Mickydripin Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 Hi all, Sorry for not coming back for a while as the flu bug has decided to pay me a visit. But WOW what a response and I would like to thank you all for your great advice and looking at this I think that there is a little self builder in all of us. The first question was what sort of layout would I like well for a start I would like a proper toilet so that the feet do not hang out in the isle with the door open, then I would like a good sized fridge as most of the PVC,s seam to be very small I also want a french bed Longitude or latitude whichever fits in best I want a prep area at the side of the sink as even most of the CB,s seam to lack. My first van I purchased it took me four months to make it liveable so I do have some ides of what is needed. A lot of the work will be done by professionals so I will have to look for someone close to me as possible. The reason that I said a merk was for durability and I had seen what looked like a good one for just under ten grand and had only done 45k I first thought of a VW crafter but was put off them as an ambulance driver said they were a load of rubbish and were in the garage more than on the road. After reading the advice about the Fiats I will have a look at them as well I know that space is at a premium on any PVC and I will have to collect a few cardboard boxes to build it first in my garage to see if everything will fit. I have taken everything in mind that you have all said and am giving the tape measure a good work out going around measuring everything that I need and putting it all in my little book. This time I will make dammed sure that things go right. Many thanks: Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 This matches your spec I think, large central shower/toilet, 1500mm wide french bed (don't get a bed this size even a CB), decent kitchen & preparation.....Maybe our next van (cant make my mind up between two): http://tinyurl.com/otx6oyg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickydripin Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 This matches your spec I think, large central shower/toilet, 1500mm wide french bed (don't get a bed this size even a CB), decent kitchen & preparation. --------------------------------------------------------------- Yes it possibly would Judge but can you Pleeese tell me where I can get one for around twenty grand as that is what I was proposing to pay. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 You won't Mike - but................if you can find a good, second hand, 6.36M Ducato, and take that to a decent converter, he may be able to build you something similar for somewhere near your budget. You could get some idea of the conversion cost by contacting converters with the Possl plan Eddie posted, and asking for a rough guide quote. I think this may be your best route to satisfaction. If you can find a converter near where you live, you can keep an eye on progress as the build progresses, which will also give you a good idea where all the services were run after they have been covered up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Its a new layout and only out his year so no 20K ones around..New LHD is about 36K I had meant to add Brians contribution as well, but was in a rush out the door! I think its as Brian says, a good blueprint that can be personalised. they use concertina doors. but you could have one concertina on far side to block bedroom, and a normal door on front end that opens to form the shower room. but these manufacturers have economies of scale that I think you will find difficult to replicate here at less cost unfortunately, unless you have the DIY skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 In my experience, good second hand commercial vans for sale are as rare as hens teeth. But if you are prepared to economize on the interior instead of the van its just about possible to have a new X2/50 camper van for £20k http://www.perrys.co.uk/new-citroen-relay/page/2 PS the photos in the link are all of the same van, some of them are twice the cargo space of the one pictured, some are even chassis cabs, you need to download a brochure from the Citroen website for accurate pictures. But Perrys are a reputable main dealer, established over 100 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Mickydripin - 2013-11-20 12:05 AM The reason that I said a merk was for durability and I had seen what looked like a good one for just under ten grand and had only done 45k I first thought of a VW crafter but was put off them as an ambulance driver said they were a load of rubbish and were in the garage more than on the road. After reading the advice about the Fiats I will have a look at them as well I know that space is at a premium on any PVC and I will have to collect a few cardboard boxes to build it first in my garage to see if everything will fit. The Merc Sprinter & VW Crafter are the same van built in the same factory different engines & gearboxes. The one thing that would put me off them is the quality of paintwork. Bodies tend to come out in rust bubbles all over in places you would never expect. A friend had a La Strada that went all rusty, a neighbour has a Crafter brought the van new and converted himself has a constant battle with rust. Not only is the Fiat a decent size all the important bits are galvanised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 But no vans have car quality paint work :-S But agree the X250 the most practical van for a conversion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-11-20 6:04 PM Mickydripin - 2013-11-20 12:05 AM The reason that I said a merk was for durability and I had seen what looked like a good one for just under ten grand and had only done 45k I first thought of a VW crafter but was put off them as an ambulance driver said they were a load of rubbish and were in the garage more than on the road. After reading the advice about the Fiats I will have a look at them as well I know that space is at a premium on any PVC and I will have to collect a few cardboard boxes to build it first in my garage to see if everything will fit. The Merc Sprinter & VW Crafter are the same van built in the same factory different engines & gearboxes. The one thing that would put me off them is the quality of paintwork. Bodies tend to come out in rust bubbles all over in places you would never expect. A friend had a La Strada that went all rusty, a neighbour has a Crafter brought the van new and converted himself has a constant battle with rust. Not only is the Fiat a decent size all the important bits are galvanised. I heard a story that about 20 years ago the directors of Mercedes had a meeting where they decided their vehicles were over engineered, and they were going to concentrate more on volume and profit. I don't know whether that is true, but what I have seen since does bear it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Like the OP I have often dallied with the idea of a 'bespoke' PVC conversion. My main reason is that I need an auto and these are expensive when you wish to buy new. However, there are some points which have made me think about it very carefully. 1. As mentioned by others getting a decent 2ndhand van is difficult. Many have had hard lives in a short period of time and many may be ex hire vehicles, so have been driven with complete disregard. To get anything at all decent appeared to me to be in the 15-20k bracket exc VAT, so about £20000 before you start. Although a van with 100k plus miles on it may be cheap, I really do not fancy facing the bills that will inevitable follow. 2. Unless you are a qualified builder and have a lot of time and a fitted workshop, DIY is not going to be the best way forward. Firstly it will take far far longer than you expect and secondly the end result will be unsellable when the time comes. So you need to look at a converter with a good reputation so you get a good job and it does have a resale value. You can always get them to do the hard parts allowing you to play with the easy bits but you need to add up all the costs, especially if you wish specific modifications. Again, what you like may not be the next owner's choice, which is why most main stream models have a uniform style. My late father converted his Transit motorhome way back in the 80's as he did not like the layout. He was a wood craftsman so the workmanship was excellent but he decided that as he and my mother had no need for lots of hanging clothes while on trips, he did away with most of the wardrobe to get space. Fine for him but it all had to be put back again to sell after his death. I have a suspicion that by the time you are finished you could be in the same area as decent 2ndhand machines, which of course have a pedigree. Of course these may not have all the requirements you wish for so you have to make the choice. It is also true that if you are looking at a just a basic conversion then you can get a cheap finished product and again it is in his area that a bespoke converter may offer a better deal for you. As they say, at this point in time 'I am just browsing'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashpark Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Dave225 - 2013-11-21 3:28 PM Like the OP I have often dallied with the idea of a 'bespoke' PVC conversion. My main reason is that I need an auto and these are expensive when you wish to buy new. However, there are some points which have made me think about it very carefully. 1. As mentioned by others getting a decent 2ndhand van is difficult. Many have had hard lives in a short period of time and many may be ex hire vehicles, so have been driven with complete disregard. To get anything at all decent appeared to me to be in the 15-20k bracket exc VAT, so about £20000 before you start. Although a van with 100k plus miles on it may be cheap, I really do not fancy facing the bills that will inevitable follow. 2. Unless you are a qualified builder and have a lot of time and a fitted workshop, DIY is not going to be the best way forward. Firstly it will take far far longer than you expect and secondly the end result will be unsellable when the time comes. So you need to look at a converter with a good reputation so you get a good job and it does have a resale value. You can always get them to do the hard parts allowing you to play with the easy bits but you need to add up all the costs, especially if you wish specific modifications. Again, what you like may not be the next owner's choice, which is why most main stream models have a uniform style. My late father converted his Transit motorhome way back in the 80's as he did not like the layout. He was a wood craftsman so the workmanship was excellent but he decided that as he and my mother had no need for lots of hanging clothes while on trips, he did away with most of the wardrobe to get space. Fine for him but it all had to be put back again to sell after his death. I have a suspicion that by the time you are finished you could be in the same area as decent 2ndhand machines, which of course have a pedigree. Of course these may not have all the requirements you wish for so you have to make the choice. It is also true that if you are looking at a just a basic conversion then you can get a cheap finished product and again it is in his area that a bespoke converter may offer a better deal for you. As they say, at this point in time 'I am just browsing'. You make some very good points Dave, as have others on this topic. I'm guessing most folk on here may have given the idea of doing a self built a thought at some point in their lives, me included. I'm not sure if I was looking in the wrong places, but several Insurers seemed unwilling to give a quote on self builds. Obviously some do as I know there are members here who have SBs and have insurance (you have, haven't you ;-) ) ..........but does it limit the options for cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 There are brokers who will get cover for all sorts of selfbuilds. As others have mentioned there are Forums who will be able to give the right info. I look at the idea as I fancied a 'cheap' van for pottering about as we have a caravan we use for long holidays, but by the time I have added it all up I would be as cheap to just take package holidays or use hotels, for all the time I would actually spend throughout the year. But it is nice to daydream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Maybe mine is not a perfect example but I bought our IH Savannah Tio in the dead of winter for £16750 after a few weeks of haggling that was nearly 4 years ago, fully loaded with half leather, cruise control, full cooker with oven, shower, in fact you name it, just sold it for £16000, so apart from the inevitable running costs like tyres etc, it's cost me £750 for four years usage, and not one bit of DIY that could take you months...... was it perfect, well what is, but very sad see it go, and because it's a "premium known brand name is like others have said the big difference between residual price than that and a self build as nice as some are like the beautiful Merc LWB I mentioned in another thread, but that took the guy a year, and costs just ran away from his original budget he told me :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-11-21 4:17 PM Maybe mine is not a perfect example but I bought our IH Savannah Tio in the dead of winter for £16750 after a few weeks of haggling that was nearly 4 years ago, fully loaded with half leather, cruise control, full cooker with oven, shower, in fact you name it, just sold it for £16000, so apart from the inevitable running costs like tyres etc, it's cost me £750 for four years usage, and not one bit of DIY that could take you months......was it perfect, what is, but very sad see it go, and because it's a "premium known brand name is like others have said the big difference between that and a self build as nice as some are :-( Blimey that's a bargain Mike......but your now Motor homeless Mike..............are you looking for another? :-S............... Oh......just clocked your updated profile......Whats the Rapido like? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Blimey 1foot'!..I hadn't realised that you'd got rid of the IH?....and for only 16K..? Someone got a bargain there, didn't they..... :-S Re: Self-build. Even if someone has the time, facilities, overriding desire and enthusiasm to carry out (AND finish!)a self build, if it's only going to have a "standard(ish)" layout, then personally I'd be just looking for a decent used van... It's not uncommon for "self builds" to end up being *worth less than the sum of their parts... (* in monetary terms that is). But it also follows that many, many people travel extensively and have great adventures in vans that probably only cost a fraction of the average purchase price paid by folk on here.. :-S Oops! Sorry Dave,I crossed your post(..in fact my last couple of lines above, could've been written with your "Bargain Bangers" thread in mind. ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Well I'm hoping we've had a bargain as well, but two days in I am having second thoughts about being in a lorry like vehicle again, forgotten what a din they kick up compared to a PVC, not to mention 0 to 60 in three weeks, and something I swore I would never do again. The big issue is my other half has bad Osteo and a bed that did not involve crawling on hands and knees has had to take priority, couldn't find that in a PVC within our budget hence the change, maybe when the IH on the X250 lwb with two fixed single beds is around 8 years old I'll look again ( if I'm still around that is ;-) now where can I get some mirror protectors for those stupidly long Fiat mirrors. (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Mirror Guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Ashpark - 2013-11-21 3:48 PM I'm not sure if I was looking in the wrong places, but several Insurers seemed unwilling to give a quote on self builds. Obviously some do as I know there are members here who have SBs and have insurance (you have, haven't you ;-) ) ..........but does it limit the options for cover? I have no idea as I just kept my X2/50 maxi van as a LGV. Road tax £220, Insurance is £152.64 (Churchill) - just make sure the insurance company appreciates its not being used for commercial carriage of goods (not all do) or they will want a lot more. Never had any trouble getting on the ferries as a motorhome as I am happy to open the door and let them see inside. Being an LGV it has lower speed limits (50 single carriageway, 60 dual carriageway, 70 motorway) but I am not in a hurry and it saves fuel :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 The LGV taxation group throws up an interesting question, although our ( ex ) IH was converted from new it still showed LGV on the V5, on taking this up with both IH, and the DVLA it appears even many professional conversions remain LGV, even though in our case DVLA changed the description to Motor caravan after much faffing the V5 came back STILL with the taxation class LGV........go figure. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I dred to think of the problems I would have with the DVLA getting the classification changed from a van to a motorhome (and why bother?) It was bad enough just getting the seating capacity changed from 3 to 2 http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/333779-front-seats-ducato-compatible-2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Peter James - 2013-11-22 5:41 PM I dred to think of the problems I would have with the DVLA getting the classification changed from a van to a motorhome (and why bother?) It was bad enough just getting the seating capacity changed from 3 to 2 http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/333779-front-seats-ducato-compatible-2.html It's easy as long as the photos show the bits that you need to make it a motorcaravan. I've done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Muswell - 2013-11-22 7:59 PM Peter James - 2013-11-22 5:41 PM I dred to think of the problems I would have with the DVLA getting the classification changed from a van to a motorhome (and why bother?) It was bad enough just getting the seating capacity changed from 3 to 2 http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/333779-front-seats-ducato-compatible-2.html It's easy as long as the photos show the bits that you need to make it a motorcaravan. I've done it. Yes I did too, mainly not to give my insurer wriggle room if it came to a claim, £1500 value as a van, or 16k for a motor caravan seems a sensible thing to do. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 http://www.reimo.com/en/campingbusse/ausbauten_mb-sprinter_vw-crafter.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-11-22 9:44 PM Yes I did too, mainly not to give my insurer wriggle room if it came to a claim, £1500 value as a van, or 16k for a motor caravan seems a sensible thing to do. ;-) Me too "1foot" and it's straightforward. For anyone wanting to define a motorcaravan, see this; http://www.caravanwise.co.uk/motor/diycamper.html regards alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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