johnlc Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I'm new here and to motorhoming, and looking to make my first purchase. I want a rear lounge vehicle which is 6 metres long maximum, and 2.1m wide maximum. It must have toilet and shower, and reasonable cooking facilities. I only need two berths/passenger seats. I don't want a fixed rear bed. I initially thought I would spend £10-12,000 and try something out for a year. But the rear lounge layout is the difficulty. There are loads of Duettos etc. around but I've only recently come across an IH Savannah Gold which meets my criteria. Are there other things of that age which might meet my intial price range? I'm struggling to find anything and don't really know what I might be looking for! If I up the budget to £25,000 I could possibly (?) find a bigger selection e.g. Vantage Med Globecar Trendscout Devon Aztec I quite like the idea of a 5.4mtre van, as low profile coachbuilts of the size I am looking for seem a much more recent phenomenon, and outside the top of my price range. All suggestions on models to look for, and which are recommended, would be really appreciated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolly1965 Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Herald Valencia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazooka Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Hi,my van conversion is a Dreamfinder Galaxy Fiat Ducato 2.8 td, 2 berth 2 seats,rear lounge,5.5 metres x2 metres 2004 reg. Baz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Rapido 710f. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Whyn-Brayk Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Visit www.MOBILE.DE Choose the English version of the site When the "Search/ Offer" tabs appear select the Motorcaravan icon on the right. In "Category" select "partly integrated" Leave all other options as "any" Except Length... you have 2 choices... up to 5m and 5.01-6m You may find other search parameters e.g. age will help. Just in case some of the old lags on here think I'm suggesting you buy from a private seller in Germany, I'm not. (Although the process is not complicated, - I've done it myself, but I'd suggest you get some experience of owning a camper before you follow that route). The 172 vehicles for sale that I found tonight will give you a good idea of what's available. Most come with a set of pictures that will help you identify layouts that suit your needs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 My choice for a rear lounge van would be an Autocruise Stardream of about 2006/7 vintage, Before Swift took over, and screwed them up : http://www.nickwhalesportscarsdirect.co.uk/autocruise-stardream-372 Slightly more than you have targeted, but probably able to knock them down a bit. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overdrive Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Agree Peter - Rapido 710f. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Rayjsj - 2013-11-05 8:47 PM My choice for a rear lounge van would be an Autocruise Stardream of about 2006/7 vintage, Before Swift took over, and screwed them up : http://www.nickwhalesportscarsdirect.co.uk/autocruise-stardream-372 Slightly more than you have targeted, but probably able to knock them down a bit. Ray Also the Pioneer Magellan, badged Autocruise pre-2007 out of the same factory, same layout just different fabric, etc. But some of the earlier models around 2000 ? Had an "L" shaped rear lounge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Rayjsj - 2013-11-05 8:47 PM My choice for a rear lounge van would be an Autocruise Stardream of about 2006/7 vintage, Before Swift took over, and screwed them up : http://www.nickwhalesportscarsdirect.co.uk/autocruise-stardream-372 Slightly more than you have targeted, but probably able to knock them down a bit. Ray Sounds expensive to me, for a van of that age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 A bombproof rear lounge that oozes plenty of space is a Lunar 620/630, they have a one piece roof without joints but like hens teeth to get hold of. Some were built on Alko and later models on the Fiat chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikerBarry Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Just a reminder to anyone considering buying any 2007 to late 2009 6 speed 2.2 litre Peugeot or 2.3 litre Fiat to check that the gearbox modifications have been carried out to the base vehicle. Those buying their first motorhome now may not be aware of the issues on these early models and that although thousands were modified there wasn't a general recall, so there will still be a few out there with potentially expensive problems arising from reversing them up steep gradients. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 With any elderly coach built it's wise to get an independent damp check done, some of the so called bargains could be a sponges on wheels waiting for unsuspecting buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlc Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Thanks to everyone for your responses. The Rapido looks a possibility and I found a good review from MMM magazine. I think my wife would prefer a shorter vehicle and quite liked the IH Savannah Gold we have seen before, which is only 5 mtres long. If anyone knows of any other van conversions that are older and meet the rear lounge requirement it would be great to hear from you. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Is there a specific reason you want to keep under 6.0M long and 2.1M wide? I only ask because while I agree with your constraints in principle, they are quite restrictive. There is a wide range of vans around 6.0M long, but most will be around 2.3M wide. The alternatives will be the "Van" variants, almost all of which have raised transverse beds at the back and a dinette/lounge at the front. Hobby, Hymer, Knaus, and Dethleffs are the main contenders, but tend to be a bit over your 2.1M wide. In terms of restricting where you can go, however, I think width become more restrictive than length, so would be inclined to relax the 6.0M before I relaxed the width, except that I would be prepared to go to 2.15M for the right van. The Ducato/Boxer/Jumper based PVCs are the most popular, because they are the widest on the market, and so allow a transverse bed to be installed to maximise internal space and flexibility. Rear lounges are a bit profligate with space as there are already seats at the front, so one gets two seating areas and a kit-of-bits bed, and little practical advantage. There is also the question of storing bedding while the lounge is in use which, as commented in another string, tends to hog the storage space, leaving much less available for other items. These are quite "tight" spaces for two adults to occupy, so elimination of functional overlaps is desirable to get best use. The drawback of PVCs that many comment upon is the the sliding door, which some find awkward to open/close, especially from inside, and everyone finds noisy - especially your neighbours! :-) The further drawback of PVCs, as I'm sure you must have noticed, is cost. However, looking around at your price point the offerings will all be several years old, and although for the same price a good PVC will be older than a coachbuilt, I wouldn't let that put me off. Coachbuilts become more prone to leakage as they age, which is difficult to spot before the event (but should be anticiated in all but a very few makes), whereas the steel bodyshell of a PVC will merely rust, which should be far easier to spot. If you are able to reconsider that rear lounge requirement, your choice will expand greatly. Not sure what you'd count a decent kitchen. Most PVCs have two burner hobs, a few three; fairly small fridges, and fair storage. Few, almost all UK produced, have ovens, simply because of the space they take up in a small place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamw Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 If you are looking for a rear lounge van conversion with reasonable cooking facilities then a UK conversion is probably the way to go. The advantage of the rear lounge is that it gives an exceptionally comfortable area in which to spend time should the weather necessitate. Most conversions from across the water, as has already been pointed out, will have a traverse bed at the rear and a front lounge/dinette that many will find not easy to relax in for a lengthy period of time. They work well when the weather is fine and you are not confined to indoors. Often the two front swiveling seats can be a bonus particular if they are complimented by a nearby shelf or small single leg table as it provides extra preparation space adjacent to the kitchen or indeed a place where you can sit and have breakfast or lunch and watch the world outside through the open sliding door. On some of the 6.3m vehicles it's possible to use this area very effectively and leave the lounge as a bed if the weather doesn't require its daytime use. Unfortunately building on the 6.3m van base has been very limited until recently and there is barely any choice yet in the used vehicle market within your budget. Storage is always an issue with a van conversion and while the traverse rear bed setup usually wins hands down for storage underneath with careful design the rear lounge layout will have one of the bench seats available for storage of bedding without problem. The other bench seat will usually house both heating and hot water units and offer limited storage. If the lounge is 'U' shaped with wrap around seating then that usually improves the storage situation giving access to a traverse storage area via the rear doors. If you were to extend your budget as you suggest you might add to your list a Swift Mondial rear lounge model. A 2008 model may just come within your price bracket. You might find around that price a IH Tio from a year earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4cls Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 DONT buy Swift older models. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamw Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 4cls - 2013-11-06 9:11 PM DONT buy Swift older models. :'( Can you enlighten us please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 grahamw - 2013-11-06 9:39 PM 4cls - 2013-11-06 9:11 PM DONT buy Swift older models. :'( Can you enlighten us please Owners I know have suffered with very bad damp problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 You don't mention if fuel consumption is on your radar, if it is that could make a lot of difference, as you can see we have a IH, it has everything a coach built has, and more in some cases, but really scores over most coach builts with fuel economy. But CB or PVC at the age your looking at, do check underneath for rust, the radiator support cross member being a known problem and on coach builts even the Rapido mentioned the plywood floor at the rear, which can be sodden, and a pain to sort out as well as the roof front seam ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlc Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 Brian and grahamw thank you for your thoughtful and helpful comments. The 6m length restriction is for 3 reasons. 1. Should we decide to go abroad it would keep the cost down a bit on the ferry. 2. Ease of parking, with shorter than 6m preferred if possible. 3. Ease of driving. Having driven a 7m long coachbuit recently it just felt way too big for us. There are only two of us and we are prepared to compromise somewhat on comfort and storage for a smaller vehicle. I appreciate that the age/price of vehicle I am looking at is nearly always 2.3 m wide in a coachbuilt (Rapido 710f excepted). Some of the newer 6m coachbuilts we saw at the NEC recently like the Burstner Bravio and Eldis Accordo, are only 2.1m wide but they are too expensive. 2.3m is a foot wider than 2m. ( I still think in feet and inches!). In country lanes that is a big difference and could be restrictive. Hence the 2.1m maximum. Regarding the transverse bed arrangement we have thought long and hard about that, but ultimately feel the half-dinette at the front isn't comfortable enough for relaxing in for prolonged periods of time. This seems highly likely given the British weather. I'm going to have a look at a Swift Mondial with rear lounge this weekend but can't afford it! I have come across a Devon Pasadena that fits my criteria/budget but is a long way away to view. Any mention of other older models that meet my criteria gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlc Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 1footinthegrave - thanks for your advice. What do you get in fuel consumption from your IH? The Savannah Gold we have been looking at has a 2.8 non turbo diesel engine. I must admit I've been concentrating on the habitation side, not the base vehicle. These older vans I'm considering will need a good inspection for the sorts of things you, and others have mentioned. I'm no mechanic and will probably rely on an AA inspection or something like that, especially if I go for a private purchase. I'm a bit wary of the private purchase route given no comeback to the seller. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 johnlc - 2013-11-07 11:20 AM 1footinthegrave - thanks for your advice. What do you get in fuel consumption from your IH? The Savannah Gold we have been looking at has a 2.8 non turbo diesel engine. I must admit I've been concentrating on the habitation side, not the base vehicle. These older vans I'm considering will need a good inspection for the sorts of things you, and others have mentioned. I'm no mechanic and will probably rely on an AA inspection or something like that, especially if I go for a private purchase. I'm a bit wary of the private purchase route given no comeback to the seller. Thanks I can't comment on that particular engine, and there may be a potential issue with the fifth gear on the one your looking at as there was on the older Ducato, mine is the 2.8 jtd 2003, from which we get anything between 30 to 33 mpg, depending on how heavy I am with the right foot en route to Dover, then when touring France, probably due no doubt to less stop start traffic driving having as much as 36mpg. ( we don't do UK ) MIne was bought privately, but backed up with an excellent service history, and all the bills for work done. Having once bought a van from a dealer with a warranty that turned in to a nightmare I wouldn't be rushing to buy one from a dealer again, and buying private is going to get you more for your money, as an example you'd probably pick my van up for around 15k private, but it would be 20k from a dealer. ;-) Ensure cambelt has been done, and check radiator cross member support though, the only other thing I've had to have done was front wheel bearings, again a bit of a known issue. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 rolandrat - 2013-11-07 9:29 AM grahamw - 2013-11-06 9:39 PM 4cls - 2013-11-06 9:11 PM DONT buy Swift older models. :'( Can you enlighten us please Owners I know have suffered with very bad damp problems. It should be clarified that while this comment may be relevant to coachbuilt vans it is not, AFAIK, relevant to PVCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 We've got an Autocruise Starspirit. 2 berth. Rear lounge converts to 2 day beds or 1 large. On a Peugeot with the 2.8engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 If you want to look at a Low Profile Coachbuilt the older x244 chassis model Dethleffs Globebus T3 would suit 5.99m long 2.15m wide & rear lounge A "sold" example can be seen here:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DETHLEFFS-GLOBEBUS-T3-REAR-LOUNGE-MOTORHOME-FOR-SALE-/121086946770 Scroll down for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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