Mickydripin Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Hi all, Yes I am back again. I would like your opinions on something that I am thinking of doing. I would like to buy a good LWB Mercedes van and convert it to a campervan do you have anything to say about other base vehicles that are better for the job. I am looking at spending about £20,000 for van and conversion the vans that I have seen are around £10,000 so that would leave me with about £10,000 for the conversion plus I would like to do some of the work myself Would you do this or would you buy one that is already converted or would you buy a CB already converted for about the price above. I know what Pelmetman would say but would his way cost a lot more in repairs and unreliability, Sorry Pelmetman I do not mean to knock your van as I do not know what it is like or what condition it is in I am just using that type of vehicle as an example and note that you are always banging on about depreciation and costs This is not an argument about CB`s or PVC`s it is something that I have been milling about in my mind. The reason being is that I can not warrant spending forty or fifty grand on a vehicle that will stand for most of the winter. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Hi Mike, a lot will depend on the layout you want to do, a Merc is narrower than a Sevel built one (Citreon/Peugeot/Fiat) so if you wanted a transverse bed for example, you'd be better of with a Sevel. I would think, too, that a Merc will be more expensive, to purchase initially and probably to maintain, so again something to think about. I would love to do another conversion (having converted an ambulance in the past, which I absolutely loved doing and we really enjoyed) but it isn't really feasible now ... but never say never again ...! :-> A few things to think about: 1. Plan the layout carefully and ideally make yourself a full sized mock-up using cardboard boxes etc ... you can then 'move around' in the 'virtual van' and see how things will work ... eg will you be able to sit down on the loo without having to stick your legs out of the doorway; will the fridge door open fully .... etc. Try to keep the services (water, waste etc) so that they are near each other if possible to reduce pipe runs, same with cabling, heating pipes. Also don't forget to look UNDER the van too when designing your layout to make sure that you can actually put stuff where you want it without hitting something! Plan it, then leave it for a few days, then look at it again, leave it again, then look at it again ... that way you'll give yourself time to mull over things and hopefully will get a layout that suits you perfectly (or as close as you can get) without any major redesigns once you start! 2. Be realistic about what you are capable of doing and only tackle what you feel happy/competent to do. 3. Research what you want to do and price up for the various components and the labour that you'll need from others to do any of the work, also allow a good contingency just in case you come across anything you haven't included/unforeseen 'problems'. You can get some real bargains on equipment, furniture etc but you might have to hunt it out, but it could really save you a lot of dosh. 4. Don't underestimate the time it takes to do a conversion - even to do some simple jobs can take a lot longer than doing a similar job in you home due to the confines/restrictions of a van ... and some things just are never as easy as you think they'll be ... I speak from experience! :D 5. There is a Self-Build forum so joining this would make sense as I'm sure you will be given a lot of help and advice from those who have already done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Ditto the above, all good stuff. Just this year we got talking to a couple who had done their own van, it was a LWB X250 and what he had done seemed to be a very good idea if you have the space, he bought a caravan ( Ebay ) and stripped it out taking just one item like a Heki 2 rooflight you can be looking at £400, he said he had paid £3000 for the caravan which judging by the inside of his his van must of been a high end bit of kit in it's time. I'm not sure how he got on with regard to the sloping walls of a panel van, but although obviously I couldn't examine it in any great detail you would have never known it had been done from a donor caravan. He did tell me the whole thing had come in at 10k so well under your budget for a 2008 camper sounds a bit of a bargain, but I don't underestimate the work involved. My only criticism was it was a little on the dark side,as he had kept the number of windows down, perhaps his idea was more of a "stealth" van, anyway just a thought for you, and sourcing a caravan at this time of year you could get a bargain ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Mickydripin - 2013-11-16 11:26 PM I know what Pelmetman would say but would his way cost a lot more in repairs and unreliability, Sorry Pelmetman I do not mean to knock your van as I do not know what it is like or what condition it is in I am just using that type of vehicle as an example and note that you are always banging on about depreciation and costs This is not an argument about CB`s or PVC`s it is something that I have been milling about in my mind. The reason being is that I can not warrant spending forty or fifty grand on a vehicle that will stand for most of the winter. Mike What is it our teachers used to call learning.....Oh....I remember the 3 R's :D...............Perhaps a few facts and figures plus some pics of whats involved in running a 23 year old camper will help ;-)........... 1) Reliability........ Our camper has never broke down...... I've had to call the breakdown service twice in 23 years......once when my back wheels nearly fell off 8-)................but that was due to the wheel nuts not being done up tight enough after having new tyres fitted *-)........ Second time when I could smell burning from the dash 8-).............AA man stripped down dash and found nothing.......van was running fine......discovered the fuel gauge had burn't out again..........that's twice in 23 years I guess that could be classed as unreliable (lol)........ 2) Running costs....... Dam site cheaper to service and get spares for than a new van B-)....... 3) Repairs...... When Horace hit twenty I decided to embark on a rolling program of upgrades, overhauls and repairs.......the upgrades so far... airbags (wish I'd done that years ago *-)), Refillable lpg, new tv, upholstery mods, reversing camera. I have also had all the brakes overhauled with new cylinders, new tyres. As for repairs I have been getting a couple of rust spots on the wheel arches touched up for a few years, but they kept reappearing, so decided to bite the bullet as the cross member needed welding for his MOT 8-) The attached pictures will show that Horace was far from being a terminal rust bucket ;-)..........the bill for all the bodywork.....2k and that included 2 weeks car hire.............be warned the last 2 pictures are not for the squeamish 8-) The cost so far of all my upgrades overhauls and upgrades and repairs?.........less than 5k........Something that I don't consider expensive if Horace lasts another 20 years B-) .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 But the big boys have economies of scale making vans resonable value. If it has to be a Merc, how about a used westfalia James cook for instance, bomb proof interiors, top quality...what layout are you after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Hi Michael; I'm not sure about the Merc v Sevel issues, apart from RWD to FWD etc. As for going the self-convert route; ok if you have the skills, but otherwise a waste of effort and money. Main point though, is that if you are going to have a "standard" layout van at the end of the process, then why bother? Spend your £20K on a good used van. If you have some special features or layout you want to achieve, then go for it; but think the layout through, because it'll all be down to you if it doesn't work!! regards alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-11-17 9:56 AM Mickydripin - 2013-11-16 11:26 PM I know what Pelmetman would say but would his way cost a lot more in repairs and unreliability, Sorry Pelmetman I do not mean to knock your van as I do not know what it is like or what condition it is in I am just using that type of vehicle as an example and note that you are always banging on about depreciation and costs This is not an argument about CB`s or PVC`s it is something that I have been milling about in my mind. The reason being is that I can not warrant spending forty or fifty grand on a vehicle that will stand for most of the winter. Mike What is it our teachers used to call learning.....Oh....I remember the 3 R's :D...............Perhaps a few facts and figures plus some pics of whats involved in running a 23 year old camper will help ;-)........... 1) Reliability........ Our camper has never broke down...... I've had to call the breakdown service twice in 23 years......once when my back wheels nearly fell off 8-)................but that was due to the wheel nuts not being done up tight enough after having new tyres fitted *-)........ Second time when I could smell burning from the dash 8-).............AA man stripped down dash and found nothing.......van was running fine......discovered the fuel gauge had burn't out again..........that's twice in 23 years I guess that could be classed as unreliable (lol)........ 2) Running costs....... Dam site cheaper to service and get spares for than a new van B-)....... 3) Repairs...... When Horace hit twenty I decided to embark on a rolling program of upgrades, overhauls and repairs.......the upgrades so far... airbags (wish I'd done that years ago *-)), Refillable lpg, new tv, upholstery mods, reversing camera. I have also had all the brakes overhauled with new cylinders, new tyres. As for repairs I have been getting a couple of rust spots on the wheel arches touched up for a few years, but they kept reappearing, so decided to bite the bullet as the cross member needed welding for his MOT 8-) The attached pictures will show that Horace was far from being a terminal rust bucket ;-)..........the bill for all the bodywork.....2k and that included 2 weeks car hire.............be warned the pictures are not for the squeamish 8-) The cost so far of all my upgrades overhauls and upgrades and repairs?.........less than 5k........Something that I don't consider expensive if Horace lasts another 20 years B-) .... Looks a good un, and considering the last time I "swapped" it cost me 8k to go up a couple of years albeit with a much better speced van ( our current IH ) but the only issue I would have is noise, those old transits always sound like a Fordson tractor, apart from that given that my EU full recovery stipulates a maximum age of 20 years how do you get round that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 snowie - 2013-11-17 10:10 AM Hi Michael; I'm not sure about the Merc v Sevel issues, apart from RWD to FWD etc. As for going the self-convert route; ok if you have the skills, but otherwise a waste of effort and money. Main point though, is that if you are going to have a "standard" layout van at the end of the process, then why bother? Spend your £20K on a good used van. If you have some special features or layout you want to achieve, then go for it; but think the layout through, because it'll all be down to you if it doesn't work!! regards alan b Ditto ;-)....................If I were in the market for another van with the OP's budget.......I'd be looking for a one owner cherished vehicle..........preferably waxoyled ;-)..........probably on a Transit base as the spares are cheap and ubiquitous B-)............Old style Autosleeper with the glass fibre body would be high on my wish list for about 10k...........leaving 10k of beer tokens......... :D Not to mention converting a van from scratch takes months.............OK if you have the skills and the time :-| .............If your still working then I suspect it can take years :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-11-17 10:13 AM Looks a good un, and considering the last time I "swapped" it cost me 8k to go up a couple of years albeit with a much better speced van ( our current IH ) but the only issue I would have is noise, those old transits always sound like a Fordson tractor, apart from that given that my EU full recovery stipulates a maximum age of 20 years how do you get round that ? Horace is much quieter than my 99 Transit works van ;-).................probably due to the engine bay sound proofing being removed from the 99 van, probably to save a few coppers *-)........ As for breakdown cover abroad.......ADAC gold cover..........no age restriction B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-11-17 10:29 AM 1footinthegrave - 2013-11-17 10:13 AM Looks a good un, and considering the last time I "swapped" it cost me 8k to go up a couple of years albeit with a much better speced van ( our current IH ) but the only issue I would have is noise, those old transits always sound like a Fordson tractor, apart from that given that my EU full recovery stipulates a maximum age of 20 years how do you get round that ? Horace is much quieter than my 99 Transit works van ;-).................probably due to the engine bay sound proofing being removed from the 99 van, probably to save a few coppers *-)........ As for breakdown cover abroad.......ADAC gold cover..........no age restriction B-) You should start a thread, maybe called "bargain bangers" I might be a convert. :D oddly enough we have a tranny with a fibre glass body right on my doorstep for £5995........................mind you it's an auto. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnerontheroad Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 ADAC Gold is a credit card do they give breakdown cover with it? Or did you mean ADAC Plus. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 johnnerontheroad - 2013-11-17 10:53 AM ADAC Gold is a credit card do they give breakdown cover with it? Or did you mean ADAC Plus. Dave Yes :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-11-17 10:35 AM You should start a thread, maybe called "bargain bangers" I might be a convert. :D oddly enough we have a tranny with a fibre glass body right on my doorstep for £5995........................mind you it's an auto. :-( What a good idea :-D.......................I could highlight bargains like this on there ;-) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T4-Merlin-Coachbuilt-Camper-/111218826205?pt=UK_Campers_Caravans_Motorhomes&hash=item19e5289bdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 ARGHHHH...................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-11-17 2:05 PM ARGHHHH...................................... :D :D One for the connoisseur ;-) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1992-AUTOHOMES-TRAVELHOME-4-Berth-/171174628478?pt=UK_Campers_Caravans_Motorhomes&hash=item27dacd8c7e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Mickey does not need OR deserve more grief!........... ENOUGH ALREADY!?!? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-11-17 3:21 PM Mickey does not need OR deserve more grief!........... ENOUGH ALREADY!?!? :-S Eh? :-S................He asked for advice on whether it would be better to quote......"Buy or to build".........so far it appears to me that most people are in the to buy camp ;-)...........he was also of the view that older campers equal unreliability :-S.............a misconception I was happy to correct ;-)......... So unless Mickey has a particular itch to scratch with regard to designing and building his own camper, then looking for an older camper would be his quickest and easiest root back to motorhoming :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-11-17 6:40 AM My only criticism was it was a little on the dark side,as he had kept the number of windows down My self converted X2/50 Maxi Van doesn't have any windows behind the front seats. The interior space is about the size of a room in a house that would have one window the size of the windscreen. So the glass area seems about right to me, I don't find it claustrophobic at all - if you want to see out you sit in the front , if you want privacy you sit in the back. I can't understand the point of having windows all over the place like a greenhouse, you lose so much wall space and it must make it insufferably hot in summer. But I realize I am in a minority. Just a thought - when you have done all the work of the conversion its unlikely to sell for what its cost you in money, let alone time, however good it is conversions that have not been done by a recognized manufacturer don't fetch much money. So have you thought of buying one that someone else has converted? (Mine is not for sale by the way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-11-17 3:41 PM JudgeMental - 2013-11-17 3:21 PM Mickey does not need OR deserve more grief!........... ENOUGH ALREADY!?!? :-S Eh? :-S................He asked for advice on whether it would be better to quote......"Buy or to build" where did he say he would love to renovate a wreck! your like a worn record...No one but you would bother!lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-11-17 5:28 PM pelmetman - 2013-11-17 3:41 PM JudgeMental - 2013-11-17 3:21 PM Mickey does not need OR deserve more grief!........... ENOUGH ALREADY!?!? :-S Eh? :-S................He asked for advice on whether it would be better to quote......"Buy or to build" where did he say he would love to renovate a wreck! your like a worn record...No one but you would bother!lol Will building a camper from scratch involve less work Eddie? ;-)............... How about this old banger then?...........and 12k change :D..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-swift-kon-tiki-vogue-665-campervan-6-berth-/261332374292?pt=UK_Campers_Caravans_Motorhomes&hash=item3cd89f9314 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 You're not listening. Mickey is "considering" building on a modern'ish van just like Peter James..nowhere has he said he wants to enter a scrap heap challenge...... Have you any ideal what they have been through so far.. And he wants a Merc I believe, so I suggested a used James Cook or similar, which can be had from Germany around budget, have a bomb proof build quality...Or he can buy the Merc van which can be difficult, as sourcing a decent commercial van thats not been run into the ground, as this is how they are used.... Or get a camper, that is my suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-11-17 5:50 PM You're not listening. Mickey is "considering" building on a modern'ish van just like Peter James..nowhere has he said he wants to enter a scrap heap challenge...... Have you any ideal what they have been through so far.. And he wants a Merc I believe, so I suggested a used James Cook or similar, which can be had from Germany around budget, have a bomb proof build quality...Or he can buy the Merc van which can be difficult, as sourcing a decent commercial van thats not been run into the ground, as this is how they are used.... Or get a camper, that is my suggestion. 2006 is modern to me 8-)...............but in view of his previous trials and tribulations, I'd of thought embarking on building your own is not the way to save money or hassle :-S..............but I agree with your James Cook suggestion.....well built vans B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 On the question of alternative base vehicles, as Mel has said the SEVEL vans are widest, so are more versatile in the types of layouts they can accommodate. Another factor that may be relevant re FWD versus RWD, is floor height. Because the RWD vans have to accommodate a prop shaft below their floors, the floor is noticeably higher from the ground. It is reasonably comfortable to step from the ground into a FWD van load area. It is not so with a RWD van and, as none of us is getting younger (sorry to mention the unmentionable Guys and Gals :-)), and knees etc begin to stiffen with age, a step is liable to be essential. The same rule applies to the cab doors: it is a bigger step up, so ease of access is worth considering before getting too hitched to a RWD base. If you're happy with the floor height, and want RWD, then Ford Transit, Iveco Daily and VW Crafter also do RWD (or 4WD with Iveco) in a variety of weights, lengths and heights. Generally cheaper than Merc but, at least in the case of the Iveco, I think a bit narrower still. If wanting the lower FWD floor, the alternatives are the Renault Master/Vauxhall Movano (also Opel Movano, though I'm not sure if it is marketed in UK) clones might be worth a look. Wider than the Sprinter/Crafter/Transit, but with greater side curvature from top to bottom meaning the width at floor/roof level will be less than for a SEVEL. However, when all that is said and done, a self-build is a big enterprise, and buying a used pre-converted van would give instant usability and much greater cost certainty. Perhaps a better alternative might be to go for a used van, and then get it professionally converted. Many of the smaller, UK based, converters will do this, and within reason will vary their "standard" layouts to suit individual requirements. A number will also source you a good used van. That way, you also get to choose the interior finishes and fabrics, so it starts off the way you want it. I'll make a cheeky suggestion (apologies Nick! :-)) that if you decide on a Fiat Ducato, it may be worth PMing Nick Fisher (euroserv) who runs and maintains a fleet of Ducato hire vans, to see if he has, or knows of, anything reasonably sound that would be suitable. High mileage should not be a problem, as once in your ownership subsequent mileage will presumably be quite modest. Good maintenance will be far more important than mileage, and NIck knows his vans, both individually and technically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Then there's throw renault master, wider than the merc. Built like a brick s h .... 2007 2.5 150 hp quick shift 6 gear box ( not an auto, but a robotroic clutch) sat nav, aircon, ect. £7000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Den - 2013-11-17 9:58 PM Built like a brick s h .... Its built to minimise weight like the rest of them. They have to be to give a decent payload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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