philiphd77 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Hi, we're looking for our first motorhome. But the children haven't left home yet so we need 3 seat belts in the back - 5 in total. Not after a huge van though. We'd like the flexibility of using it as a second car (plenty of drive space). The plan is for the kids to have pup tents - which I think they'd find fun. Besides one of those roller blind style side canopy awning thingys that's all we're after. Is the 'small but 5 seat belts' combo too much to ask? Can anyone advise on suitable models please? Struggling to know where to start at the moment! Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 A lot of the VW based conversions (and the Hyundai from Wellhouse Leisure) have a rock n roll rear seat with three belts pluss the two at the front. I'm guessing that this is the size van you need if you are going to use as a second vehicle? NEC show on next week, worth a look? Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 philiphd77 - 2013-10-09 8:04 AM Hi, we're looking for our first motorhome. But the children haven't left home yet so we need 3 seat belts in the back - 5 in total. Not after a huge van though. We'd like the flexibility of using it as a second car (plenty of drive space). The plan is for the kids to have pup tents - which I think they'd find fun. Besides one of those roller blind style side canopy awning thingys that's all we're after. Is the 'small but 5 seat belts' combo too much to ask? Can anyone advise on suitable models please? Struggling to know where to start at the moment! Phil. Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Phil. For any useful feedback, you'll first need to define what your idea of a "small" motorhome is. It's easy enough to identify vehicles that meet your "...small but 5 seat belts combo..." requirement. All you need do is obtain a copy of MMM magazine, turn to the Buyers' Guide section and browse through the Small Motorhome/Camper section looking for models with 5 seatbelts. As bolero boy advises, these will usually be based on a VW Transporter chassis with lengths ranging from 4.40metres to 5.30 metres, though Wellhouse Leisure's I800 (Hyundai base) would be an alternative. http://www.wellhouseleisure.com/hyundai/ As far as I'm concerned, such vehicles are definitely 'campers' not 'motorhomes', but, if you want 5 seat belts, a vehicle small enough to genuinely be considered as a go-anywhere 2nd car, and you can off-load your children into tents when you stop, a VW/Hyundai camper would seem to be the logical (perhaps only) solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiphd77 Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Thanks both for useful info - will pick up the mag on my way home today. What I mean by small... the high top vans are just about big enough, but I think the low profile 'coachbuilts' maybe where I end up. Done a little research and the A-class vans seem to offer more flexibility of accommodation though... On the VW the kitchen provision seems really small - more park up and have a cup of tea than camp and cook for a week. Definitely want a layout that enables some serious cooking. It's the sleeping we're flexible on- happy with 2-4 berths because of using pup tents. I just want more seatbelts than berths. Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiphd77 Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Really like to look of hte Hyundai. 3 seaatbelts in the back (though a bit squashed). Concern is over the Kitchen size - cooking smells getting into roof bed space - and loo... Would like an integrated loo really. This is helping me crystallise my thoughts - thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Ok, so that redefines things a little. As Derek says, the WV 'type' vans are generally the only type with 5 belted seats in the small category. If you look at PVCs you will, generally, get 4 belted seats, two in the cab and two in the half dinette. If you need that fifth belt then you may have to move to a van with a double dinette that accommodates 4 belted seats tho you are starting to move up in size(and price) especially as you mentioned A classes. The Hymer Exsis-I 644 may fit the bill http://www.hymer.com/de/modelle/integrierte/hymer-exsis-i/informieren.html&singleview=317#.UlUhp8u9KSM but I could only find this on the German part of the site although I'm sure I saw one at Highbrige earlier this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 If you want to use it regularly as a second vehicle then the larger the van the more problems arise, mainly parking. AFAIK there is no reason you can't fit the standard double passenger front passenger seat to any van, this will give three front seats, but will compromise some layouts and restrict access from cab to rear. My initial thoughts are East Nuek, they have made vans with rear lounge that has traveling seats, so you could have a SWB or MWB van if you fit the double front seat. Then there's the Autocruise Accent in LWB, once again you will have to fit double front seat, but you will get plenty of seating/eating area on site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Could be that a caravan suits your needs better than a motorhome whilst kids are still at home. That way you could have the vehicle with 5 seats for use every day and a caravan that would sleep 5 with toilet etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 shaggy - 2013-10-09 12:48 PM Could be that a caravan suits your needs better than a motorhome whilst kids are still at home. That way you could have the vehicle with 5 seats for use every day and a caravan that would sleep 5 with toilet etc. I think shaggy's idea is best. The rear seats of most vans are not very comfy traveling for anyone ie. no adjustments either up, down, forward or backward. Also in this day and age I would not like the idea of my children sleeping in tents (depending on their ages) even if it is just outside the door. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Or... if the caravan idea is a none starter, what about a tidy "crew-van",semi kitted out as a "camping-van" and used along with a decent sized awning? eg.: http://www.khyam.co.uk/detail.asp?p=791&product=Motordome Sleeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 How about this? ;-)........... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAZDA-BONGO-2-5-TD-4X4-EMOTION-CAMPER-/171145889621?pt=UK_Campers_Caravans_Motorhomes&hash=item27d9170755 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I would support the caravan suggestion. Trying to live with 2 kids in a VW camper on a wet day will be impossible, you need a bit of space to allow everyone to breathe. As mentioned this allows you to get a tow vehicle that is of the MPV type, and remove the rear seats for carrying clobber. Also having to pack everything away on a site just to visit the shops will again eventually drive you nuts. Do remember kids will need toys to amuse themselves, so you need space. Get a 2nd hand caravan as these are relatively cheap and you will be less concerned when drinks get spilled or furniture gets scratched. Plus do be aware VW campers are very expensive and a VW California for example is close to £45K up. Get the motorhome when there are just 2 of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I had only read the first few posts before coming to the same conclusion as others about the caravan option, quite apart from the restriction of trying to find a compact MH with five 3-belt travelling seats, I would question where you would then have sufficient payload for all your gear. I would suggest something like a smallish people carrier/minibus type vehicle, or a small camper with the 'rock and roll' bed giving the number of seatbelts you need. That way you have the option of going away just in the camper yourselves for a break. A people carrier/minibus/camper type of vehicle would allow you to travel in that and put some of your gear in it too, combined with a reasonably sized caravan (it would appear that you have the drive space for it!) you would have the option of going off site without a problem and also using it as a second car would be much easier. A camper would still allow you to take some of your facilities with you (ie stove, sink etc) so if you go out for the day, you can still make drinks, have lunch etc in comfort. Out of interest why are you actually considering a MH??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie gibblebucket Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 A caravan can be used as a spare bedroom, a den where older kids can invite their mates around and have a bit of independence from mum and dad, as well as being a good holiday solution for the family. It may be worth noting that not all sites will allow more than one/any pup tents on a pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiphd77 Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Thanks again for helpful replies. I've been googling / following the links. The kids are 12, 14 and 16 by the way. Caravan... It did occur to me. Reasons why not: 1. My wife hates the idea of towing a caravan. 2. Not being able to nip down the road and cook / drink tea somewhere nice. (Wife also a photographer and likes to do time lapse in odd locations at odd times.) Notwithstanding point 1 small campervan and 2nd hand caravan is an interesting proposition (though I don't have drive space for 3 vehicles). Assuming that would bust my budget though, or I'd end up with things that were liable to break down / expensive to maintain. It does strike me how low the mileage on 2nd hand vans is though. 3. Storage - would have to store it away from home (there's a covenant about parking caravans where I live... though... there do seem to be a few around). Why do we want a Motorhome? Useful prompt. Why do we want a Motorhome? 1. Cool Aunt and Uncle had one when I was a kid - sort of sowed a seed. 2. We def see ourselves spending a significant part of our time in retirement either on a narrow-boat or in one of these. Retirement is a good 10 years away, lending further credence to the caravan idea, but don't want a double hit on depreciation / had seen this as a one-off purchase. (Though reading between the lines this community seems to trade up / across vehicles quite regularly?) 3. Love the idea of buzzing off somewhere for the weekend with minimal preparation, and flexibility to go wherever / change plans on the fly. 4. Ditto evening / day. (3&4) We think it would get us out and about more. 5. I have the sort of job where on one day a week I could drive off somewhere and work from the van. Too much faff to do that with a caravan. Re. your suggestions: - Deeply hate the Mazda (though thanks for the link - taking stuff in and learning so everything helps) - Hymer looks fab - big - but wow. Def one to look at. Per advice from Mr Bolero we will go to NEC and look out for that. - East Nuek looks like a great outfit - again will look out for them at NEC. - Autocruise - a few have turned up at my local dealer. I'd rejected on the basis of only 4 seatbelts but didn't think about the twin passenger seat in the cab. This is probably a potential approach in several vans. Expensive to do? I will pop along and ask the dealer. Haven't struck up a conversation yet because I don't feel knowledgeable enough not to be taken for a ride (so to speak). Ideally there should be a tram-style double seat design where you can move the seat back forwards to create a rear facing twin option when on site! Wondering if I could do the twin seat conversion as a temporary thing and convert back to one when the first of the 3 leaves home. (Love the 2 front seats swiveling inwards thing.) - Motordome - actually that's cool. Feels a bit more attached for the kids + somewhere to keep a cassette loo. More food for thought. You've convinced me that there isn't a small-mid-sized Motorhome out there with more seat belts than berths though! Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiphd77 Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Oh - another reason for the Motorhome idea - and some context - we've been trailer tenters for about 10 years. The last time we put it up we agreed enough is enough. It takes a day to set up and a day and a half to pack up. Pure, unadulterated convenience is the next plan. Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 We had two boys who shared a two man tent outside the motorhome. However, they still came into the motorhome for the toilet and meals plus one night when there was a risk of their tent being flooded. You do not say how old your children are but if there are three [same gender?] and they are young, you might need a berth in the motorhome for when one feels unwell or falls out with the others. If your children still use booster seats or similar, check they work in any motorhome you decide to buy. Motorhome seats in the back fulfil several functions so the foam used is spongy and can really rock a booster seat. For a number of years we used the motorhomes as our only vehicle. Bit restrictive at times but with good use of public transport, it worked for us. Motorhomes are great for days out, especially country fairs, truck shows, and air shows. There is a risk that if you go too small you might as well go camping or be better off buying a caravan. Our children preferred caravanning unless we were touring Europe. They found touring in the UK in a motorhome was boring. They preferred to stay on one UK site for at least a week. On the continent, there was enough interest on the roads etc when touring. Fortunately, if you get 5 seat belts, unless you go for a small van, you should get 5 or 6 berths. Have a look at continental coachbuilts as the continentals are more likely to motorhome as a family rather than as retired Brits [retired continentals do motorhome as do British families - before anyone jumps on me!]. I love watching the Italian families motorhome. From what you say, I would have thought a caravan with an awning with sleeping quarters would be a better bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Phil, One thing that you must bear in mind is any van's usable payload. Sadly it is the case that there are many vans out there with 4 or 6 sixbelts that do not have the available payload to carry passengers in those seats. You will need to do your sums using the van's maximum allowable weight, its maximum axle weights, its mass in running order etc. etc. Sadly (again) the dealer/salesman will be of little help to you in this respect. You really should put it on a weighbridge with the family aboard before making any commitment, otherwise you risk ending up with a van that cannot safely and legally do what you want of it. Considering the ages of your kids you are not far off wanting to carry 5 adults and it will be a tricky job to find a 'small' coachbuilt that can do that, irrespective of the numbers of seatbelts that the manufacturer has fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 only one van I know of that fits the bill...takes 6 adults with belts. 500kg payload,German quality........just carry a couple of pop up tents :-D http://www.poessl-mobile.de/de/modelle/d-line/4family.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Brock - 2013-10-09 10:35 PM ..You do not say how old your children are but if there are three [same gender?] and they are young, you might need a berth in the motorhome for when one feels unwell or falls out with the others... ...The kids are 12, 14 and 16 by the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-10-10 9:21 AM Brock - 2013-10-09 10:35 PM ..You do not say how old your children are but if there are three [same gender?] and they are young, you might need a berth in the motorhome for when one feels unwell or falls out with the others... ...The kids are 12, 14 and 16 by the way... .....and here is the biggest clue to answering the whole conundrum ........in what will seem the blink of an eye you will be looking for a 3 berth, or even 2 berth van as I would never invest loads of money on what you think those teenagers are going to be interested in........ Sorry, but this is the world these days, they will not see it as cool go go off with mum and dad in a very short while and any girls of those ages will be paranoid about privacy.......small van with 4 other occupants.......? Go for a cheap van, if the all love it, great, if not, sell it for what you paid for it and then get what you really want. Don't the kids have other things that interest them, sports, swimming, clubs, mates, that make vanning seem dull? Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Camper van small enough to use a second car but with good cooking facilities and enough room and payload to carry and cater for two adults and 3 (almost) teenagers? Harsh reality is that that is indeed likely to be an impossible combination. Seeing no realistic option but to make use of a large awning or a caravan. VW / Eriba Puck is a cool combination and would probably work for you. Or you need a much bigger 'van. Why with the Mazda hating too? Bongos are a genuinely superb do-it-all vehicle at a fraction of the price of (mainly) FWD (read stuck in a damp field) German alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-10-10 8:06 AM only one van I know of that fits the bill...takes 6 adults with belts. 500kg payload,German quality........just carry a couple of pop up tents :-D http://www.poessl-mobile.de/de/modelle/d-line/4family.html Not sure if there's an official UK agent for Possl, but the Possl range is (essentially) replicated within the Globecar brand that does have UK dealerships. A Brownhills salesman once gave me the following advice. A motorhome buyer should produce a wish-list for the prospective leisure-vehicle with no more than 10 entries and, of those entries, those that are 'non-negotiable' should be identified. If, say, a fixed bed, separate shower and 5 belted seats were 'must haves', then any motorhome lacking ANY of these features MUST immediately be crossed off the shopping-list. I would have thought a motorhome 6.36m long (the same length as my Hobby and the length of the Possl/Globecar 'family' models) was too big to be considered a viable '2nd car'. I also note that no budget limitation has been mentioned. If the '2nd car' idea is a 'must have', then Phil will need to decide on the maximum dimensions of the vehicle that will be acceptable. Similarly, if he knows how much he's prepared to spend (and most people will) that's going to limit choice. I'm a mite concerned about Phil's "...there's a covenant about parking caravans where I live.." comment, as it's possible that parking a motorcaravan would also be restricted by such a covenant. There's been previous forum discussion about this (Search the forum on covenant/all posts). For example http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Restrictive-Covenants-motorhomes/3000/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Indeed Derek but we have seen the arrogance of some "my home is my castle" advocates on here many times.... if you want a van conversion and want to carry 5, your not going to achieve that in a 6 metre van. the van i posted is 6336 mm, not much more than a foot longer,something has to give. but i agree in principal..... my 6 meter van works well as a 2nd vehicle even in London. and I decided to stick with the 6 even though had gone to show fully intending to buy a 636...2 days ruminating at show changed my mind...but there are only the two of us, although kids fly over and join us from time to time, hence the pop up tent fixed under our bed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 .....and I agree, Eddie, these young people will soon be telling mum and dad (Phil) when (if) they are going camping or not. With a caravan for a year or two (maybe less) the water will be well and truly tested and the family will love it (nice new big van please) or not (how about a 6m van for mum/dad and a tent or two for the I visiting kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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