Blown Engine in France

[Corky 8]

lennyhb - 2013-10-20 1:45 PM

Corky 8 - 2013-10-20 12:35 PM

Really sorry to hear of your troubles Geoff , thats has to be everyones Nightmare, and I hope it doesnt turn out to be as expensive as first predicted, Thank you for Re enforcing my belief that Fiats are not fit for Porpose ,its only Owners reluctance to adimit they are crap that keeps them selling plus the fact they are so cheap for the converter,s to buy. Hope all goes well for you.

What a load of dribble it is a Ford/Peugeot engine that blew not a Fiat one.

So Peugeot are no longer Made in the Sevel Factory which churn out the Fiat/Citroen, and some Ford Parts. ????

[lennyhb]

The engine that blew did not come from Sevel.

At least the bodies built there are galvanised and don't rust like the Mercs.

[dawki]

lennyhb - 2013-10-20 1:45 PM

Corky 8 - 2013-10-20 12:35 PM

Really sorry to hear of your troubles Geoff , thats has to be everyones Nightmare, and I hope it doesnt turn out to be as expensive as first predicted, Thank you for Re enforcing my belief that Fiats are not fit for Porpose ,its only Owners reluctance to adimit they are crap that keeps them selling plus the fact they are so cheap for the converter,s to buy. Hope all goes well for you.

What a load of dribble it is a Ford/Peugeot engine that blew not a Fiat one.

so sorry to hear of this awful problem with your van GeoffLenny the engine that blew was in a Fiat badged van so regardless to who made the engine surely caution should given to a Fiat with one of these engines in it

[man of norfolk]

Thats a real bummer & sounds extremely expensive. It would be useful to know how many miles it had done.

 

As a retired auto and diesel engine designer, the problem with all aspects of motorhomes is that all 'vans/mall truck' chassis are really designed for partial loading and in most cases very light running. With motorhomes they either run at or even over the max GVW so are in fact highly stressed. That applies to any manufacturer including the german ones. They do test them at max GVW but of course not at very high mileages and all test programmes never really replicate the actual use.

 

So the lesson to be learnt is that despite what it says in the manufacturers service book, its a good idea to change lubricants earlier because the lubricant is being hammered and use the bst oils and not the ones from supermarkets. These supermarket oils do meet the latest test specs but what they dont say is how long for. A good quality lubricant will meet the spec for a longer period. By all means use supermarket oil but change it much sooner as there are less polymers.

 

Hope this info helps everybody.

 

ps its even more important with the most ignored item on vehicles - the brake fluid!

[Guest pelmetman]

It does make you wonder 8-)..............that all the major manufacturers are in theory working together to produce a van ;-).................yet they've failed to succeed in producing a vehicle that is any more reliable than 20+ years ago *-)..................progress eh? :D

[Guest JudgeMental]

not really..stick with the 2.3 (or bigger) not the 2.2 seems to be the advice?

[onecal]

Hi,

I am afraid with advances in engine technology oils have to be of much better quality than years ago where the one grade fits all oil, is long gone out the window.This is were a lot of Turbos and engines of today fail because of inappropriate oil for the engine in question,as stipulated by the manufacture,This applies to all modern engines irrespective of make model or size of engine. 

Regards,

Brendan.  

[Guest Peter James]

man of norfolk - 2013-10-20 7:00 PM

use the bst oils and not the ones from supermarkets. !

 

Thats what garage owners said when the supermarkets started selling petrol at prices they couldn't compete with. Supermarket petrol will harm your engine. In fact it all comes out of the same tank at the refinery (lol)

 

The specification (eg API) is what matters, not where you buy it from, or the brand name.

But its a fair point that mineral oils tend not to keep up to their specification as long as the dearer synthetic oils, so should be changed more frequently.

[Guest Peter James]

JudgeMental - 2013-10-20 7:07 PM

 

not really..stick with the 2.3 (or bigger) not the 2.2 seems to be the advice?

 

on the basis of one thats blown up?

 

For all we know the cause could be the turbo, or bad oil, nothing to do with the type of engine.

I doubt if PSA could have sold it to so other manufacturers to put in so many other vehicles if it was as problematic as that.

 

[Guest Peter James]

man of norfolk - 2013-10-20 7:00 PM

 

As a retired auto and diesel engine designer, the problem with all aspects of motorhomes is that all 'vans/mall truck' chassis are really designed for partial loading and in most cases very light running. With motorhomes they either run at or even over the max GVW so are in fact highly stressed. That applies to any manufacturer including the german ones. They do test them at max GVW but of course not at very high mileages and all test programmes never really replicate the actual use.

 

We are talking about the engine, not the springs. If you are pulling more weight you change down so the stress on the engine is just the same. I find it hard to believe motorhome engines get a harder life than whitevanman (or Royal Mal redvanman) engines.

[colin]

Peter James - 2013-10-21 9:14 AM

 

man of norfolk - 2013-10-20 7:00 PM

use the bst oils and not the ones from supermarkets. !

 

Thats what garage owners said when the supermarkets started selling petrol at prices they couldn't compete with. Supermarket petrol will harm your engine. In fact it all comes out of the same tank at the refinery (lol)

 

The specification (eg API) is what matters, not where you buy it from, or the brand name.

But its a fair point that mineral oils tend not to keep up to their specification as long as the dearer synthetic oils, so should be changed more frequently.

 

Well that's proved the point then, supermarket fuel destroyed more engines than any other fuel

[Tracker]

In the old days when engines were over engineered and crude by today's standards I used to believe that any oil was good enough because oil is oil is oil.

 

These days however with the unbelievable complexity of modern engines and all the politically inspired pollution control gizmos instead of engineering solutions they have attached to them I believe that the right oil is crucial and expensive thought it might be the savings of buying cheap oil are no longer worth the risk.

 

Take no risks check the grade and get a good quality reputable brand of oil and if in doubt go to a vehicle dealer and buy their own label and very expensive oil that the extreme temperature of a turbocharger needs to stay intact.

 

Similarly fuel. I still think that supermarket diesel is OK but at worst it does no harm to maybe fill up with a premium brand every few tankfuls.

 

Most used vans sold are serviced by the selling dealer before collection and whilst the stamp in the book is valuable I do have to wonder whether they know or even care about the using right oils or whether it all just comes from a one size fits all 50 gallon bulk drum? I hope not?

 

The term liquid engineering sums it up wonderfully!

 

 

[mikemoss]

Peter James - 2013-10-21 9:14 AM

 

man of norfolk - 2013-10-20 7:00 PM

use the bst oils and not the ones from supermarkets. !

 

Thats what garage owners said when the supermarkets started selling petrol at prices they couldn't compete with. Supermarket petrol will harm your engine. In fact it all comes out of the same tank at the refinery (lol)

 

The specification (eg API) is what matters, not where you buy it from, or the brand name.

But its a fair point that mineral oils tend not to keep up to their specification as long as the dearer synthetic oils, so should be changed more frequently.

 

Not strictly true Peter. Yes, the raw fuel does come out of the same tank in the refinery and is blended to meet the appropriate standard, but the additives which differentiate one brand from another are added at the logistics terminal. So BP's fuel has BP's additives in, Esso has Esso's and so on. Supermarket fuel is the raw stuff bought in bulk on world markets and unlikely to have any specific additives. The oil companies employ teams of boffins and spend millions on developing new and better additives for their fuels (and lubricants). They also work closely with engine and gearbox manufacturers to match fuels and lubes with changing technology and legislation. So there!

[onecal]

Hi

In the majority of blown Turbos I have looked at it is almost always down to poor or wrong oil being used . You will of course come across the odd dud of a Turbo but it is rare. The correct oil spec must be used now for the engine specified,,,, example Merc  stipulate MB 229.1. 229.30 etc' and at present 229.51 for their engines, VW group 500.0. 501.0 and on to the present 507.0 .If the wrong brew is used the vehicle manufacturer can walk away from any warranty claim.So care is need to ensure it's the correct spec' for the vehicle not just a brand name of oil as many now produce these specs over a large range. 

Also some injectors fail and dilute and raise the oil level even when the correct brew is used with can also cause the above.

Regards,

Brendan. 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Peter James - 2013-10-21 9:20 AM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-10-20 7:07 PM

 

not really..stick with the 2.3 (or bigger) not the 2.2 seems to be the advice?

 

on the basis of one thats blown up?

 

For all we know the cause could be the turbo, or bad oil, nothing to do with the type of engine.

I doubt if PSA could have sold it to so other manufacturers to put in so many other vehicles if it was as problematic as that.

 

what has one blowing up to do with anything, and as you rightly said we dont know the cause or details yet

 

I think I will stick with Nicks advice thanks..seeing as he runs and maintains around 200 vans in his commercial venture...and most of us value his input and opinion on here. I was only repeating what he had advised hence the question mark *-)

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

The OP has not said how old his vehicle is, why if EU law gives guidelines as to how long something should reasonably last I wonder why or has anyone gone that route in trying to pursue a claim under merchantable quality, or not fit for purpose.

[rolandrat]

I wonder how many owners have truly experienced the failure of a turbo and the end result. I have and can tell you that when a turbo explodes its a frightening sudden very loud bang followed by a mass of blue smoke that causes a thick dense fog. Stopping the engine immediately prevents any further damage being done and the vehicle will have to be recovered to a garage for repair. In my case all that was needed was a new turbo fitting, no other damage was done to the engine. At the time it had covered over 600,000 miles, yes over 600,000 miles. The guy who was on about commercial vehicle engines having light use (in your dreams), my wagon ran fully freighted for all its life on bulk road tanker work, tramping throughout the UK and Ireland. As long as the crankshaft was ok the engine could be stripped and rebuilt. If the crankshaft had ever failed it would have been scrapped off. The business about owning a low mileage motorhome is totally unnecessary. as long as they are maintained on a regular basis they will go on for thousands of miles. The life of a coach built body is another matter.

[malc d]

1footinthegrave - 2013-10-21 12:20 PM

 

The OP has not said how old his vehicle is, ........................

 

.

 

 

I assume it's his 2007 Swift Suntor.

 

 

;-)

[Billggski]

It's a recognised feature in old land rovers, like mine.

To stop it destroying itself, block the air intake, a plastic bag or towel will do, or blow a co2 fire extinguisher into the air intake. Stalling it will also work if you apply the foot and handbrake and get it into a high gear.

There'several spectacular blow ups on YouTube.

By the way the Puma engine is also in land rovers, jaguars and loads of fords, peugeots and citroens, is usually extremely reliable, and made in Britain!

[Patricia]

As Rolandrat says the noise of a blown turbo is frightening and I have had the pipes blow off twice. Both times I had to call out the breakdown assistance as I could not do it myself. The second time I had to limp up to the Volcan service area and call them out from there.

Following this thread I have learned a bit about engine oils but not where to put it! Checked my little Fiat which I keep out in France and found the oil level pretty low and very dirty (a label said it had been changed Aug 2008 - oops!). Found some good quality oil in local supermarket but checked engine again and it looks nothing like the diagram in the handbook, couldn't see where you could pour it in, so booked in with the local garage. After 5 when I spoke to him, appointment 8am tomorrow!

Edit: Forgot to say that I got a telling off, albeit very gently!

[Uncle Bulgaria]

A great disappointment for Geoff.

 

One related item which I don't think I saw reading through the posts is the practice of idling the turbocharger before switching off. Turbo's run very hot, especially in a heavily laden vehicle pounding along a motorway or over an Alpine pass. Switching off the engine after such use, without allowing the turbo to cool down for couple of minutes, stops the flow of oil to the turbo's bearings and the heat soak can carbonise the oil in the bearings and cause a blockage of the oil feed. Repeated mistreatment can eventually cause the bearings and oil seals to fail and the turbo ingests the lubricating oil and eventually blows.

 

I've been advised that a turbo diesel should always be allowed to idle for 2 minutes or so prior to being switched off if the engine has been working hard. This practice can be frustrating if pulling into a filling station on a motorway, but if it prevents long-term turbo failure..........................Oil is also critical. It is the primary means of conveying heat away from the turbo's bearings and help prevent premature failure.

 

So, how many of us idle our turbo?

 

Richard Thomas.

 

 

[Tracker]

Uncle Bulgaria - 2013-10-21 5:41 PM

 

So, how many of us idle our turbo?

 

 

Not me - having been told by several car dealers that it's an urban myth?

 

I was told that these things need to be idiot proof because many drivers are careless idiots when it comes to taking care of their bosses van?

 

Nevertheless I can see the logic in it so I may well from now on - when I remember?

 

With a motorhome we often pull into a parking area or Aire and have a look around or a mooch around at low revs or sit at tickover whilst we (well one of us) makes up our mind exactly where she wants me to park!!

[Muswell]

I thought that it was the older turbos that need to be cooled down to avoid coking and that the modern designs, plus the improvements in oils ( see discussion above ) have made it unnecessary. The courier vans do intergalactic mileage at high speed and I don't notice their drivers sitting with the engine on tickover when they stop. I thought it was a bad idea anyway because of the poor airflow and it was better to just take it easy on the last bit of a journey

[lennyhb]

Tracker - 2013-10-21 6:05 PM

 

Uncle Bulgaria - 2013-10-21 5:41 PM

 

So, how many of us idle our turbo?

 

 

Not me - having been told by several car dealers that it's an urban myth?

 

I was told that these things need to be idiot proof because many drivers are careless idiots when it comes to taking care of their bosses van?

 

 

How come then my last diesel car had a big yellow sticker inside the door telling you to do it, a manufacturer wouldn't waste 10p on a sticker if it wasn't necessary.

[Tracker]

lennyhb - 2013-10-21 6:33 PM

 

Tracker - 2013-10-21 6:05 PM

 

Uncle Bulgaria - 2013-10-21 5:41 PM

 

So, how many of us idle our turbo?

 

 

Not me - having been told by several car dealers that it's an urban myth?

 

I was told that these things need to be idiot proof because many drivers are careless idiots when it comes to taking care of their bosses van?

 

 

How come then my last diesel car had a big yellow sticker inside the door telling you to do it, a manufacturer wouldn't waste 10p on a sticker if it wasn't necessary.

 

I too wish I knew the answer to that one!