Fearmor Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 I've had a look at several enormous American motorhomes in showrooms with notes on the windows stating that they can be driven in the UK on an ordinary car driving licence. I find this incredible as my ordinary car driving licence only allows me to drive vehicles up to 3½ tonnes gross. Do motorhomes come into some special category as far as driving licences are concerned or should I be looking at taking a LGV or PCV driving test? I'd like to know the precise position before I write out my cheque for £50,000.00. -- Fear Mor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Hi fearmor, I would suggest you start by reading www.direct.gov.uk/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/WhatCanYouDriveArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10037875&chk=rzmt4D which clarifies the quirk for large motorhomes. Then also check out www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/dcsc/educadvi/spedlimi.htm#detailed That clarifies your permitted speed limits with these vehicles which is different to ordinary motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsandywhite Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 If you passed your driving test before 1 January 1997 and have the vehicle category C1 on your licence you can drive a vehicle of a weight between 3500kg to 7500kg MAM with a small trailer weighing up to 750kg. If you have the vehicle category C1+E you can drive a vehicle of a weight between 3500kg to 7500kg MAM with a trailer weighing up to 750kg or a combined weight, vehicle and trailer, of up to 8250kg MAM. If you passed your driving test on or after the 1 January 1997 you are limited to driving vehicles up to 3500kg MAM, having not more than 8 passenger seats with a trailer up to 750kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Hi the answer is wrong with regards to a C1+E . If you have a C1+E licence you can drive up to 7500 mam with a trailer up to 4500kg mam. From the DVLA site. "Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer over 750kg - total weight not more than 12000kg" Mind you there's plenty of people driving an RV over 7500Kg on a car licence, but lets not go there. (lol) (lol) (lol) Olley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Hi Olley, I think you are confusing motorhomes and lorries there and JSW is correct. This as cut and pasted from the DVLA site specifically related to motorhomes as in my previous post:- What’s on your driving licence? If you passed your driving test before 1 January 1997 and have the vehicle category C1 on your licence you can drive a vehicle of a weight between 3500kg to 7500kg MAM with a small trailer weighing up to 750kg. If you have the vehicle category C1+E you can drive a vehicle of a weight between 3500kg to 7500kg MAM with a trailer weighing up to 750kg or a combined weight, vehicle and trailer, of up to 8250kg MAM. If you passed your driving test on or after the 1 January 1997 you are limited to driving vehicles up to 3500kg MAM, having not more than 8 passenger seats with a trailer up to 750kg Regards Bas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsandywhite Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 [QUOTE]Basil - 2006-08-19 11:25 AM This is cut and pasted from the DVLA site specifically related to motorhomes:-[/QUOTE] B-) You are 100% correct. (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Hi a motorhome/RV over 3500kg is classed by the DVLA for licencing purposes as an HGV. and this is from the DVLA web site. C1+E Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer over 750kg - total weight not more than 12000kg C1 Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer up to 750kg There is no specific classification for a motorhome/RV, my 9350kg MAM winnebago is a PHGV on the log book and according to them needs C Licence. DVLA site http://www.direct.gov.uk/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/WhatCanYouDriveArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=4022547&chk=oQylE9 Olley Ps I see where the confusion is. if like me you past your B test before 1/1/97 your granfather rights C1+E is restricted to 8250KG, if you have taken your C1+E test since then its 7500mam plus 4500kg trailer So does this mean that for a new driver over 21 you have to take a B, C1 and then a C test to drive over 7500kg's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Have a look at this link, which is motorhome specific. I think there may be some confusion arising because some correspondents have added license categories that others don't.http://www.direct.gov.uk/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/WhatCanYouDriveArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10037875&chk=rzmt4DThis is the link Basil referred to in his post above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Olley, Don't know about your statements but the DVLA have a dedicated section headed "Driving Motorhomes" and that coresponds with JSW's origional statement and the one that I have cut and pasted from their site. Now whether there is a seperate catagory for motorhomes from lorries or not, I would say that the mear fact that there is HGV and PHGV suggests a difference, the DVLA appear to consider that what they have on their website is the fact for motorhomes as against lorries so that is what I would follow. At the end of the day people will do whatever they want, even drive/ use illegal sized vehicles but eventually there will be a clamp down I suspect and as with the oversize vehicles some may suffer. Regards Baz Yes Brian that was the link I specified in the first place that Olley does not appear to take heed of. Sorry crossed posts I think Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Hi, there is no specific license for a M/H or RV. As far as the DVLA are concerned you are an LGV. The PHGV or PLGV classification is only for taxation purposes, not the type of license required. Which for M/H RV's is based on weight and when you passed your test. The site you are quoting is confusing, as I pointed out in the PS on my previous post it. pass your B test before 1/1/97 its grandfather rights to C1+e max 7500kg plus 750kg trailer, pass the C1+E after and its 7500kg plus trailer of up to 4500kg Olley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Quote ""The site you are quoting is confusing, as I pointed out in the PS on my previous post it. pass your B test before 1/1/97 its grandfather rights to C1+e max 7500kg plus 750kg trailer, pass the C1+E after and its 7500kg plus trailer of up to 4500kg"" With respect not according to DVLA site http://www.direct.gov.uk/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/WhatCanYouDriveArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=4022547&chk=oQylE9 section on Medium sized vehicles with or without trailers where in the second section it states Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer over 750kg - total weight not more than 12000kg (if you passed your category B test prior to 1.1.1997 you will be restricted to a total weight not more than 8250kg) PS sorry did not see your ps added to your previous post till after I wrote this but what is being said seems to confirm that what JSW said is correct doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Hi Olley, I have also only just realised that you are saying your Winnibago is 9350kg MAM so is that not over the limit for a cat C license? Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Hi bas, yes he is for pre 1/1/97 B licence holders, I assume there is now a C1 or C1+E test where the higher limits would apply. Why you would take this and not a C or C+E I don't know, unless as I said before you have to, before you can take a C. A C licence is a full rigid HGV licence, a C+E includes artic's, I took mine about 3 months ago, cost about a £1000 ouch. :'( You have to do the C before you can do the C+E. olley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsandywhite Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 :-D I took my first driving test in Singapore and was given a licence to drive Class 1. They changed it later. But I still have my old licence. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Was that before or after the Japanese invaded? (lol) (lol) (lol) Olley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 I know this post is about big vehicles but why is the posting wider than my computer screen when the other postings aren't. Are you lot showing off because you're wider than everyone else???!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsandywhite Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 [QUOTE]olley - 2006-08-19 5:21 PM Was that before or after the Japanese invaded? (lol) (lol) (lol) Olley[/QUOTE] (lol) (lol) (lol) B-) Mel B. I think it was because of the very BIG link above. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearmor Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 [QUOTE]Basil - 2006-08-19 12:59 PM Olley, At the end of the day people will do whatever they want, even drive/ use illegal sized vehicles but eventually there will be a clamp down I suspect and as with the oversize vehicles some may suffer. [/QUOTE] This is a very serious issue and should be clarified with the DVLA. Driving without the proper licence is a very serious criminal offence but more importantly it may invalidate the insurance cover on the vehicle. Some of these motorhomes can cost over £100,000.00 and suppose one were seriously damaged in an accident and it transpired that the driver was not properly licensed, the insurance company may well not pay out and we all know how keen insurers are to avoid paying out if they can find the slightest excuse. If a valuable car or other valuable property were damaged in the accident, the driver may be held personally liable for the cost of putting matters right. -- Fear Mor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsandywhite Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 :-D Hi Fearmor. The BIG problem is. That Motorhomes are a GREY area. The original legislation perhaps did not take into consideration the size that some of the Motorhomes would become. No one (as far as I know?) has ever been prosecuted or had Insurance claims refused based on the size of the Motorhome or licence held to drive it? 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Maybe no one has been prosecuted, but do I not recall a case last year where a couple have lost their home and everything to pay the legal expenses involved in trying to get redress against a dealer who sold an illegal to use American RV and lost the case?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsandywhite Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 8-) That's not what this thread is about. That is a different story all together. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 JSW you raised the issue by saying that no one has been prosecuted bsed on the size of van. As the origional thread writer, who is clearly new to this subject, is asking questions about the size of new vehicles I believe that after you made that comment it is totally relevent. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Hi Bas, if you really are bored this afternoon (lol) read the full transcript of the appeal court's judgement. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/judgmentsfiles/j2455/bramhill-v-edwards.htm Basically they decided that A: it's not illegal to drive an over width RV B: it's not illegal to sell them and C: being over width is not a reason for the insurance companies to avoid the policy. Getting back to the license issue, the only case that ever went to court concerned a Travelworld driver who was driving an over 7.5 tonne RV on a car license, on the day of the court case the DVLA withdrew the case citing lack of evidence. Which is strange, considering the driver admitted the offence. Doesn't prove it one way or the other, only that the DVLA aren’t sure either. Olley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsandywhite Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 [QUOTE]olley - 2006-08-21 2:23 PM Doesn't prove it one way or the other, only that the DVLA aren’t sure either. [/QUOTE] B-) I rest my case M'Lord. (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Hi olley, I will read that, not got time at the mo though thanks for the link I googled for something on it myself but nothing came up, be interesting to learn as I had only heard a part of it on a radio broadcast that I turned on halfway through, hence why I asked the question in my post. I don't have an axe to grind either way but I do think someone new asking for info should learn what has gone down in the past to be able to make an informed decision, particularly if something is mentioned by another poster that gives relevance, after all Fearmor has suggested he has his cheque book in hand ready to buy. Does the case you cited become precedence for other cases or does the fact that they dropped it mean it cannot be used so meaning there has still never been a test case do you know? Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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