Leisure batteries...a waste of money.

[Brian Kirby]

Good finds Roger!

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Another 15 minutes of my life wasted watching all of them to hear " there is no such thing as a leisure battery.............................great. 8-) that's me then, down the scrappers

 

So Brian, have I done sufficient researching ?

[Madge Gentle]

I just love these threads that develop into a sniping contest.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

*-) *-) *-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Too many "experts" trying to impose their point of view on one another, it's a man thing, like who can pee over the wall the highest back in school days. ;-) even though I ALWAYS could :D

[Colin Leake]

I had a leisure battery for four years in a caravan then transferred it to a motorhome for another five years with no problems, other than the fact that the dealer who took our old motorhome in PX found that said battery was completely knackered. How come? Well we always used sites with hookups so never noticed the battery would not hold a charge so may be if this is what you do a cheap battery may be fine.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Colin Leake - 2013-11-23 10:20 PM

 

I had a leisure battery for four years in a caravan then transferred it to a motorhome for another five years with no problems, other than the fact that the dealer who took our old motorhome in PX found that said battery was completely knackered. How come? Well we always used sites with hookups so never noticed the battery would not hold a charge so may be if this is what you do a cheap battery may be fine.

 

If you do that you don't need a battery at all ! ! ! (!)

[bolero boy]

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-23 10:24 PM

 

Colin Leake - 2013-11-23 10:20 PM

 

I had a leisure battery for four years in a caravan then transferred it to a motorhome for another five years with no problems, other than the fact that the dealer who took our old motorhome in PX found that said battery was completely knackered. How come? Well we always used sites with hookups so never noticed the battery would not hold a charge so may be if this is what you do a cheap battery may be fine.

 

If you do that you don't need a battery at all ! ! ! (!)

 

Perhaps someone can confirm this.

 

I thought, incorrectly?, that to run your lights etc from 12v the EHU charged the battery and the battery supplied the power........or can the charger (converter?) take the 230v and convert directly to 12v for running the lights, water pump, heater fan, 12v sockets etc?

[lennyhb]

Depends on the charger some are capable of running the electrics directly others require the battery to smooth the output of the charger to give a proper smoothed d.c. output. Also low power chargers of 5-10 amp output would need a battery in circuit to cope with high current demands.

Our last caravan a Hobby did not come with a battery or charger just a 12v mains powered power supply (charger was an option) as the Germans take the view that caravans will always use EHU .

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

That's exactly what it does, it's a power supply and charger, however if you did not have a battery you would need to insulate the battery terminals for obvious reasons, that's one of the reasons for folk who exclusively use hook up saying their ( knackered ) battery has lasted for years.

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-23 7:47 PM

 

Another 15 minutes of my life wasted watching all of them to hear " there is no such thing as a leisure battery.............................great. 8-) that's me then, down the scrappers

 

So Brian, have I done sufficient researching ?

Oooh, you are a grouch! But, hohestly? I don't think it would matter how much research you do, as you seem to read with half an eye, listen with half an ear, and then fail to think constructively about what you are reading and hearing. The resulting confusion drives you on here complaining that something else in the world is not as you'd like it, or you can't understand it - only to be told again and again, that you are largely suffering the disadvantages of your own faulty listening, reading, and understanding. You now have all the information that you should need to be able to figure out what kind of battery is commonly described as a "leisure battery". If you put a bit more effort into thinking, instead of sniping at everyone, you'd have been there way back. Go figure!

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Perhaps you should view all three videos from the "experts" you may see that right at the end they say there is no such thing as a "leisure battery" if that is the case it seems we are being at best led up the garden path by the promoters of "leisure batteries" as a distinctly different product from other types.

 

From what I can see the closest to a true leisure battery designed to be constantly charged and discharged is a traction battery, I'll get one of those next time....................hopefully I'll get what I pay for. ;-)

 

As for sniping at everyone, I reserve that for just a special few on here who get right up my tits with their seeming-less endless need to impress on all things known to man and try to treat most every one else as idiots, (!)

[chas]

When I need to replace my leisure battery, I will replace it with another leisure battery, not a starter motor battery, I don't care what so called experts say ! IMO there is no conspiracy to hood wink the buying public, both type batteries have different charging characteristics, and always have had. End of. :D

[Tracker]

chas - 2013-11-24 12:05 PM

When I need to replace my leisure battery, I will replace it with another leisure battery, not a starter motor battery, I don't care what so called experts say ! IMO there is no conspiracy to hood wink the buying public, both type batteries have different charging characteristics, and always have had.

 

Fair enough, but I think you miss the basic thrust of this thread which is that many alleged leisure batteries are nothing more than rebadged starter batteries and buying a cheaper battery would do many people just as well with the longer the warranty period the better.

 

It also depends on your type of use. If you use ehu a lot any old battery will probably suffice for smoothing out the power and as a small reservoir of 12 v for when on the road, but if you camp off grid a lot then a couple of proper high quality leisure batteries would probably serve you better?

 

We will of course all decide, based on the available information, which is now more widely available thanks to the like of this thread, which type is most likely to work better for our own use.

 

However I would say that to save a few quid on batteries that will probably turn out to be inadequate seems churlish given the cost of the vehicles - and yes, whilst there might not a conspiracy between makers some are better than others in the integrity stakes it would appear?

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-24 11:53 AM Perhaps you should view all three videos from the "experts" you may see that right at the end they say there is no such thing as a "leisure battery" if that is the case it seems we are being at best led up the garden path by the promoters of "leisure batteries" as a distinctly different product from other types.

What makes you think I didn't watch all three? They are a bit dumbed down, but clear enough. His point about leisure batteries seems to me clear enough. He is saying that, terms of their construction, nothing is specifically made as a leisure battery.

 

He may be exaggerating a bit to make his point, but surely the message is clear enough? What gets sold as a leisure battery, is more probably something primarily made for another purpose, that gets labelled as a leisure battery for marketing purposes. It is in the labelling that the deceit, on the part of some brands, arises. I thought that clear enough.

 

From what I can see the closest to a true leisure battery designed to be constantly charged and discharged is a traction battery, I'll get one of those next time....................hopefully I'll get what I pay for. ........

Exactly, one with thick, heavy, plates that will weigh a lot for its stated capacity. That is why weight is important. So, a good leisure battery should be a re-badged traction battery, and not a re-badged starter battery. That, more or less, is where we started, is it not?

 

I'm afraid your point regarding your sniping is plain silly. You seek advice and guidance. Then you complain that those who try to answer your requests are know-alls. So, what do you want - only answers from those who don't know? In fact, far from being just a few, your record on gratuitous rudeness spreads to a very wide group indeed which, given the reason you quote to excuse it, doesn't reflect very well on you, does it? Get that monstrous chip off your shoulder, and you'll find others are even more ready to try to help you out.

[Tracker]

Brian Kirby - 2013-11-24 1:11 PM

Exactly, one with thick, heavy, plates that will weigh a lot for its stated capacity. That is why weight is important. So, a good leisure battery should be a re-badged traction battery, and not a re-badged starter battery. That, more or less, is where we started, is it not?

 

Not quite exactly as some 'leisure' batteries have been known to have very thick casings which also weigh a lot and could easily give the illusion of lots of lead?

 

Not that any maker would deliberately mislead anyone by making their casings stronger and less prone to impact damage, would they?

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Brian Kirby - 2013-11-24 1:11 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-24 11:53 AM Perhaps you should view all three videos from the "experts" you may see that right at the end they say there is no such thing as a "leisure battery" if that is the case it seems we are being at best led up the garden path by the promoters of "leisure batteries" as a distinctly different product from other types.

What makes you think I didn't watch all three? They are a bit dumbed down, but clear enough. His point about leisure batteries seems to me clear enough. He is saying that, terms of their construction, nothing is specifically made as a leisure battery.

 

He may be exaggerating a bit to make his point, but surely the message is clear enough? What gets sold as a leisure battery, is more probably something primarily made for another purpose, that gets labelled as a leisure battery for marketing purposes. It is in the labelling that the deceit, on the part of some brands, arises. I thought that clear enough.

 

From what I can see the closest to a true leisure battery designed to be constantly charged and discharged is a traction battery, I'll get one of those next time....................hopefully I'll get what I pay for. ........

Exactly, one with thick, heavy, plates that will weigh a lot for its stated capacity. That is why weight is important. So, a good leisure battery should be a re-badged traction battery, and not a re-badged starter battery. That, more or less, is where we started, is it not?

 

I'm afraid your point regarding your sniping is plain silly. You seek advice and guidance. Then you complain that those who try to answer your requests are know-alls. So, what do you want - only answers from those who don't know? In fact, far from being just a few, your record on gratuitous rudeness spreads to a very wide group indeed which, given the reason you quote to excuse it, doesn't reflect very well on you, does it? Get that monstrous chip off your shoulder, and you'll find others are even more ready to try to help you out.

 

I didn't seek guidance and help on this matter from you, if you take the trouble to re-read my OP I said " "cue the experts" how odd then as you as usual pop up as being an authority on almost every matter under the sun, you should get rid off your own sense of importance, and perhaps have a little more humility, you don't know everything, or do you really think you do ?

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-24 4:28 PM..............I didn't seek guidance and help on this matter from you, if you take the trouble to re-read my OP I said " "cue the experts" how odd then as you as usual pop up as being an authority on almost every matter under the sun, you should get rid off your own sense of importance, and perhaps have a little more humility, you don't know everything, or do you really think you do ?

Well, if you were not seeking help or guidance, why your original post?

 

This is an open forum, to be read by all comers. At the point I joined in, I thought your string was lacking useful information that might have been helpful to a wider group. So, I set out what I know.

 

I'm not going to apologise to anyone for knowing more about some things than you do. Neither am I going to apologise to you if that annoys you.

 

To answer your pointless question directly, I do not think I know everything. Indeed, I am fully aware that there are many things about which I know little or nothing. On those things I do not comment.

 

However, what I do know, whether it is more or less than you know, I am happy to share with others, I hope for their assistance. If you gain from that I am equally happy, even though that gain seems to make you unhappy. I am also happy to be corrected if what I post is wrong: we all learn from our mistakes, but learning from the mistakes of others is generally more agreeable. :-D So, if you will kindly point out the errors in what I have posted on this string about leisure batteries I will be grateful.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I'm sure you really know my OP was tongue in cheek, hence "cue the experts" as it was so called experts behind the original article, which should have made an interesting discussion, not a lesson in battery technology that may surprise you to know I suspect most of us know exactly the same as the "expects" and I really don't need you telling me I half read, or half listen, or whatever you said.

 

We have a mutual loathing, that started with your dogged determination to prove you were correct about the non existent boiler discussion, that you simply could not bring yourself to admit you were talking through your proverbial, and your dislike for me was probably prompted by my stance on immigration.

 

I think the lesson in life you should have learnt long before now is some people you instinctively dislike, I'm sure that is mutual in our case, let's leave it at that shall we ? (!)

 

[Tracker]

Brian Kirby - 2013-11-24 6:40 PM

However, what I do know, whether it is more or less than others know, I am happy to share with others as I hope for their assistance.

I am also happy to be corrected if what I post is wrong: we all learn from our mistakes, but learning from the mistakes of others is generally more agreeable.

 

With apologies for the editing Brian, but I think you have encapsulated the whole point of this forum therein.

 

A point that seems to be lost on those with an agenda for disruption, point scoring and attempting to prove how smart they are.

 

And I don't necessarily mean our 12" mate to whom you were responding!!

 

Opinions will always differ but as long as all sides to the discussion are available we can each make up our own minds.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

He's not at all happy to be corrected, try it and see what happens, he's like a dog with a bone, he wont let go, and as far as I'm concerned is a know it all, that simply does not know it all ;-) that was never better demonstrated when I had the temerity to challenge him once, and he could not simply accept he was wrong..................most people who worship on the alter of Kirby do not challenge him

 

As for proving how smart they are, my view is he does that in spades, others may have a different view which is fine, perhaps he's like Marmite, and I could never stand the stuff.

[bolero boy]

lennyhb - 2013-11-24 9:41 AM

 

Depends on the charger some are capable of running the electrics directly others require the battery to smooth the output of the charger to give a proper smoothed d.c. output. Also low power chargers of 5-10 amp output would need a battery in circuit to cope with high current demands.

Our last caravan a Hobby did not come with a battery or charger just a 12v mains powered power supply (charger was an option) as the Germans take the view that caravans will always use EHU .

Thanks Lenny.....and Mike!

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2013-11-24 6:49 PM

 

I'm sure you really know my OP was tongue in cheek, hence "cue the experts" as it was so called experts behind the original article, which should have made an interesting discussion, not a lesson in battery technology that may surprise you to know I suspect most of us know exactly the same as the "expects" and I really don't need you telling me I half read, or half listen, or whatever you said.

 

We have a mutual loathing, that started with your dogged determination to prove you were correct about the non existent boiler discussion, that you simply could not bring yourself to admit you were talking through your proverbial, and your dislike for me was probably prompted by my stance on immigration.

 

I think the lesson in life you should have learnt long before now is some people you instinctively dislike, I'm sure that is mutual in our case, let's leave it at that shall we ? (!)

Well, there you go, I took your original post as a plea for information on leisure batteries. Silly me! :-)

 

Re the loathing, you are wrong. I don't loathe you: I don't know you. I don't like a lot of what you write, and I certainly intensely dislike the way you write most of it. But loathe YOU? No.

 

Re instinctive likes and dislikes. I learned another lesson. They are unreliable. I have instinctively disliked some people I have come to like, and vice versa. So, I now tend to reserve judgement until I know the person adequately. Besides, who knows who on here is real, or merely an invention? Silly to draw conclusions about people on such slim evidence, I think. So yes, leave alone.

[Frank McAuley]

I have always found this site and it's contributors to be most helpful; it' my first reference point! I have been informed that I need two "New Leisure Batteries" compounded by the discovery that the dealer fitted two unmatched batteries!

I was delighted that a related thread was live but soon became frustrated by the personal attack on Brian that was most evident and unfounded! Absolutely no call for it but, perhaps, Brian you should ignore it.

As usual thank you for the advice and hopefully contributions can be viewed in a positive fashion by others- we don' t need 'corner boy reactions'- please!

[colin weston]

To get back to the topic of this thread! I have been looking to replace the leisure battery on my daughter's VW based 1995 Autosleeper Trident. The voltage, measured with a meter, is 0 volts so I believe the battery is beyond help. As she bought the van a year ago and the van had been little used during the previous two years both batteries had been neglected. (The starter battery was replaced prior to purchase). I also read the CC article and was proposing to buy a quality leisure battery. Checking with Autosleeper, I was informed that they fitted as a leisure battery a VW 67 amp/hr diesel battery. On seeking clarification today I was informed by their service department that they currently fit a similar 'starter' battery to the only VW T5 that they currently produce, i.e. the Topaz.

The current auxiliary battery fitted to my daughter's van is a 68 amp/hr 'Energiser Plus' EP68J which I suspect is a normal starter battery.

I can appreciate the view that if one uses an EHU all or most of the time then a starter battery would be fine, otherwise a leisure battery of appropriate construction would be better able to cope when an EHU is not available.

As a final point can anyone shed light on why, in the Autosleeper Trident Owner's Manual under electrical fault diagnosis it states that if the second (auxiliary) battery is not charging or holding charge the cause could be that the auxiliary battery amp hour rating is incompatible and the remedy is to use equal amp hour rating auxiliary battery. This implies that both batteries should have the same rating. Is there a technical reason for this?

[Derek Uzzell]

The Energiser Plus battery fitted to your daughter's Trident is definitely a 'starter-battery'

 

http://tinyurl.com/qasasom

 

http://tinyurl.com/q4u6pwp

 

I thought there might be a dimensional issue that would prevent a 'genuine' leisure-battery being fitted, but a quick on-line check reveals not.

 

It's possible (I suppose) that a VW Transporter's charging system might have some quirk that makes it preferable to have a 'starter-battery', rather than a 'leisure-battery', as the auxiliiary battery. Similarly, if there's was something about a Trident's system that demanded that an auxiliary battery have an equal (or similar) Ah capacity to that of the engine-battery.

 

Dunno - Auto-Sleepers will have produced the Trident Owner's Manual, so may be able to advise, and also say why they choose to fit a starter-battery to the current Topaz as the auxiliary battery.