flicka Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Wanting to ensure toilet & waste tank remain usable during winter period, I was pondering if "Screen Wash" would help to reduce the risk of freezing. Don't know if any of the chemicals in the screen wash would be detrimental, especially for the toilet holding tank. Anyone tried this or know of any problems it may cause ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I don't think it will hurt the tank John but if it contains alcohol or something similar that might well damage the rubber seals and replacing them is both expensive and 'inconvenient'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 What about fairy liquid?? Hasn't that got a low freezing point? Pp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 That's an expensive way to do it. Why not buy some cheap antifreeze and dilute it well. Screenwash will contain ethanol or methanol or both. It shouldn't affect the plastic in the toilet, but keep it well away from painted surfaces, particularly if it contains methanol. Your toilet shouldn't freeze if it's inside the van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Any 'impurity' added to water will lower the freezing point but the big question is will it be enough? Fairy liquid might work but you might also get a frothy tank which could prove interesting - but at least it should be clean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Note that standard Thetford fluid freezes at -20, not sure if it freezes in proportion to mix but might be worth asking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 colin - 2013-10-07 10:37 PM Note that standard Thetford fluid freezes at -20, not sure if it freezes in proportion to mix but might be worth asking them. Thanks for that Colin, so we should be OK for toilet & may also try some down the waste pipes, as I would normally empty the waste tanks daily during frosty periods so it shouldn't be too diluted. Although the cold does make me go more often >:-) :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 You could also add glycerine, propylene glycol. methanol or ethanol as mentioned, or good old meths. Just depositing what the loo is meant for will also lower the freezing point, but I have never had a problem, even when I accidently left it half full for a few weeks in really harsh weather. Had a devil of a job opening the locker door as all frozen up, but cassette was not frozen. So I would not worry too much as long as there is some chemical in there. I would be more concerned the fresh water pipes to the loo froze up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 flicka - 2013-10-07 10:46 PM colin - 2013-10-07 10:37 PM Note that standard Thetford fluid freezes at -20, not sure if it freezes in proportion to mix but might be worth asking them. Thanks for that Colin, so we should be OK for toilet & may also try some down the waste pipes, as I would normally empty the waste tanks daily during frosty periods so it shouldn't be too diluted. Although the cold does make me go more often >:-) :-D ... you already have the perfect answer flicka! How can I put this ... er, well .... erm ...... here goes: ... unless you are a reptile (not saying you are regardless of your forum photo! :D ;-) ) then your 'effluent' will be warm when it leaves your body so will warm the contents of the toilet cassette and prevent it from freezing!!! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docted Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 John for your waste it may be considered a good idea to leave your waste tank open with a bucket to catch and empty daily or as required. If the van gets cold enough to freeze the toilet cassette I am sure you would notice and put heating on, not just another layer, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I've been using washing up liquid for years ;-)..................and in very cold weather 8-)..............flush waters never frozen :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 This 2005 forum-thread refers to using antifreeze in a Thetford-toilet flush-tank: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Thetford-flush-antifreeze-/2710/ As far as using antifreeze in the waste-water tank is concerned, pouring some antifreeze down sink/washbasin/shower-tray outlets should help to keep the waste-pipes unfrozen, but it's questionable whether it would do much good (especially as you say you empty the waste-tank regularly) stopping the water in the tank freezing up in very cold weather. To do this you'd have to maintain a high concentration of antifreeze in the tank or (as docted suggests) sidestep the problem by 'bucketing'. For the waste-water system to remain reliably operable in arctic conditions, the waste-tank and pipework will need to be insulated and/or heatable - often not easily achievable if the tank/pipework is external. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Used to be a common problem in caravans and motorhomes with separate flush tanks. In the 90's we used a branded antifreeze from a caravan dealer and put it in the flush as well as the cassette. Looking at a caravan dealer's website, I found this advice: Anti-freeze should not be required if the caravan/motorhome is heated. If you do not wish to use anti-freeze, brands containing the following substances may be used, -Mono-propylene glycol -Ethylene glycol -Mono-ethylene glycol -Propane-diol -Glycerol -Ethane-diol -Glycol NEVER use alcohol based anti-freeze, i.e Methanol, Ethanol and Iso-propanol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Put some loo liquid (in a container !!) and see if and what concentration it freezes in the freezer. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 You could always try good old fashioned salt in the waste tank and waste pipes as salt water has a much lower freezing point I don't see it doing any harm and its relatively cheap (if it works pelmetman will give it a try.) John 8-) :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Carfull with salt I recall hearing that salt on roads only works down to about -4C and then freezes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I believe Thetford's advice about adding anti-freeze relates primarily to a toilet's flush-water reservoir rather than to the toilet cassette. I can envisage the water in a toilet's flush-water reservoir freezing in very cold weather, and antifreeze being added to the reservoir to combat this, but I would think that, when a motorhome's toilet is regularly being used, the chances of the contents of a toilet cassette freezing are minimal. I'm pretty sure that flicka's Adria has no flush-water reservoir, with the toilet being flushed by water pumped from the motorhome's main fresh-water tank. If that's correct, there's likely to be a significantly greater risk of the water (that can't have antifeeze added to it) in the pipework leading to the toilet freezing than the stuff in the cassette. I don't recall any mention of the contents of a toilet-cassette freezing and I believe the likelihood of this happening is sufficiently small that the idea of deliberately adding antifreeze to the cassette can be discarded. There's useful general advice here: http://www.motorcaravanning.com/vehicles/waste.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Hi; is this idea compatible with the normal functioning of sewage works? Would introduction of such chemicals disrupt the normal aerobic/anaerobic action of your local sewage works; let alone septic tank systems? regards alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 If everybody were pouring antifreeze down their household sinks, washbasins, baths and toilets, I guess it might affect sewage treatment plants. And if every caravanner/motorcaravanner were doing the same with their leisure vehicles it quite probably could affect campsites that rely on septic tanks. But not many UK caravanners/motorcaravanners use their leisure vehicles in really, really cold weather and those that regularly do will either use the 'bucket' technique or have waste-water tanks that are frost-protected and/or can be heated. My own view is that Flicka's 'antifreeze' proposal is not worth pursuing but, if he did choose to do this, I can't see other people following suit. I very much doubt that one person's use of the method would have any harmful effect on sewage works or septic tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 snowie - 2013-10-09 1:20 PM Hi; is this idea compatible with the normal functioning of sewage works? Would introduction of such chemicals disrupt the normal aerobic/anaerobic action of your local sewage works; let alone septic tank systems? regards alan b Which is why using washing up liquid is the best idea ;-)....... No extra chemical to cart around as you always have washing up liquid on board.... No effect on sewage works as its no different to your grey waste... Never had it freeze yet and we have been so cold our gas froze.......but not the bog.... Plus super effective at stopping klingons... But best of all its cheap :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Now convinced it is not one of my brighter ideas. Van has internal fresh water tank under 1/2 dinette seat with toilet/shower immediately to the rear, so a very short run. After checking the warm air ducting runs through the toilet /shower with a vent & continues under the 1/2 dinette between the van wall & the fresh water tank, so although the tank is not insulated there should be sufficient heat transfer to ward off any freezing. I have to admit I had not considered the effects of where the waste water would go, so I'll revert to the bucket method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 About the sewerage question, while adding anti-freeze to the K7 might possibly cause difficulties to someone's septic tank a far more dangerous fluid is regularly used by caravanners which definitely will cause damage ..............Toilet blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-10-09 2:02 PM snowie - 2013-10-09 1:20 PM Hi; is this idea compatible with the normal functioning of sewage works? Would introduction of such chemicals disrupt the normal aerobic/anaerobic action of your local sewage works; let alone septic tank systems? regards alan b Which is why using washing up liquid is the best idea ;-)....... No extra chemical to cart around as you always have washing up liquid on board.... No effect on sewage works as its no different to your grey waste... Never had it freeze yet and we have been so cold our gas froze.......but not the bog.... Plus super effective at stopping klingons... But best of all its cheap :D Where have you got the idea from that washing-up liquid in diluted form (presumably you don't fill your toilet's flushing reservoir with 'neat' washing-up liquid) makes an effective antifreeze? There's a longish article here http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Windshield-Washer-Fluid that covers DIYing windscreen-washer fluid. Using 'dish soap' is mentioned as a constituent, but not to prevent the mixture freezing. As a toilet's flushing reservoir will be within the motorhome, it's reasonably well protected from cold and (particularly with older style bench-type Thetford toilets) it would take very cold weather to cause that water to freeze. If you've been using butane and your motorhome's gas system ceased working in very cold weather as a result, but your toilet's water system continued to function, I've no difficulty believing that. But I question that the washing-up liquid was performing magic - it's probable the toilet's water would not have frozen without the washing-up liquid in it. Of course, if you'd been using propane and the weather was so cold that your gas system ceased working, that's another matter. But you'd have to have been motorcaravanning in the Antarctic for that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Pelmetman forgot to mention one crucial fact about his old van Derek.................It has an outside bucket and chuckit dunny. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-10-10 9:09 AM If you've been using butane and your motorhome's gas system ceased working in very cold weather as a result, but your toilet's water system continued to function, I've no difficulty believing that. But I question that the washing-up liquid was performing magic - it's probable the toilet's water would not have frozen without the washing-up liquid in it. Of course, if you'd been using propane and the weather was so cold that your gas system ceased working, that's another matter. But you'd have to have been motorcaravanning in the Antarctic for that to happen. Fair comment Derek ;-).................. I've no intention of heading for the Antarctic............our gas locker is in a similar position to our loo at the back of the van, albeit on the opposite side.........and when our gas froze the back of the van had been exposed to a freezing wind :-S.................so based on that experience, I'm happy that it helps plus the other advantages that I flagged up still stand.............especially the cheap bit:D................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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