Hug a teacher day

[antony1969]

The poor darlings are on strike today in the ghetto . If you see one in the pub or out shopping today give em a hug in support , they work horrendous hours with terrible working conditions with only a tiny pension at the end of all that suffering . After three awwwwwwwwwwwww .

[Tracker]

Perhaps we can all donate something for the poor little half starved hard done by teachers to help them retain the lifestyle they have grown accustomed to?

 

Oh sorry, I almost forgot - we already do subsidise their meagre pensions which are already far more generous than the rest of us who pay for it will ever get and it would be grossly unfair to expect teachers to contribute more not to society but to their own pensions wouldn't it?

 

[Guest pelmetman]

I see teacher baiting is alive and well on CB 8-)...........................

 

 

Its the New Neanderthals equivalent of a blood sport :D

[antony1969]

Those lovely teacher types come a very close second to our hard working fireman who luckily have the time to have second and even third jobs to boost what is a shockingly low wage and pension scheme . Count your blessings if your lucky enough to not have to do either of these soul destroying jobs . Amen

[Tracker]

At least all firemen can put out a fire or pull you from a wrecked motorhome, but as to whether all teachers can actually teach I am far less certain!

 

Mind you perhaps a burning building is less intimidating than a class of unruly kids suffering from a lack of parental control and the now defunct ethos of school discipline that was lost when common sense was outlawed.

[Guest peter]

What do you lot know about teachers?. My wife taught for 24 Yrs and gave it up as it's very stressful and the government keep on jerking education around.

Tracker keeps on about them, and what did he do for a crust? he was an insurance salesman parasite.

[RogerC]

Putting all the prejudices regarding gold plated pensions etc aside for a moment I have a degree of sympathy with teachers/nurses/firemen etc.  They are constantly messed around by successive governments, by ambitious self centred managers etc.  Teachers messed around by ever moving goal posts regarding syllabus content, unruly pupils, even more unruly parents and then subjected to 'targets' which affect salaries that seem dependent on pupil results.  True some teachers are rubbish but even the best teachers can not get good results from pupils who couldn't give a sh*t.

 

Firemen are striking because of changes to their terms and conditions agreed on the day they joined the service.  How would you like your employment contract changed at the drop of a hat without recourse?  I bet you wouldn't.

 

Nurses hit by ever changing targets, understaffing and ruled by a 'not fit for purpose' self serving money grabbing hierarchy.

 

Yes there are wasters and grabbers in all of these 'professions' but in the main they do a good job and deserve our support.  It's the 'shop floor' that always carries the can for the cock ups of the senior management which has been apparent in recent years in all public services.  In these times of cuts when was the last time you read of a senior management post being chopped to save the jobs of those who actually provide the relevant service?

 

So yes hug a teacher........then call for the reduction in the excessive salaries of some head teachers, call for contracts to be honoured and then call for the top heavy money sapping upper management to be culled.  Once that's done we might be on the way to a level playing field.

 

[Tracker]

peter - 2013-10-01 9:30 PM

Tracker keeps on about them, and what did he do for a crust? he was an insurance salesman parasite.

 

Not quite Peter.

What sort of parasite were you?

I actually was a district pensions specialist with access to accurate and up to date details of pretty well every pension scheme available in the UK giving honest unbiased guidance to people who were genuinely confused by the terms and jargon used by government, employers and pension providers.

I never sold anybody anything that was not fully and accountably justified with a permanent record that was retained on file for their protection, and mine, and I am proud of my years doing this for the people I helped get a better pension.

That I made a good living was the icing. So do doctors and many other professions make a good living, much better than mine in most cases, but I don't see you slagging them off. Of course there were rogues and villains in insurance and pensions but no more so than in other industries. Being commision paid we were of course an easy target

 

That is how I knew that public sector pensions were so generous and it is also how I knew that they were unsustainable in the long term some 30 years ago. And that was the view of the then government who also lacked the political will to do anything about it just as successive governments had.

I don't begrudge teachers a decent pension, heaven knows that most of them deserve it, but I do not agree with their pension being so heavily subsidised so teachers are not paying the same level of contributions that those of us in unsubsidised pensions in the private sector had to pay for ours.

Similarly performance related pay. If I didn't do my job correctly I would have been out if retraining did not work. Don't our kids and grand kids deserve the very best teachers that we can have so is it that unreasonable they be held accountable for their performance.

As I said before, I don't know your wife so in generalising I would never and have never say anything untoward about her personally and I would expect you to understand that.

On that basis it would be a bit more adult of you to come up with something other than using the same old excuse to have another snide go at me.

 

[RogerC]

Tracker - 2013-10-01 10:15 PM

peter - 2013-10-01 9:30 PMTracker keeps on about them, and what did he do for a crust? he was an insurance salesman parasite.

Not quite Peter. What sort of parasite were you?I actually was a district pensions specialist with access to accurate and up to date details of pretty well every pension scheme available in the UK. That is how I knew that public sector pensions were so generous and it is also how I knew that they were unsustainable in the long term some 30 years ago. And that was the view of the then government who also lacked the political will to do anything about it just as successive governments had.I don't begrudge teachers a decent pension, heaven knows that most of them deserve it, but I do not agree with them not paying the same level of contributions that I had to pay for mine.Similarly performance related pay. If I didn't do my job correctly I was out. Don't our kids and grand kids deserve the very best teachers that we can have so is it that unreasonable they be held accountable for their performance.As I said before, I don't know your wife so in generalising I would never and have never say anything untoward about her personally and I would expect you to understand that. On that basis it would be a bit more adult of you to come up with something other than using the same old excuse to have another go at me.

 

But that's the nub of the problem Tracker.  How can teacher salaries be linked to performance?  Performance can realistically only be judged by the performance of the pupils.  Ergo an average teacher with a class of above average ability students will 'appear' to be better than an excellent teacher with a class disinterested ill disciplined yobs who have the attention span of a goldfish.

 

So just how are teachers remuneration packages to be set given the unfairness of the current situation?  I don't know but it sure as hell should not rely on the intelligence and attitude...or lack of both....relative to the students.

 

Maybe a period of stability.........a period of non government interference would go some way to being able to see where the good/bad/indifferent teachers are.

 

 

 

[Guest peter]

Not an excuse to have a snide go at all Richard. You have a pop at professions you know next to nothing about. You may know what their pensions were, but nothing about the workload and responsibility that goes with the job.

Most of the insurance salesmen/collectors I've met have not been that bright, so it's to be expected that you take the opportunity to slag off a profession that you are not and could probably never be, qualified to follow.

[antony1969]

Yes it's a tough job , good salary , good holidays , good pension , nice dry working conditions . I sure can understand why they moan so must be terrible for the poor darlings and of course they were not forced into that profession were they ?

[CliveH]

A few notes from me for what they are worth:-

 

Most Teachers do not want to strike - those that do seem to be the more militant types.

 

Teachers in general - to me when I meet them - seem to be quite naive about the "real world"

 

A good teacher is invaluable - my old English Teacher - who had the unfortunate name of Mr Pratt was frankly a genius - he held us all spellbound with his reading and analysis of literature.

 

Similarly - one Maths teacher i had was awesome - a Mr Brown - we all came on in leaps and bounds with him. But when we went on to have a lady Teacher in the next year she was totally useless. Seriously bad. Complaints abounded around her - but nothing could be done.

 

As for Life Assurance salesmen - men from the Pru in particular who had a very good reputation and an excellent track record for good advice - if it were not for them many of the retired generation would be far worse off. How odd that successive Governments by way of inept regulation have overseen the death of that sort of distribution of simply life cover and savings.

 

So now - a huge gap has appeared because the like of me as an IFA cannot afford to deal with small cases because the cost of opening a file on someone is substantial. So there is a thing called the savings "gap" in that some have no retirement provision or protection at all.

 

And the Governments response? - Auto-Enrolement - if you are employed you will be automatically enrolled and forced to pay 3% of salary and your employer 5% of your salary into a pension. You can opt out if you want but your employer has to auto enrol you again three years later and you will have to opt out again - and again etc.

 

To be honest it is not a bad idea - the Australians did similar and it works well.

 

But the fact remains that the data shows that the likes of "the man from the Pru" did indeed help people save and provided valuable protection in the event of a tragedy.

 

Having dealt with two death claims and about a dozen Critical Illness and or PHI claims over the years - I can assure you Peter - the families of the dead person and the sick individual claiming on the Critical illness plan or the PHI plan most certainly did not think of the person that set up that protection for them as any sort of parasite.

 

Far from it.

 

 

[antony1969]

My gripe with em other than most been useless is the constant bleeting about stress , poor pay , pensions so on and so on . Try working in a mill or stacking shelves on minimum wage at all hours and still without enough money to pay the leccy . They chose teaching so teach and be thankfull of the still very generous pay and other benefits that go with the job .

[Guest pelmetman]

My views on the education industry are well known >:-)..............Its run by academics for academics *-)........

 

This little snippet was on our local Look North prog :D...... link to same story is from the local rag...........although the story is also in the Mail 8-)

 

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/Graduate-Liza-told-dumb-CV-help-job-Hull/story-19868403-detail/story.html#axzz2gaadCM67

 

Seems like Macdonalds will soon be the only career opportunities for graduates..............that's got to be worth the thousands of pounds of debt alone :D

[Tracker]

peter - 2013-10-01 10:39 PM

Not an excuse to have a snide go at all Richard. You have a pop at professions you know next to nothing about. You may know what their pensions were, but nothing about the workload and responsibility that goes with the job.

Most of the insurance salesmen/collectors I've met have not been that bright, so it's to be expected that you take the opportunity to slag off a profession that you are not and could probably never be, qualified to follow.

 

Clive again managed to make some very valid points without insulting anyone.

His experience of how naive many teachers are regarding the real world and the world of finance in particular echoes that of my own and of many ex colleagues.

Had you taken the trouble to ask instead of just bludgeoning on you would have discovered that I have more knowledge about the teaching profession than you might expect, but not being married to a retired teacher I don't tend to shout about it indignantly whenever I get the chance.

In addition to the dozens of teachers I met whilst I worked for the Pru, I have several friends and relatives, mainly retired now it must be said, most of whom got out in their fifties on a very handsome close to full pension on the basis of inability to do their job due to stress.

Having talked about it at length over the years with many of them I think maybe I have a lot more insight than you give me credit for and I do know for fact that in some cases considerable lead swinging took place.

Before you huff and puff again, I am not accusing your wife of such practice. You may know a lot about one teacher but I know a bit about many for a broad spread of knowledge.

I am not denying the stress of teaching but in many cases it is no lesser or greater than many other professions in the private sector where often there is not even the safety net of a pension scheme at all and where there are, early retirement pension payouts were, in my experience, somewhat harder to elicit and considerably less generous from a fund run by fully accountable managers.

Clive also makes the point about death claims and PHI and CI payouts and my own experience, like his, is that these events are mercifully rare in the context of the client base but when they do happen being able to help a family survive or recover from tragedy is a truly rewarding experience.

Have you ever been first on the scene after the fire brigade at a badly damaged home and been able to provide immediate accommodation and help with all the paperwork. Even the most organised and logical people appreciate help at that stage and I hope you never get to find out how devastating it is when met by an unhelpful and obstructive insurer.

Can you say that about whatever it was that you did to earn a living?

Did your own pay increase as you gained more experience and hopefully became more proficient - I hope so?

It's called performance related pay and it works as long as it is not used as a weapon to remove people with whom you have a personal grudge or dislike.

In comparing an insurance collector to a fully trained specialist in the business it is like comparing a janitor to a head teacher, to put it in terms you may better understand, and perhaps your own experience of insurance people just trying to earn a living reflects your own very obvious dislike of the whole insurance and pension industry.

How was your own pension funded? Did it give you a good return on the contributions you personally made? Chances are it was one of the larger insurance companies?

Again, as Clive says, who is now filling the gap left by the cessation of insurance companies to conduct business on a face to face basis and to advise people about the potential gaps in their insurance and pensions.

Everyone has a right to know after which it is their choice whether to act or do an ostrich impression by burying their head and hoping it will just go away because it won't go away and very often nowadays the first time anyone finds out how poor their pension might be it is too late to do anything really worthwhile about it.

When I see teachers demonstrating in their own time, or school holidays, instead of harming the pupils and their working parents whilst not affecting their stated enemy the government in any way they will be on the way to gaining some respect from me.

Don't you think that carrying an effigy of Michael Gove through the streets is a bit childish?

Sorry, but if teachers want my respect they need to be a bit more respectful of others.

[CliveH]

Fair comment Rich - but do you really think I managed to offend no one?

 

I am losing my touch obviously!! (lol)

 

But seriously - good points made.

 

And of course - I had forgotten - in the days gone by when In-House AVC's schemes ran alongside the main pension schemes, Prudential had the Teachers Scheme In-House AVC.

 

You would have dealt with many many Teachers as a result.

 

 

[Tracker]

CliveH - 2013-10-03 3:11 PM

 

And of course - I had forgotten - in the days gone by when In-House AVC's schemes ran alongside the main pension schemes, Prudential had the Teachers Scheme In-House AVC.

 

You would have dealt with many many Teachers as a result.

 

 

Just a few teachers Clive, but I did lose count, and what an uphill struggle that mostly was as you will no doubt appreciate. That said, one or two did welcome us with open arms as someone who would give them the unbiased facts regarding their own specific pension projection.

 

Did I mention that I have a son who is a fully qualified IFA based in Bristol and his experiences echo our own!

 

I must ask him who now has the teacher's in house AVC's and how well, or not, the Pru era did for them investment wise as it was pre bubble bursting era?

[CliveH]

Since Pension simplification - things like the old AVC's disappeared - and even if you have one - it is treated as a PPP - i.e 25% TFC.

 

The input regulations all disappeared - now anyone can put up to their earning into a pension to a max of £50K a year.

 

All pensions plans/types can adopt post A-Day rules which means 25% TFC (or PCLS as we are supposed to call it *-) ) but for some the old 3n/80th rule means they can access a larger PCLS than 25% - not always, but it is always worth checking out.

 

Good to hear about your son - we have trained one young guy to full qualification - in fact that plan is he takes over my clients as I wind down to retirement - and this has been so successful that last year we took on our second guy who was actually a school leaver. He is doing real well and is almost Level 4 and intends to get full Chartered Status.

 

We may even sponsor him to do the Degree in Financial Services at Bournemouth Uni.

 

It is good to see that the industry is taking the qualifications side seriously now.

 

I hope he does well!