pay loads (again!!)

[Sam]

Hi everybody, We are (were!) really looking forward to owning a motorhome but the more we have looked into it and read all the magazines going, the more we are getting confused. We've established the most important thing for us to get right is the payload, as we are campers at the moment in a Picasso car the payload is 500kg. As there are 4 of us (2 under 10) we only have 15kg to spare after being on the weighbridge. Now I understand we wont have the tent & cooker with us but this will only account for 50kg but we will have bigger gas bottles, fresh water tanks, bikes, fishing equipment, tv etc. How do I find a second hand MH with a good payload. We have found a Hymer 594 camp swing that fits our requirements re 6 berth, seatbelts, bunk beds etc but the payload is only 520kg which surprised the seller! He said no one had asked him that question before. As I can only find payloads for new MH in your magazine can anyone suggest a second hand make and model of MH with 6 berth (either bunk beds or U shaped lounge with separate diner and overcab bed), 2.3 or 2.8 diesel (theres the other confusion Fiat or Merc or Ford?) and with a good payload of at least 700kg. Our budget is £20000 but at a push £25000. Thanks Sam

[Basil]

Hi Sam, The Elddis Autostratus CK we have is 6 berth and has a 614kg payload, the ES has a higher payload but is 4 berth, the EB has a higher payload and is 6 berth. Unfortunately I do not have the figures for the other to hand as my handbook is in the van but I do know that they are both higher than ours. Hope that will help a bit! Baz

[Go Motorhoming]

[QUOTE]Sam - 2006-08-20 7:31 PM We've established the most important thing for us to get right is the payload, as we are campers at the moment in a Picasso car the payload is 500kg. As there are 4 of us (2 under 10) we only have 15kg to spare after being on the weighbridge. We have found a Hymer 594 camp swing that fits our requirements re 6 berth, seatbelts, bunk beds etc but the payload is only 520kg which surprised the seller! He said no one had asked him that question before. ...a good payload of at least 700kg. Our budget is £20000 but at a push £25000. Thanks Sam[/QUOTE] Hi Sam you are exactly right the most important thing for you is payload. You are lucky that you have limited budget as older MH's often have better payloads as people wanted less. Where you are really going to struggle is the payload calculation, put simply different manufacturers include or exclude "essential habitation equipment" into the equations. Currently Hymer include everything you would expect into the vehicle before weighing, full water, fuel and gas tanks the driver and a hook up cable. I suspect they have always done this but I don't know for sure. This is not the case for most other manufacturers some do not include anything not even the driver. So with the Hymer you may gain another 115kg or so by not traveling with a full water tank and only 1 gas bottle (you must check this to be certain). Our 1991 Hymer Camp 55 has 700kg recorded payload and 5 births but no rear seat-belts but you stand a good chance with the Hymer range so I wish you luck in your search. I would be really grateful if you could let me know which models you come up with as would be useful to know. Go Motorhoming Read the rights and write the wrongs

[Basil]

Reference the above for clarification. The Elddis payloads referred to in my post above is after driver, 90% fuel load, 75% fresh water, two 7kg gas bottles and 85Ahr battery are installed according to the handbook.

[Sam]

Thank you for your help and suggestions. I rang Hymer UK at preston and they told me the pay load fig of 520kg would have to inc everything - driver, fuel etc. So I've had a look into the Elddis Autostratus EB, Ive contacted the Explorer Group who told me the pay load is 674kg which is better than the Hymer but again you have to inc driver, fuel, water etc in that fig. So I will keep the Elddis in mind as they do tick most of the boxes, just one thing what are they like for maintaining heat in winter as we would like to use our MH all year and really enjoy Scotland. If there is anybody else with any suggestions they would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Sam

[Basil]

Hi Sam, Is the EB that the Explorer Group are referring to a new model or of around 1998 to 2001 year, as my handbook for those years states that the ex works weight includes as I said earlier the fuel, water, gas and a battery plus driver only.

[Sam]

Hi, the year I told them was 1999.

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]Sam - 2006-08-21 4:58 PM Thank you for your help and suggestions. I rang Hymer UK at preston and they told me the pay load fig of 520kg would have to inc everything - driver, fuel etc. So I've had a look into the Elddis Autostratus EB, Ive contacted the Explorer Group who told me the pay load is 674kg which is better than the Hymer but again you have to inc driver, fuel, water etc in that fig. So I will keep the Elddis in mind as they do tick most of the boxes, just one thing what are they like for maintaining heat in winter as we would like to use our MH all year and really enjoy Scotland. If there is anybody else with any suggestions they would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Sam[/QUOTE]

If you're buying a used van do check what the actual weights are, since a previous owner may have added extras to the vehicle that will reduce the available payload below the catalogue figures. 

Also be aware that there is an upwards tolerance of, I think 5%, allowable on the manufacturer's catalogue figure.  This is intended to allow for unavoidable variations in the weight of natural materials used in construction, such as, for example, the mositure content or actual density of timber.  Unlike the unladen weight, the MTPLM is not variable!  So, if the actual unladen weight is above the catalogue figure it, too, consumes some of your payload.  Just 5% of the unladen weight doesn't sound much - until you work it out and deduct it fom the available payload!

The only really safe remedy is a trip to a weighbridge, with the actual van, before you buy.  Ideally, you'll need to fill it with fuel (because that's the only way you can be sure of the fuel tank contents and thus weight) but otherwise make sure all the on board tanks are empty and that you know if there is a battery fitted (probable)and whether gas bottles are present (improbable).  If your dealer will allow this (good test of their customer relations!), get the weighbridge oparator to weigh just the front axle first, then the whole van.  He should be able to set up the print out as for a delivery, so that the printed ticket will show three weights.  Weight "A" will be the front axle, weight "B" will be the whole van, and the weighbridge machine will then calculate weight "C", which is "B" - "A", or by inference, the rear axle weight.

As you're going for a large van, unless you go for one that is plated at 3,850 Kg or so, you'll need to know the unladen axle weights, to be able to see how far below the permitted max each axle actually is.  I think you'll find that quite a few vans appear to have sufficient payload, but will actually run out of rear (normally) axle payload before you reach the whole vehicle limit.

Finally, if you go to www.go-motorhoming.co.uk you will find details of a very useful and informative book, called Go Motorhoming Europe, that you can buy via the site.  I'd say get yourselves a copy of that before you go too much further.  It deals with all of the issues raised on this string, and many more besides.  It could well save you quite a lot of time/money.  I've no connection with the authors/publishers, except I've got a copy and read it!

[Sam]

Thank you once again to Brian & Baz, your information has been very useful, and yes I agree the only way I'm going to know for sure is a trip to the weighbridge. Sam