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The right oil?


Tracker

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Any experts out there please?

 

The van is in for service so I don't have the handbook to hand.

 

The Peugeot specs found online for oil for my Boxer 2.2 HDI state three different types of Total Quartz with three slightly different specs.

 

Total Quartz 7000 semi synthetic 10w40 ACEA A3/A4

Total Quartz 9000 fully synthetic 5w40 ACEA A3/B4

Total Quartz Ineo ECS fully synthetic ACEA A5/B5 + C2

 

A simplified interpretation of ACEA is here - http://www.driverstechnology.co.uk/oils.htm

 

The dealer proposes using Castrol Magnatec Proffesional A5 5w40 fully synthetic which appears to meet or even exceed the demands of Peugeot as it is A1/B1 and A5/B5 - unless anyone knows different?

 

Complicated as a minefield isn't it!!

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Tracker,

My Fiat Handbook recommends 'Selenia' oil

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SELENIA-WR-5W-40-ENGINE-OIL-5-LITRE-FIAT-ALFA-ROMEO-/310673036793

 

Not cheap ! So after readings a lot about 'Saps' 'Acea C2' etc., I went for this Total Quartz oil which seems to fulfil all the requirements (and it's at a reasonable price).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002SR76R8/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B002SPH7BK&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=028XK37V0HJQ412Y014T

 

Just realised it's on your list, the last Total one.

If it's the same spec, then it's down to cost.

At least the Castrol should be easily available for top ups.

 

Ray

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Cheers Ray - I agree with you - always a good idea to keep the leftovers for top ups - not that I have had a van burn any oil between services in recent years!

Other faults by the score but no oil loss!!

It seems that carrying a spare litre of oil pays off in that it frightens the engine into not using any!!

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The make is not important. It's the spec' that counts and I'd also go for the last one on your list, Richard.

You don't have to pay the earth for this oil if you go to your local auto factors instead of halfrauds..

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PSA Peugeot-Citroën Oil SpecificationsMotor OilsThe French PSA group issued a set of oil specifications in 2009 in order to exercise greater control over the motor oils used in their vehicles. All specifications are based on ACEA specs but also require further conditions to be met.

 

PSA B71 2290

Peugeot/Citroën engine oil specification introduced in 2009. B71 2290 is a low-SAPS oil intended for engines with diesel particulate filters and with Euro 5 emission standards. General specifications are: ACEA C2 or C3 with additional PSA tests.

PSA B71 2294

Peugeot/Citroën engine oil specification introduced in 2009. Main specification: ACEA A3/B4 with additional PSA tests.

PSA B71 2295

Peugeot/Citroën engine oil standard for engine before MY 1998. General specification: ACEA A2/B2.

PSA B71 2296

Peugeot/Citroën engine oil specification introduced in 2009. General specifications: ACEA A3/B4 + additional PSA tests.

 

So for your vehicle you need to find the correct PSA specification and then find an oil which is approved or tested to the specifiation. It is not good enough these days to just use the ACEA specification as more and more manmufacturers are demanding much higher specific characteristics for their oil.

 

Without looking at the exact peugoet dat you hve looked at, the oil specified by Castrol is 5w30 C2

and PSA specification B71 2290 and if you look at the castrol data sheet

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/1B15B8B287E516B980257B49003892C0/$File/BPXE-8HQJMW_0.pdf

it is appoved to PSA B71 2290.

 

Looking for the data sheet for 5w40 A5 there is no such oil listed. Looking at 5w30 A5 it is not approved to PSA and appears to be a ford approved oil so not the most suitable.

Looking at 5w40 A3 its is not PSA approved either for your engine.

 

Bit of a mine field isn't it. It may be that Castrol/ BP oils do not make 5w40 A3 PSA approved oil and their offering is the (edit - to correct) 5w30 C2 which is a low SAPS oil suitable for Particulate filters.

So next question is do you have a particulate filter which I expect is yes unless you have removed it. Then you have more choice. But at the end of the day you starting point should be the PSA or indeed you could use the Fiat specifications.

Its such a minefield is it any wonder garages select an oil suitable across the range of most vehicles, you might be lucky and it is approved for your engine but in many cases it just a compromise.

 

Now looking at the Total oil data you need the Ineo 5W30 A5 + C2. if you have a particulate filter. basically if you have a particlate filter you need the C2 oil as any other oils can interfere with the post processing of cleaning the filter.

 

Do I have to read over eveything I have written or can you decipher yourself - over to you Tracker and hope it all makes sense. You need the correct PSA spec. approved oil.

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Exactly. Go with the Peugeot recommended oil which for our climate and our market is:

Euro4 engines: Total Quartz 9000 5w/40

Euro5 engines: Total Quartz INEO ECS 5w/30

 

The INEO 5w/30 is also specified for Euro4 but only when a DPF is fitted which it never was for the UK market. There is no point in using a 'low SAPS' oil if you don't have a DPF, thinking that just because it is a later/higher specification and costs more then it must be better. It costs more because it has had to be re-engineered to be 'low SAPS' and to cope with other DPF-related issues such as partial dilution with diesel due to failed DPF regenerations yet still provide adequate lubrication. If you don't need these features because you don't have a DPF then you should use the Euro4 spec. oil as arguably this could even provide better protection than the later spec.

 

From the '120' bit in your engine description I'd guess that you have a Euro4 so just tell the garage to use Total Quartz 9000 5w/40 and if they don't have it then why not buy some and give it to them.

 

 

 

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Guest 1footinthegrave
Southender - 2013-10-23 8:20 AM

 

You`ll never know what the dealer puts in it unless you see them actually do it.

 

Whatever they got the best deal on i suspect.

 

I'm glad you said that and not me, one of the reasons I always do my own oil changes, simples.

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1footinthegrave - 2013-10-23 8:57 AM

 

Southender - 2013-10-23 8:20 AM

 

You`ll never know what the dealer puts in it unless you see them actually do it.

 

Whatever they got the best deal on i suspect.

 

I'm glad you said that and not me, one of the reasons I always do my own oil changes, simples.

 

 

 

I just say it like it is, although i`m surprised the abuse hasn`t started yet from the usual suspects.

They must be abroad and without a signal ....................... lol

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colin - 2013-10-23 8:52 AM

 

It's great the manufacturer bulls**t isn't it.

Richard, go online to Castrol website enter your reg number and the correct Castrol oil will be shown

 

Well I never knew that Colin!!

 

Many thanks for the tip.

 

This is the wonder of a good forum like what this one is - amongst all the wealth of experience and knowledge something new so often turns up!!

 

Cheers to one and for your good natured contributions.

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Southender - 2013-10-23 8:20 AM

 

You`ll never know what the dealer puts in it unless you see them actually do it.

 

Whatever they got the best deal on i suspect.

 

I am inclined to agree - which is why it never hurts to ask them what oil they will use and specify it on the invoice - or even supply your own specialist oil if getting under the van is difficult or just not one's idea of fun!

 

At least with main dealer servicing you 'should' be getting the correct oil and if the engine does blow up due to the wrong oil you should have some come back on the dealer.

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Guest 1footinthegrave

Does this mean I'll have to stop using Castrol GTX. ;-)

 

Isn't it the fact that we should all have confidence in garages doing exactly as they should, in using the correct fluids, as for comebacks if they didn't I think you'd need an industrial chemist on your side. I did think the "trusted garage" scheme was a step in the right direction, but mine after being asked to check my disc pads before we went of on our last trip, and saying they were OK, found me with worn out pads just two weeks later and a 241 Euro bill in France, will I trust them again,mmmmmmm and you wonder why I'm grumpy :D

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Brambles - 2013-10-23 10:42 AM

 

Tracker, do you have a DPF fitted?

 

NO DPF- It's Euro 4

 

I wouldn't touch a Euro 5 engine until they get the DPF issues properly sorted - but I suspect Euro 6 will be upon us before then anyway and heaven knows what delights that will bring!!

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Disagree, that is the oil company recommending it, you must make sure it meets the requirements of the appropriate PSA specification.

 

Total quartz 9000 for example is recommended for -30 to +50 degrees but does not say it meets any PSA specifucations. The 5W30 Ineo does and is -30 to +45 degrees.

 

What I cannot find is the appropriate PSA spec for using a 5W40 oil..but it shoudl be in the handbook.

but may not be for a 2010 vehicle if it was built 2009 and oil specs were created in 2009. Even so the specs in the hand book are the starting point.

 

I suspect it is PSA B712296 for a 5W40 oil used at ambients higher than 45 degrees but are you really going to be driving in ambients greater than 45 degrees. The oil specified by every one else apart from Total appears to be 5W40 C2 for 2.2hdi engines after 2006.

Oh hum it is a mine filed and popping into Tesco and buying the cheapest that says A3/B4 is NOT the way to go for a 50 grand vehicle.

 

 

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I am not at all sure that C2 is right as the van is not Euro 5 and does not have a DPF?

 

A3/B4 or A5/B5 seem to be those suggested by Peugeot for Euro 4 HDI 2.2 but until I see the handbook I won't know for sure?

 

It might be that C2 spec exceeds A3/B4 and A5/B5 - I dunno - but meanwhile my gut feeling is not to ask for C2 as the Castrol Magnatec Professional 5W40 A1/B1 A5/B5 seems to be within PSA guidlines ?

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Hi,
5W 30 C2 is  indeed not needed as stated above for non DPF. It is however recommended  for engines with DPF.Fully synthetic 5W 40 provided it has the following specification, Acea a3 /b4.
Api : SJ/CF   SC/CF for your engine if 2.2 HDI (120) non DPI is recommended.
Regards,
Brendan
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The C2 Exceeds 5W30 non C2 oils.

 

The recomended oil for all 2.2 Hdi is 5W30 C2 since 2006. This is also inline with Fiats Specs.The only place I have found an option to use 5W40 id on teh Total site and the oil does not have a PSA approval. It does not mean you cannot use it but why when the 5W30 C2 is recommended. What does your hand book say?

 

The C2 spec does have other advantages, it will withstand more fuel in the oil which is no bad thing and is a Diesel dedicated oil rather than one suitable for both Diesel and Petrol.

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