities and the wider environment at every point.

 

A large white box on wheels dont help..and while some on here seem to get emotionally attached..some even giving the van name and gender (what is that about!lol) afraid a lot of folk simply see them as an eyesore and that entirely their prerogative......

 

EXACTLY!

Crinkles and Judge; you are both absolutely right, but to admit that as a group we are not seen in the most positive light is not the norm.

Humility is slightly at odds with big shiny RV's, particularly in the current economic climate.

Whilst I am not an advocate of pressure groups for motorhomers, I do believe that we are a community, and that we have responsibilities to our felowl campers, and the wider community to behave in a respectfu, discreet and benign manner.

regards

alan b

[Guest JudgeMental]

We have responsibilities towards each other when sharing a campsite or Aire thats for sure ,,but about as far as it goes I would think. We are more responsible to act considerately to the wider public....You only have to look at the many parking threads on here, where owners think they have a god given right to park the white box in front of house, and then get perplexed when no one loves it!lol

[snowie]

JudgeMental - 2013-09-23 11:02 AM

 

We have responsibilities towards each other when sharing a campsite or Aire thats for sure ,,but about as far as it goes I would think. We are more responsible to act considerately to the wider public....You only have to look at the many parking threads on here, where owners think they have a god given right to park the white box in front of house, and then get perplexed when no one loves it!lol

 

I don't want to hijack my own ailing thread Judge; or take it too personally, but what colour would be more suitable? metallic Nato camouflage maybe? (tic)

regards

alan b

[Guest JudgeMental]

snowie - 2013-09-23 11:24 AM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-09-23 11:02 AM

 

We have responsibilities towards each other when sharing a campsite or Aire thats for sure ,,but about as far as it goes I would think. We are more responsible to act considerately to the wider public....You only have to look at the many parking threads on here, where owners think they have a god given right to park the white box in front of house, and then get perplexed when no one loves it!lol

 

I don't want to hijack my own ailing thread Judge; or take it too personally, but what colour would be more suitable? metallic Nato camouflage maybe? (tic)

regards

alan b

 

 

If you're a twitcher or duck botherer...Maybe! But neighbors even more unlikely to be impressed :D

[Retread24800]

There are already an awful lot of Motor home clubs only two of which seem to have any 'voice' i.e the CC and The C&CC.

Perhaps what is required is an umbrella organisation to promote motor caravanning, to promote legislation to allow individuals and small enterprises to offer stop over facilities, to amend town planning rules, and to promote holiday activities that maybe are outside the scope of the smaller clubs.

As for a technology pressure group described by Brian, then the market place is already pushing considerable advances in the construction of both Caravans and also M/H's and I'm thinking the reduction in structural wood, wet C/H all as a result of knowledgeable criticism on this and other Fora, describing exactly what the end user expects.  It seems the manufacturers do read our posts!

 

[Retread24800]

There are already an awful lot of Motor home clubs only two of which seem to have any 'voice' i.e the CC and The C&CC.

Perhaps what is required is an umbrella organisation to promote motor caravanning, to promote legislation to allow individuals and small enterprises to offer stop over facilities, to amend town planning rules, and to promote holiday activities that maybe are outside the scope of the smaller clubs.

As for a technology pressure group described by Brian, then the market place is already pushing considerable advances in the construction of both Caravans and also M/H's and I'm thinking the reduction in structural wood, wet C/H all as a result of knowledgeable criticism on this and other Fora, describing exactly what the end user expects.  It seems the manufacturers do read our posts!

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

had the far superior Alde wet central heating back in 2000 and its still considered high end, such is traumas stranglehold on the industry

[Retread24800]

JudgeMental - 2013-09-23 1:39 PMhad the far superior Alde wet central heating back in 2000 and its still considered high end, such is traumas stranglehold on the industry

But this year , looking at my copy of "Le monde du Campingcar" there would seem to be a lot of mid range models for 2014 that offer Alde heating, not counting insulated double floors and the space between is also heated.

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Retread24800 - 2013-09-23 1:00 PM

JudgeMental - 2013-09-23 1:39 PM had the far superior Alde wet central heating back in 2000 and its still considered high end, such is traumas stranglehold on the industry

But this year , looking at my copy of "Le monde du Campingcar" there would seem to be a lot of mid range models for 2014 that offer Alde heating, not counting insulated double floors and the space between is also heated.

sounds good, but Euro campers a different matter...mine even had wet water pipes under the floor...nice and toasty in toilet compartment when -35 outside (Sweden). would be nice to see Alde in panel vans but maybe not the room...double floors have caught on though.

[Tracker]

Retread24800 - 2013-09-23 12:20 PMThere are already an awful lot of Motor home clubs only two of which seem to have any 'voice' i.e the CC and The C&CC.

Perhaps what is required is an umbrella organisation to promote motor caravanning, to promote legislation to allow individuals and small enterprises to offer stop over facilities, to amend town planning rules, and to promote holiday activities that maybe are outside the scope of the smaller clubs.

The CC and C&CC undoubtedly have the voice but they choose not to use it in any way to support Motor Caravanning in the UK or to adapt their own sites to suit one night casual stopovers as needed by so many. Maybe it's because they see it as a way to lose members?I see it as a way to gain members - members who would be so impressed at getting some genuine support for forms of overnighting other than pre booked, often expensive for what is used, full caravan and tenting sites - that they would be happy to contribute by becoming members.But being realistic it ain't gonna happen so we will continue channel hoping for our holidays as the savings in sites charges easily covers the ferry costs and the sun shines more often.There is one club which ought to be helping - MCC - but they too seem to lack the clout, desire, ability or whatever to really push for more informal camping locations or overnights (at a sensible cost of course) in otherwise empty car parks in attractive locations.