French MH Price Guide

[Tony Jones]

Though I'd stick this query on here, as well as over the "other side," since I know some of you live in France.

 

To improve my language skills on subjects that REALLY matter, I've recently taken out a subscription to the French "Camping-Car" magazine. With the latest issue, there was a supplement called "La Cote Officielle de l'Occasion Camping-Cars."

 

It's a sort of "Glass's Guide" to used motorhome prices, for every conceivable Continental model from 2003 onwards. There's no such publication in the UK, probably because the MH market is way too small for it to be meaningful, but the French market is in another league altogether.

 

I was wondering if any of you know how good a guide this is to prices over there? Because if it's reasonably accurate, it seems prices over there are much lower, maybe because of faster depreciation. This in turn could be related to their vast hire industry, which must flood the market with used vehicles from time to time!

 

This matters a bit to us, as we've got an idea about retiring to France eventually. If we do that we'd probably sell "Roxie" (here) and buy a French van, so quite like the idea of used prices being lower!

 

Anyone know how this document compares with actually selling prices - private or trade?

[Guest JudgeMental]

there is a version of glasses for motorhomes I believe..sure its been mentioned before, but unlikely to be available. But why would you need it, all yo need do is have a look around and see what your year vans are going for, and price accordingly. Pick a price and put it on ebay (in good weather! it makes all the difference!) if you get loads of interest price to low :D. If you get no interest price to high......Simples! ;-)

 

European vans always much cheaper, there is an automatic 20% difference (at todays exchange rate) plus anything between 10-17% dealer discount to negotiate, depending on size and value of camper..so yes substantial savings if happy with LHD..personally no interest in RHD or supporting a rip off culture..

[Tony Jones]

Thanks Eddie, I know how to sell a van over here (and I take your point that it's worth what someone will pay, not what a book says!)

 

But if we do this, it'll be because we finally decide we ARE going to France, so naturally it'll be a LHD van we need. So it's that end I was wondering about. If this French booklet is ROUGHLY right, we could probably sell ours over here and buy something a year or two younger over there, and possibly slightly higher spec, for about the same money.

 

Your comments (which I remember you mentioning occasionally!) about UK prices seem to bear this out.

[Tracker]

Welcome back Tony, to the forum that reaches the parts that other forums (forii) can't!

[Guest JudgeMental]

Well Tony, it worked with car pricing and the monopoly was eventually broken due to imports, because people has enough of the restrictive pricing... Europe supposed to be an open market....

[Tony Jones]

Tracker - 2013-10-01 4:07 PM

 

Welcome back Tony, to the forum that reaches the parts that other forums (forii) can't!

 

Thanks Richard - but it's FORA. That's what a classical education does for you (well, O-level Latin anyway - knew it would come in handy one day!)

[Tracker]

Tony Jones - 2013-10-01 6:54 PM

 

Tracker - 2013-10-01 4:07 PM

 

Welcome back Tony, to the forum that reaches the parts that other forums (forii) can't!

 

Thanks Richard - but it's FORA. That's what a classical education does for you (well, O-level Latin anyway - knew it would come in handy one day!)

 

And I thought that Fora was sumfink I spreads on me bread!

 

Either that or Forna's mate?

[Guest JudgeMental]

If your getting all fixated and anal about "d book" PM Rupert ;-)

[johnnerontheroad]

There is a glass's guide for motorhomes it's at the back of the mobile homes edition not all makes but most.

 

Dave

[Tracker]

Glass's Guide's only use to a dealer is to justify him offering you less than it's worth for your van in p/x, and considerably less for a direct sale with no purchase by you, as they all quote the guide values and then look for any excuse to offer you less than the quoted guide value - and heaven help you if you're van is unlisted!

 

However when it comes to retail even the most high mileage used and abused vans will be on sale at above quoted retail values and the good examples of popular vans thousands above it.

 

I don't begrudge dealers making a profit for without profit there will be no dealers, but seller beware.

 

[JamesFrance]

Tony that guide does not give any realistic figures for selling prices, I think it is only used by insurers trying to make you accept a low replacement price if your van were to be a write off. The magazines give much higher prices when they discuss second hand values.

 

Google for a site called Leboncoin and search there for used vans on private sale, which should give a fair idea of values. Destinea is a chain of dealers with plenty of used and new campingcars for sale on their website.

[Tea Cup]

Re French MH prices.

 

My son who lives in France thinks English car prices are MUCH lower than in France.

 

I therefore assumed that this works also with MH. The only ones that I have seen priced (dealers don't seem to ticket the windows in France) seemed quite pricey.. I guess that price guides are one way to gauge, but how would you really know? It's a lot of money to throw around. And dealers would not help you.

 

Buying a secondhand van abroad is a step beyond my limits. But there must be some way to establish a level playing field.

[prg236]

As British people living in France we have done a lot of research on buying a motorhome here or in the UK and the UK comes out far better on prices, by a mile. This goes for all new and secondhand vehicles in France - they are much more expensive than in the UK. We are returning next week to pick up our Hymer which has just been imported from Germany but still far cheaper than buying one here.

[Tea Cup]

prg236 - 2013-10-02 11:30 AM

 

As British people living in France we have done a lot of research on buying a motorhome here or in the UK and the UK comes out far better on prices, by a mile. This goes for all new and secondhand vehicles in France - they are much more expensive than in the UK. We are returning next week to pick up our Hymer which has just been imported from Germany but still far cheaper than buying one here.

 

The said son imported his own motorhome from Germany, it was a fire engine which he converted and toured Europe for a few years, till he settled down in Gascony.

 

I'd post a pic, if I knew how to.

[Guest JudgeMental]

prg236 - 2013-10-02 11:30 AM

 

As British people living in France we have done a lot of research on buying a motorhome here or in the UK and the UK comes out far better on prices, by a mile. This goes for all new and secondhand vehicles in France - they are much more expensive than in the UK. We are returning next week to pick up our Hymer which has just been imported from Germany but still far cheaper than buying one here.

 

How does importing a hymer from Germany to the UK constitute buying British!lol

 

They are approx 30% cheaper in Europe factoring in exchange rate and dealer discount *-)

[Brian Kirby]

prg236 - 2013-10-02 11:30 AM

 

As British people living in France we have done a lot of research on buying a motorhome here or in the UK and the UK comes out far better on prices, by a mile. This goes for all new and secondhand vehicles in France - they are much more expensive than in the UK. We are returning next week to pick up our Hymer which has just been imported from Germany but still far cheaper than buying one here.

Don't know where you did your research, but the list prices as shown in either of the main French mags are consistently lower that the UK list prices for the same van. Than factor in the discounts available from French dealers, and you should find a quite substantial price advantage in favour of France. However, if buying a German made van, Germany is likely to be the cheaper bet.

[Tea Cup]

JudgeMental - 2013-10-02 8:35 PM

 

 

 

They are approx 30% cheaper in Europe factoring in exchange rate and dealer discount *-)

 

I am surprised at that 30% discount. I haven't studied the market, but it certainly doesn't work in France with cars.

 

And if you buy abroad, you presumably would buy LHD, loose the convenience of a local guarantee, and have a lower resale value at home. All things to be factored in.

 

But since we spend at least 20% of our time abroad, constituting about 85% of our MH travelling, at those discounts, it would at least be worth our while checking things out. Now, where do I start?

How about a nice LHD Hobby? I wish.

 

 

[derek500]

A used price guide like the one mentioned in post one is available on line.

 

http://www.lemondeducampingcar.fr/occasion/cote-officielle/cote-officielle.html#formulaire_cote

[Dave225]

I tend to agree that prices in Euroland inavraibly are cheaper than the UK, but of course depend on the exchange rate at the time. It is worth noting however that the makes on offer will not be the same as the UK and the specs will be different. IN many cases ovens etc are not included and for many of us, that is a good thing, but to others, not.

 

If you are definitely going to move the France then yes, get a French van as insuring it etc will be a lot easier. I have heard that some French insurers will not insure UK vans as the door is 'on the wrong side'. but do not know if that is true. If you are merely dabbling then consider where you are likely to do most of your touring before making a choice. Taking a French vehicle back t the dealer for repairs etc may not be quite so easy, but again could be combined with a holiday so maybe not an issue.

 

By the way if you are seriously thinking of moving to France , do your homework. Do not be tempted by those lovely pictures in estate agents windows showing blue skies and lovely homes etc. Old chateaux/mills need lots of work and avoid anything with lots of land as you will be liable for any upkeep, leaving it as wild land is not always an option. Any 'ruins' on the land may turn out to be listed and need money as well. That is one of the reasons why so many are up for sale, the French are not stupid. They all buy small 2/3 bedroom bungalows on small plots so that maybe the way to go. Also get a good lawyer and tax accountant as the French tax system is unrelenting in getting the money out of you. Mr Hollande has also had thoughts about taxing 2nd homes etc to raise money for his socialist ideas. Unless you are over 65 you will also need to pay health insurance.

 

We have also dreamed looking in the windows but met far too many expats trying to get out to make us do the deed. Much prefer to be a tourist and leave when I like.

[dilly]

Maybe a bit late in this thread but for what its worth..... I live in France and am also looking for a motorhome . The debate re UK or French in my head is still un settled. I post below links for the same sort of spec van .

This in UK

http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/used-motorhomes/chausson/welcome/2012-chausson-welcome-78-diesel-mfpa-8ac196a0434e65e2014372d6120e24ac/makemodel/make/chausson/model/welcome priced at £40,000 and this on French ebay

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/campingcar-chausson-2012-/191054042297?pt=FR_JG_Automobiles_V%C3%A9hicules_Loisir&hash=item2c7bb554b9 priced at E49000 which converts to exactly the same price. OF course in the UK you could negotiate with the dealer a discount whereas the ebay price may not have even reached its reserve yet. Remember though that if you want to insure your vehicle as a French resident you will have to have it matriculated and registered for its carte gris (log book) . Both of these will cost you hundreds of euros. My impression of used vehicle prices in France is that they are more expensive than UK but when you factor in the above, there is not a lot to choose and of course if you are buying in France it will be left hand drive.

 

 

[gocro]

Unless your van is new and you LURVE it , there is no advantage in trying to take it with you to France. There was a recent article in MMM detailing the process, typically bureaucratic.

We have been trawling the French websites to get an idea of the prices, on the open market they seem to be around the same as here, perhaps better equipment but poor cooking facilities.

[Retread24800]

    Sorry Tony me old mate, but the used prices quoted in Camping-car, le Monde du Camping-car etc. are the residual values ie the trade in price. A quick look at the small ads will give a better idea of the purchase price. Its good to know both when negotiating to buy, shows the usual scandalous dealer mark up. Almost wants to make you burst into their place of work and upset their tables!

If only the UK drove on the correct side of the road I would be buying my second hand car there, but would have to put up with the salt damage usually associated with UK Vehicles. as for new car discounts look here  http://www.autodiscount.fr/mandataires-FORD-FIESTA-6-5351-all.php

 

[Billggski]

Interesting....... And inconclusive, but I know judgemental has put his money where his mouth is and is picking up his next van abroad this week, anyone else actually done it as well?

There are so many variables, exchange rates, discounts, depreciation and specifications.

My own tactic was to look for a bargain, but try and avoid the scams. (There seems to be one on eBay at the moment, daft price for a 2010 with only text messages allowed)

[Retread24800]

 Just did a quick check on dealer prices  on a Hymer T 698 CL 2014 model with the optional Front bed

UK =£64,314

France=£50,340 (£49,000 without the extra bed!)

Or 28% mark up. What happened to Hymers promise ?

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

LMCC November 2013 quotes the Hymer T 698 2.3 130 ps as €59,980 "key in hand". Your dealer price would seem to include a healthy discount, along the lines obtainable in Germany. Hymer's promise was, I think, that they would harmonise prices across borders, except for VAT differences, or some such?

 

Maybe, but when we were trying to buy ours from Premier Motorhomes, who were extremely helpful, we found that just delivery to UK costs £1,000 more than delivery to German dealers. Then there is the fixed exchange rate that is applied by Hymer, which is only varied in fairly coarse steps, apparently so that published prices do not continually have to be changed. The UK dealers are not charged the factory gate price on the day of dispatch, converted to Sterling at that days exchange rate, but Hymer's rate.

 

As an aside, I heard from another source that the whole sales side is handled by a financial services company who pay Hymer as units leave the factory, and then make arrangements with dealers for stock and direct sales at prices of their choosing. For probably obvious reasons, I have no corroboration of that tale. However, from Hymer's point of view it seems quite a sensible deal, so I guess it may be true.

 

However that may work, there is then the discount that the various dealers give, which from the scale of discounting available to retail customers in Germany, I assume must be deep. It seems that either the UK dealers are working to higher margins, or the volume discounts they are offered by Hymer are less favourable, or a combination of both.

 

The outcome was that it paid me handsomly to buy ours via Bundesvan, who bought from a German dealer, went and collected it, imported it, changed the speedo dial and lights as necessary, registered it, and delivered it to our house, for £5,000 (about 7.5% of the purchase price) less than poor old Premier wanted at best. I told them what I was being offered, and they very graciously threw in the towel!

 

Bear in mind that what I paid includes Bundesvan's oncost, plus profit to the German dealer. Even comparing the priced catalogues on a strict like for like basis, the German price in €, converted at an exchange rate of only 1.17, was £4,000 cheaper than the UK catalogue price!

 

If wanting to buy in France, I think one would have to visit French dealers and see what they offer. French dealers are far more secretive than German, and are rarely open about their true prices, I think because they don't want to compete for business on the internet. The same reasoning is reflected in their "windscreen" prives for stock vehicles. Once you get them into their office, with the door closed, however, in my very limited experience the story changes and discounts may be volunteered before you begin to haggle. E-mail is useless in France for much the same reason. Business is done face to face, in private. As in Germany, deposits are around10%, and are contractual, non-refundable, first instalments on the deal.