Driving a large motorhome on a car licence.

[david lloyd]

Hi Basil I would imagine there is no precedence set since the case did not get heard. david

[olley]

Hi Bas, as it didn't go to court no precedent was set, that’s what the DVLA were afraid of if they had lost. As John said no driver has to our knowledge be refused a payout on the insurance for driving with a car licence. When I first bought it last year I was refused by two companies, one because of the weight, and the other because of the engine size, over 8 litres. As fearmor said its an important issue, but the DVLA don't make the law, they only interprete it, which is what they say at the bottom of their site. Olley

[dhutch]

johnsandywhite - 2006-08-21 9:49 AM

The BIG problem is. That Motorhomes are a GREY area. The original legislation perhaps did not take into consideration the size that some of the Motorhomes would become. No one (as far as I know?) has ever been prosecuted or had Insurance claims refused based on the size of the Motorhome or licence held to drive it?

8-)

olley - 2006-08-21 6:24 PM

 

Hi Bas, as it didn't go to court no precedent was set, that’s what the DVLA were afraid of if they had lost.

 

As fearmor said its an important issue, but the DVLA don't make the law, they only interprete it, which is what they say at the bottom of their site.

 

I am slightly confused here.

 

- A lot of people who feel should know, are saying that you can drive basically anyone as long as its registered as a motorhome.

- The DVLA site appears to make it quite clear that how its registered doesnt matter, its down to the weight and you need a C1 or C if its over 3.5 or 7.5 ton.

- People here are citing that while the DVLA site is clear and an interpretation of the law, its not the hard and fast law.

 

There is a exemption for coaches/buses over 30yo, but as a post 97 Cat B holder, where do I stand if I want to drive a converted coach, 8 passenger seats, not over 30 years old.

 

 

 

Daniel

[AlanS]

I thought that the Gov.UK site was quite clear on the subject of what licence was need to drive a motorhome (last updated 19 November 2014). Also it is interesting to see at the bottom of their page on the subject 'Motorhome Size limits' it suggests that motorhomes over 3.0 meres in height should have a warning sign in the cab where the driver can see it - neither my previous AutoTrail nor my new one which re both over this height have this notice attached.

 

See the following

 

https://www.gov.uk/driving-motorhome

 

Alan

[Brian Kirby]

I think it is fairly simple, though not necessarily clear. The government makes a law, the government departments and agencies then try to interpret it (aided by guidance advising how it should be interpreted), and then something happens and the courts get to decide what it really means (until the outcome of another case, or a higher court decision, results in that decision being changed). Hence that well known phrase: plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. :-)

 

Just make the most reasonable interpretation you can, based on the published advice from the government department/agency - without trying to be "clever" - and stop obsessing over points of law that would keep a Mexican army of barristers on "refreshers" for the next decade. :-D

 

PS, and stop referring back to 2006 legal-ish strings, where the published advice has been changed in the meantime! :-D

[PeteH]

Hi

 

So confusing!. My situation was that because of a "Cock-up" by our dear friends at DVLA. I lost my Entitlement to my FULL "Class1". Which would have allowed me to drive my R-V and tow my car on the trailer.

 

But that licence, had they not "***** up". had the provision that I could have under code C1+E driven a Gross train of 12.0tonne. However Post 1997 (I think) that was downgraded to 8.25tonne. UNLESS you took a Test and Medical. at which stage the 12.0t was reinstated/retained.

 

I elected to do a Re-take (age 58). in order to drive the rig. and as it made no difference financially I took a FULL C1+E (the old "class 1"). Which then added to my income stream doubling as a Part time Agency Driver!!

 

There is still another anomaly in this, in that if you check the licence rules A D1+E (minibuses) can still have a Train weight of 12.0tonne. without the need to take a further test.

 

So you cannot take your 9t Motor-home Rig with your Family on board on the roads without a further test. BUT you can drive a minibus with up to 15? Non related Kids tow a bunch of camping stuff. be over 7.25tonne and still be legal!!

 

This only applies to those who took their driving test BEFORE 1997?.

 

Pete

 

Edited because I got a date wrong? and some Spellin!!

[StuartO]

These various limitations, especially on Gross Train Weight, are complicated and above all they make no practical or safety sense - rather they are the result of compromises introduced for reasons of"fairness" at transitional times. the net result is a dog's breakfast of ever more complex rules and dispensations which become almost impossible to keep track of.

 

I have been driving a 3,900 kg MH with a 1,400 kg car transporter trailer and I was thinking of up-sizing to a big Carthago Liner which has a MAM of 7,495 kg, just inside the limit of my C1+E licence. But it seems that if I do that I will either have to down-plate the Carthago by 650 kg to continue towing the car trailer or limit myself to towing no more than 750kg, despite the fact that I have a "+E" licence.

 

And someone suggests that these restrictions would be different for the D1+E part of my licence.

[PeteH]

Hi

 

I asked that question of DVLA. Their reply was that a "Motor-home does NOT qualify as a Minibus".!!!!

 

Even though its has similar facilities. Passenger seating for one!! and sometimes a toilet? too

 

( I sometimes think DVLA Translates as "Drivel(from) Very Large A`***les)

 

Pete

[Brian Kirby]

PeteH - 2015-04-01 11:53 AM

 

Hi

 

I asked that question of DVLA. Their reply was that a "Motor-home does NOT qualify as a Minibus".!!!!................Pete

But what on earth made you think it might so qualify?

 

The driving licence regulations define the vehicles you can drive by category and by weight.

 

A minibus is separately defined as a passenger vehicle, designed to carry between 8 and 30 people.

 

A mororhome is again separately defined as a passenger vehicle, that has to be equipped with, at minimum:

1. a door that provides access to the living accommodation;

2. a bed, which has a minimum length of 1800mm or 6 feet. This can be converted from seats used for other purposes during the day but must be permanently fixed within the body of the vehicle;

3. a water storage tank or container on, or in, the vehicle;

4. a seating and dining area, permanently attached to the vehicle. The table may be detachable but must have some permanent means of attachment to the vehicle. It is not good enough to have a loose table;

5. a permanently fixed means of storage, a cupboard, locker or wardrobe;

6. a permanently fixed cooking facility within the vehicle, powered by gas or electricity; and

7. at least one window on the side of the accommodation.

Clearly, this is not, nor ever could be, confused with a minibus. The argument that it might be seems entirely spurious to me. Sorry.

[PJay]

PeteH - 2015-04-01 11:53 AM

 

Hi

 

I asked that question of DVLA. Their reply was that a "Motor-home does NOT qualify as a Minibus".!!!!

 

Even though its has similar facilities. Passenger seating for one!! and sometimes a toilet? too

 

( I sometimes think DVLA Translates as "Drivel(from) Very Large A`***les)

 

Pete

 

Pete, is there a point to this question? Have you reached 70 when problems can arrive in license ?

Do you still need to drive a LARGE vehicle? We drive our van on a car licence up to 3500 because we are over 70, would not want to drive anything bigger, as we like to go on normal roads, which are quiet often up to 3500 ton only

PJay

[PeteH]

Hi

 

The point only being that. On the face of it there is NO difference in the Vehicle being driven in terms of drive-ability. Only in Specification of its internal feature(s). The weight`s sizes etc; are equal BUT one is allowed the other is not.?.

 

To add to that My Opinion is that the "Mini bus" is has a greater potential hazard than the Motor home, As I pointed out Your motor-home is loosely classed as a restricted "Lorry". The minibus can potentially carry up to 16 persons. And tow it`s own weight in "gear". ? which presents the greater hazard?.

 

I know what I think.

 

My current personal situation is that IF I can find something under 3.5t fine. If not I will get my C and C1 back, But I resent very much the "ageism" of the fact that I have to have a Medical, which I will pass with ease, But far more the INSULT of being required to foot the bill!!

 

Not all of us become totally GaGa after Midnight on the day we reach 70!!. Though in my case I get ANGRY at people (especially "officials") who think we do!

 

Pete

[pepe63xnotuse]

PeteH - 2015-04-05 7:32 PM

 

But I resent very much the "ageism" of the fact that I have to have a Medical, which I will pass with ease, and the INSULT of being required to foot the bill!!

 

Pete

 

Eh?..."ageism"?..are you having a laugh?.. 8-)

So what would you call the ridiculous situation of "Grand father rights" then?...with folk "of a certain age", being allowed to drive vehicles up to 7.5T without one jot of additional training, never mind a test! *-)..

 

..and still some whinge about having to fork out for a pish easy medical..

[pepe63xnotuse]

Oops..fumble thumbs.

[PeteH]

Hi

 

My Opinion. Yours may differ. The UK is a very "ageist" place in the 21st century.

 

Increased insurance costs, Increased Travel Costs, Reduced access to services. AUTOMATIC relegation to the status of "Geriatric" after age 70. Shall I go On?

 

And don't forget the "Government" has now decreed that all will have to work to 70 in future. despite having paid for 50+ years for a pension!!.

 

Under any other situation it would be illegal and even regarded like "Racism"?.

 

As For "Grandfather Rights". IF you cared to read my earlier post(s) Mine was removed by the incompetence to the bureaucracy. So I had to "fork out" AGAIN to get back what was (IMHO Illegally) removed. My Competence was not in question, I re-past first time with the loss of 2 points. But then I was/had been driving a multitude of vehicles over many years in Foreign Parts!! and had licences issued in 4 countries.

 

Pete

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

PeteH - 2015-04-12 7:12 PM..................As For "Grandfather Rights". IF you cared to read my earlier post(s) Mine was removed by the incompetence to the bureaucracy. So I had to "fork out" AGAIN to get back what was (IMHO Illegally) removed................Pete

However, had you challenged DVLA with proof that you had those licence categories on your licence originally, they would have been obliged to reinstate them at no cost to you. So, why didn't you do that? It was clearly their mistake, and it was you it affected.