Brian Kirby Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Wasn't complaining, Chris, just seeking to re-state, for the benefit of the one or three who haven't read the original post and think I am anti-automatic, or simply "don't like" the gearbox, or can't or won't adapt to its vagaries, that I was trying to give a specific appraisal of its performance based on my experience. Your post just gave me a peg to hang a hat on! :-) Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Brian, I cannot comment on your vehicle or its drive mechanism but I read you as an over engineered human being, I too had a similar problem in trying to be a portrait sketch artist, I eventually gave up trying as I was too stiff and regimented into straight lines and radii from engineering work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Thank you Will. I think we all now know you think I should be more like you. :-) However, I'm far happier being me. I pick and question, which is how humaniaty has progressed. IMO, just accepting what you are given takes us nowhere. For things to improve, someone has to question the status quo. So, despite your exhortations to lie back and await the next load of manure, I respectfully decline! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Looking forward to hearing Fiats response to the concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 rolandrat - 2013-11-25 10:33 AM Looking forward to hearing Fiats response to the concerns. Based on Fiat's initial response to the 'juddering' issue of 5 years ago, I'd bet that the response is likely to be "It's a characteristic of this engine/gearbox combination". That might indeed be the case (and there may be no 'fix'), but that doesn't mean a driver has to like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Great stuff Brian, its important that we are all different. Be assured when the need arises I do complain very strongly especially to large companies who fail in some way. But the interiors of gearboxes are not something I can comment on having spent the largest part of my life on a bicycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Will85 - 2013-11-25 6:35 PM Great stuff Brian, its important that we are all different. Be assured when the need arises I do complain very strongly especially to large companies who fail in some way. But the interiors of gearboxes are not something I can comment on having spent the largest part of my life on a bicycle. Stay from London, then! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-11-21 5:39 PM....................However, I now have a case number from Fiat, and at their suggestion will be booking the van into a Fiat dealership for assessment. I will update once I have their verdict. I'm resurrecting this thread for an update post inspection by a Fiat Professional dealership, as arranged via Fiat Technical. The dealer is about 30 miles from where we live, and the van drove well en-route. I drove the first half in manual mode, which worked fine, and the second half in auto mode, which also worked fine. A and B roads, no dual carriageways, across the Sussex Weald, so hilly, but no "proper" hills. Van was unladen. On arrival, the van was plugged into the diagnostics, with which it would not at first "handshake" After a few tries communication was established, and no fault codes were present for engine or gearbox. We spend over an hour driving up and down local hilly(ish!) roads, trying to provoke the failure to change down, and around roundabouts trying to provoke the very slow change up from first. The box performed very well throughout. Very embarrasing! :$ So, when we got back, apart from apologising to the mech for wasting his time, and saying that if it had driven that well while we were away I should not have raised the issue with Fiat, I asked him if he had any ideas to explain the change. Most obvious was the reduced weight, possibly that using manual had "taught" the software something, possibly that using the diagnostics had cleared some un-registered fault (not thought likely), or most probably that the engine had loosened a bit more after 3K miles, and was now developing nearer to the torque and HP the electronics anticipate. I was told that the engine is considered more or less "run in" at 6K miles (though we agreed that will continue for another 15 - 20K miles). I was also told there is no specific "running in" program, which slightly surprised me, so maybe the electronics try to drive the engine and box as though fully run-in right from the start. Whatever, I drove home in full auto mode and it performed pretty much flawlessly, and now seems to be coming "on-song" a bit. So, maybe it was just very tight, and consequently a bit down on power. I shan't know the full story on this until we next go away fully laden, but the long lag in changing up from first was apparent right from the time I first drove it, when it was also unladen, so clearly something has changed in the interim. Following this week's experience - but pending further fully laden experience (and a few "proper" hills :-)) - I am now sufficiently reassured by the box in auto mode to put most of my reservations on hold. Then, if it does as well fully laden (including on "proper" hills), as it now does unladen, I shall be very pleased indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Sounds good...my engine did not loosen up till around 8K, was then far nicer to drive. before that was not happy with the manual gear box at all as it seemed like I was always shifting......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Thanks for the update, Brian. I'm pleased things are working better. I suppose the real test will be how it performs when you go back to the Continent. I have the 130 version and in the UK, it's always been OK for me. However, yesterday I had my Transit driving son as a passenger in the motorhome, only his third trip, and he commented on how much better the gear changes seemed to be in auto. He asked whether I understood the Comfort-Matic better or whether it was adjusting to me. I think it's because the mileage is clocking up and is over similar terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Brian , My only comment is that your driving ability has now adjusted to what is around you, all your preconceived thoughts on how it SHOULD drive have presumably been cast aside. Earlier I made a suggestion to 'just drive the thing' and it seems you are doing just that. Good. Some of us go through life 'by the book' while others (me) just get on with life and adjust accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Will85 - 2013-12-12 5:11 PM Brian , My only comment is that your driving ability has now adjusted to what is around you, all your preconceived thoughts on how it SHOULD drive have presumably been cast aside. Earlier I made a suggestion to 'just drive the thing' and it seems you are doing just that. Good. Some of us go through life 'by the book' while others (me) just get on with life and adjust accordingly. Yeah..that'd be it Will :-S ..It'd be nowt to do with the fact it was tested unladen...or had possibly loosened a bit more..or that it wasn't being tested on some steep alpine hair pin bends.. No..It was the fact Brian had taken your advice... (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Have heard on very good authority thar Kirby's has really got into legal highs.......maybe that's it? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I've never felt an engine to be 'easy' until at least 20,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Will85 - 2013-12-12 8:07 PM I've never felt an engine to be 'easy' until at least 20,000 miles couldn't agree more, a relative has a Skoda 1.9tdi, bought brand new 03 reg with just under 300,000 miles on the clock and it's running like a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Brian we are not due to replace our motorhome for another three years but when we do we're thinking in terms of the 3l lump with the Comfortmatic box. Given that our drive has a very tight turn with a solid wall on the outside and just to make things interesting it starts off up hill then flattens out. I have mastered the art of getting the present motorhome up it but one needs to take it very steady and have perfect control of the speed at all times. In your experience how well do you think the Comfortamatic would cope. I'd hate to buy one then find it difficult to get up the drive. One only wants to hit a solid brick wall once both for the sake of the wall and the motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughman Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 We've got the 150 bhp Fiat Comfortmatic on our Possl, and low speed manouevring is no problem - just bung it into manual mode if you really want to be sure what's happening. I've driven it around a very tight car park with (genuinely) inches only of clearance on each side with no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Getting behind the wheel of a Comfort-matic for the first time can be a bit challenging and getting to know what can and cannot be done can take a while to sink in. I have experience of driving 44 ton ADR roadtankers with fully automatic gearboxes on every type of road, up and down very steep gradients and on snow and ice with every confidence and in full control. Driving manual crash boxes and twin splitters are long gone but you never forget. To me the Comfort-matic is a step in the right direction and once mastered is a very relaxing drive. Mine is the 3ltr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Colin Leake - 2013-12-13 8:15 PM Brian we are not due to replace our motorhome for another three years but when we do we're thinking in terms of the 3l lump with the Comfortmatic box. Given that our drive has a very tight turn with a solid wall on the outside and just to make things interesting it starts off up hill then flattens out. I have mastered the art of getting the present motorhome up it but one needs to take it very steady and have perfect control of the speed at all times. In your experience how well do you think the Comfortamatic would cope. I'd hate to buy one then find it difficult to get up the drive. One only wants to hit a solid brick wall once both for the sake of the wall and the motorhome. Low speed manoeuvering with the Comfortmatic in auto mode on a 3 litre is a doddle. The van behaves beautifully - no judder in forward or reverse gear and you will have perfect control at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 The potential difficulty Colin, is that the clutch does not fully engage until roadspeed has reached something like 5MPH, maybe a bit more. For obvious reasons the clutch does not engage at tickover speed - as one can do with a manual transmission, especially if the vehicle has an anti-stall programme. One needs slightly higher revs to initiate clutch engagement, than I would normally use with a manual where I want to inch forward under fine control. So, for fine control uphill below walking speed, one has to increase revs to fool the clutch into beginning to engage, but then back off before it can fully engage, and keep gently blipping the throttle to keep the clutch just slipping slightly. I also have a rising drive, not steep, but sufficiently so for a vehicle roll back immediately forward momentum is lost, and I need to stop with the front of the van about 12" from the garage door. I can do this, but could to do it using lower revs, with a bit more control, with the Transit's manual transmission. So, if you can comfortably get a manual up your drive under control, you should be able to do so with the comfortmatic - but you'll probably make more noise doing so, at least until you get the feel for how it responds! Sounds to me as though what you really need is an auto Sprinter with torque converter! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jocie Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 I have a Devon Aztec (2009) with 3 litre comfortmatic.. If you want to do slow forward or reverse manoeuvring which is too slow for the comfortmatic to do without possible clutch slipping, I suggest simply do it in manual mode.... *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 Can you explain a bit more, please, Steve? It seems to me that the clutch engages in the same way in manual as it does in auto. Where/how do you find the difference arises? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Sorry Gents but I still think some posters are still overplaying the technical aspect, all the modern autos I've driven need some manipulation to achieve a result, adapting to whatever is required has always been my answer. (I use the left foot on occasions) Our new VW is said to have some 'holding mechanism' at lights but so far I've not found it, so what I adjust and all's well. There is also (it says) means of achieving 'air conditioning' not found that yet either but I will. I recall a similar difference of opinion over the juddering Fiat, some found it some didn't. I have extremely acute hearing at low frequencies which enabled me have a particularly skilled industrial judgement so perhaps I'm different. Come on Nick ...Euroserve come and chuck your two pennyworth into the pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 A lot of over thinking going on here. You will get used to reversing it within minutes. My drive is very steep to the point where I have had to have the front and rear suspension raised to avoid grounding. I can assure you it's not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-12-14 12:02 AM The potential difficulty Colin, is that the clutch does not fully engage until roadspeed has reached something like 5MPH, maybe a bit more. For obvious reasons the clutch does not engage at tickover speed - as one can do with a manual transmission, especially if the vehicle has an anti-stall programme. One needs slightly higher revs to initiate clutch engagement, than I would normally use with a manual where I want to inch forward under fine control. So, for fine control uphill below walking speed, one has to increase revs to fool the clutch into beginning to engage, but then back off before it can fully engage, and keep gently blipping the throttle to keep the clutch just slipping slightly. I also have a rising drive, not steep, but sufficiently so for a vehicle roll back immediately forward momentum is lost, and I need to stop with the front of the van about 12" from the garage door. I can do this, but could to do it using lower revs, with a bit more control, with the Transit's manual transmission. So, if you can comfortably get a manual up your drive under control, you should be able to do so with the comfortmatic - but you'll probably make more noise doing so, at least until you get the feel for how it responds! Sounds to me as though what you really need is an auto Sprinter with torque converter! :-) That's what I suspected. We have a Honda CR- V with a torque converter clutch which provides precision control at low revs using the brakes to control the speed. The problem is that I have to literally be inch perfect reversing up our drive. Only thing that would worry me with the sprinter is that we may be looking at a PVC for our next motorhome as we grow ever older and the sprinters are built for high mileages but not long life which is why most of the courier firms use them, and have a reputation for rust lacking the galvanised body of the Fiat. The selection of a sprinter would also limit our choice of converter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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