Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Well it seems Gaslow have now updated their bottles with an in bottle filter, and a new gauge after the "old" one has proven less than reliable..............has anyone bought one yet I wonder, and their impressions of the new bottle would be handy as with a change of van I'm in the market for some new refillables Gaslow or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 As you know Mike, we haven't got a "refillable" but the idea of a filter of sorts does sound like a good one...even if it was a separate "bolt-on" item... (Can I ask, why you didn't just move your refillable from the IH?...wasn't it quite new?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 pepe63 - 2013-11-26 10:18 AM As you know Mike, we haven't got a "refillable" but the idea of a filter of sorts does sound like a good one...even if it was a separate "bolt-on" item... (Can I ask, why you didn't just move your refillable from the IH?...wasn't it quite new?). Yes brand new this year, together with new 140 watt solar panel...................but leaving them on clinched the deal I think, plus I got ( I hope ) a fantastic deal on the Rapido, time will tell about that though. As for the in bottle filter Gasit do an external one that can be easily be screwed on, which I also bought, I'm wondering about the long term implications of an internal filter that presumably is not user accessible on the new Gaslow bottle though, mmmm the gauge on the Gasit bottle was next to useless which was another reason to leave it on the IH and check out this new Gaslow bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Mike you say the level gauge on the Gas-it bottle was next to useless, which bottles did you have 2 hole or 4 hole? With the 2 hole bottle to gauge is really only a gas pressure gauge like the old Gaslow one and will only really tell you when the cylinder is empty. The 4 hole bottle has a proper float gauge which will accurately measure the cylinder contents across the full range we have these and find them to be very accurate. The new Gaslow gauge is a float gauge so should be accurate but it only measures content of the cylinder when it falls below 50%. Edit: Can't find anything on the Gaslow site about an in bottle filter. Gas-it do an inline filter and a R/A filter that screws directly onto the bottle both about £25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-11-26 10:49 AM Mike you say the level gauge on the Gas-it bottle was next to useless, which bottles did you have 2 hole or 4 hole? With the 2 hole bottle to gauge is really only a gas pressure gauge like the old Gaslow one and will only really tell you when the cylinder is empty. The 4 hole bottle has a proper float gauge which will accurately measure the cylinder contents across the full range we have these and find them to be very accurate. The new Gaslow gauge is a float gauge so should be accurate but it only measures content of the cylinder when it falls below 50%. The Gasit bottle I bought had a mechanical valve that I was told measured the quantity of gas by a float that was attached to a magnetic slide in the neck of the bottle,the gauge is clipped on and senses the position of the gas magnetically as it falls within the sensing range in the bottle neck, Gasit themselves when questioned admitted they were sometimes problematical and advised I should give the neck of the bottle a sharp blow to unstick it, or it would free itself of in the course of use............although being new and only refilled a few times it was crap, that is now it seems from what I've read acknowledged by Gaslow with the same gauges that now apparently read the entire contents of the bottle, rather that the last 50%, that's all know for now. This is what they say New for 2013/14 - R67 Cylinders with improved gauges and internal filters - as below. The new R67s (left) have added features that means they can be classified as refillable cylinders or as refillable lpg tanks across Europe. Features include an improved and mechanically accurate full-range contents gauge with permanently attached readout, an excess flow valve to protect against gas escape on hose rupture, an over-pressure safety valve, 80% fill limiter, and a new but much needed internal filter to help guard against some of the 'oiling' issues of recent years. They come with a 10-year R67 warranty too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Sounds like you brought the 2 Hole bottles, if you go for Gas-it again get the 4 Hole ones a bit dearer but you won't be disappointed. Is the in bottle filter easily removable for cleaning? I think I would prefer a separate filter than is easy to take off with the bottles in situ for cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-11-26 11:41 AM Sounds like you brought the 2 Hole bottles, if you go for Gas-it again get the 4 Hole ones a bit dearer but you won't be disappointed. Is the in bottle filter easily removable for cleaning? I think I would prefer a separate filter than is easy to take off with the bottles in situ for cleaning. Lenny that's one of the things I'm trying to find out, an internal filter sounds a bit odd, how would you know if it is becoming blocked, can you take it out and clean it, but I'm with you I bought an external Gasit filter which on the face of it sounds a much better idea, and I take on board what you say about the 4 hole version Gasit bottle.....................but if this new Gaslow bottle does have a full range gauge it's around £50 cheaper, mmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-11-26 11:41 AM Is the in bottle filter easily removable for cleaning? I think I would prefer a separate filter than is easy to take off with the bottles in situ for cleaning. Agree,that's what I'd want of a filter, something that could be easily stripped and cleaned(..AND preferably, whilst gas was still in the cylinder). ..so the "R67" bit is a "regulation" that it's satisfying then? http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Gaslow_R67_11kg_Refillable_Cylinder_.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 pepe63 - 2013-11-26 11:54 AM lennyhb - 2013-11-26 11:41 AM Is the in bottle filter easily removable for cleaning? I think I would prefer a separate filter than is easy to take off with the bottles in situ for cleaning. Agree,that's what I'd want of a filter, something that could be easily stripped and cleaned(..AND preferably, whilst gas was still in the cylinder). ..so the "R67" bit is a "regulation" that it's satisfying then? http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Gaslow_R67_11kg_Refillable_Cylinder_.html Can't figure that one out either, a pal who's got an "old" Gaslow system has all the EU regulation certification in multiple languages printed out from Gaslow for his setup, from what I can determine the R67 has a new gauge and new filter hence the new model number but I'm not entirely sure, I guess the easiest thing to do is telephone them, but I was curious if any forum user had got these new bottles to comment on them first. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Appears to be a bit difference in price of Gas-it 2 hole bottles & 4 hole never used to be that much. They are doing the filter at 14.99 if ordered with a bottle . I made the price difference between Gas-it & Gaslow only 13 quid . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-11-26 12:44 PM Appears to be a bit difference in price of Gas-it 2 hole bottles & 4 hole never used to be that much. They are doing the filter at 14.99 if ordered with a bottle . I made the price difference between Gas-it & Gaslow only 13 quid . Just to muddy the waters Lenny, I can't see the point in a two bottle system I found one more than adequate, but only if, ( and with my last experience it's a bit of a question mark ) the new Gaslow bottle does indeed have an accurate gauge measuring all the contents, although on the face of it I'm not keen on the idea of the filter being inside. I have emailed Gasit technical yesterday to pose some questions regarding any changes to their bottles in view of Gaslow bottle changes, but as yet have had no reply. :'( Off out now to fiddle with my new ( second hand ) van. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I'm guessing that the "internal filter" isn't there to remove impurities from the LPG. Years ago, when Gaslow had not long begun to market refillable gas-bottles in the UK, I recall Richard Cecil (of MTH Autogas fame) comparing critically the design of Gaslow cylinders with that of considerably more expensive 4-hole STAKO-made bottles. Besides slating the quality of the former's contents-gauge float-system, he pointed out that a Gaslow cylinder's outlet had no protection within the bottle to minimise the possibility of liquid gas entering the 'pigtail' leading to the regulator when LPG in the bottle was slopping around when the motorhome was being driven. The outlet of a STAKO bottle, conversely, had a metal tube attached to it inside the bottle. The tube (I can't remember what Richard called it) had performations in it that allowed gas vapour to pass through easily, but acted as a filter to prevent gas in liquid form reaching the outlet. If this is what Gaslow's R67 cylinder now has, maintence of the 'filter' won't be necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I read it is to prevent oil residues entering the system, but is that correct, I do not know, and the gauge states Mechnically accurate contents gauge - offers a better idea to how much gas you have left over the older style magnetic system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 The statement "...a new but much needed internal filter to help guard against some of the 'oiling' issues of recent years.." appears on the Gaslow-related part of this website http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/gaslow_all_catalogue.htm However, although Gaslow's own R67 advertising leaflet http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/pdf/Gaslow_R67_leaflet.pdf mentions an "internal filter", no explanation is given about the filter's purpose. It was initially claimed that the 'oil' problem was due to liquid gas collecting in a pigtail's interior and reacting with plasticisers in the pigtail's construction. Hence the current recommendations to keep pigtails short and to ensure they always incline upwards towards the bulkhead-mounted regulator. And if pigtails with no plasticisers in them are used (eg. the Gaslow stainless-steel core ones), that should sidestep the problem. Truma, however, has always maintained that the problem lies with the LPG itself and stated that there continue to be instances where, despite best practice and stainless-steel pigtails, their regulators have still been damaged. So it's a win-win situation - Gaslow can market stainless-steel pigtails and Truma can market gas-filters. Suggest you contact the website owner about the filter's purpose http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/contact.htm's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I wonder why LPG gas filters are apparently fitted to cars converted to run on autogas, and need to be changed periodically ? Perhaps Truma are correct, not much use to the end user if people buying in to the Autogas refillable market have not been made fully aware of the need for a filter on their motor home installations. And to muddy the waters more Gasit actually say those fancy stainless hoses are unnecessary from what I can see http://www.autogas-lpg.co.uk/30--filters The mystery thickens........................... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Gaslow began to advertise their standard refillable gas-bottles in France quite recently and (based on their R67 leaflet) it would appear that those cylinders' compliance with French regulations may have been challenged. There's nothing new about refillable gas-bottles being marketed in France. For at least 10 years Borel has offered a 13kg "HomeGaz" cylinder with European R 67 01 homologation. http://www.borel.fr/index.php/gpl-vehicule-loisir.html I suspect there has been little take-up for the Borel bottle as the asking-price was/is high (€635 in a 2006 "Masters Accessoires" catalogue) and the standard Gaslow cylinders were massively cheaper. If it turned out to be Borel that complained about the Gaslow bottles' compliance it wouldn't surprise me. (That's pure speculation, incidentally!) Filters for LPG bottles have also been marketed for a long time, in high- or low-pressure types. The former types attach to the bottle and the latter are fitted 'downtream' of the regulator. In 2006 a low-pressure filter's asking-price was €135, so I doubt too many of them were sold. The (relatively inexpensive) high-pressure filters marketed for on-bottle fixing have been of the type used in fuel-systems fitted to cars running on Autogas. When the 'oiled-up regulators' furore blew up in the UK around 2004, I wondered if adding this type of filter would be worthwhile. However, as the filters then being offered were designed to remove particles from liquid gas, I was doubtful that they would be effective in removing 'oil'. I eventually managed to identify the Italian company that manufactured the filters and e-mailed them about this, but a reply was not forthcoming. Truma now markets the on-bottle "Gasfilter" (around £70) and describes it's purpose as follows: "Protect the gas pressure regulator and the valves from soiling and oil contamination. The gas filter is installed upstream of the gas pressure regulator. It filters evaporation residue (oily aerosols) from the flow of gas before they are deposited and clog up the regulator. And 99% of this residue is removed (conventional particle filters only manage 30% within this range). Perfect for problem-free operation and a long service life." Borel seems to be offering something apparently similar at €69 There's an informative filiter-related thread here: http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-122320.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Derek, worth mentioning Gasit do a filter for £26.99, I bought one when we bought a bottle from them earlier this year. ;-) not sure about the composition of the element though, I would have thought a sintered element would be the name of the game, not sure what the Gasit brand is ? P.S, I've posted on the Truma thread following your kind offer of help ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I'm not totally convinced about this oil theory, it only appears to be Truma that have a regulator problem. Dave on another thread recommended removing your bottles every few years and upending them to drain any oil residues in the bottle. I noticed recently my fridge often wouldn't light if gas level was getting low in the bottle so gave the draining a go as they have been in use for over 5 years. Left a bottle upside down for over an hour absolutely nothing came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 But, is it not the case that the problems with Truma regulators primarily, if not exclusively, arose with refillables? If my memory is correct (open to question! :-)), that would suggest there is something in autogas that is absent in the gas in exchange cylinders, or possibly something missing from autogas that is present in exchange cylinder gas. I don't think this was ever fully resolved - debates over the merits of SS pigtails over rubber etc notwithstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Anyone have or know much about Alugas aluminium bottles as I managed to get my dealer to throw those in on the new van. Does not appear to be any filter in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-11-27 10:23 AM I'm not totally convinced about this oil theory, it only appears to be Truma that have a regulator problem. Dave on another thread recommended removing your bottles every few years and upending them to drain any oil residues in the bottle. I noticed recently my fridge often wouldn't light if gas level was getting low in the bottle so gave the draining a go as they have been in use for over 5 years. Left a bottle upside down for over an hour absolutely nothing came out. Still begs the question why LPG filters are on cars converted to LPG, after all you'd think a little oil getting into an engine wouldn't matter, unless of course something can gum up the fuel injection systems. As for the Truma bulkhead reg, I'm tempted to take mine out of my newly acquired van and stick with a 5 quid on bottle reg, and do as I have for many years and that is to change it fairly often even if there was no particular reason to do so, but so simple to carry or obtain spare as well :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 with pictures....:-D http://www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/its-a-gas-dave-king-explains-how-to-avoid-clogging-up-your-caravans-gas-regulator-4693/ 2 bottles really come into their own when in Spain where LPG stations few and far between. but will stick with two anyway purely for convenience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-11-27 11:19 AM But, is it not the case that the problems with Truma regulators primarily, if not exclusively, arose with refillables? No. Statistically only a relatively small percentage of UK motorcaravanners use refillable bottles and hardly any UK caravanners. But the majority of the failures of Truma (and of Cavagna) bulkhead-mounted regulators related to motorhome owners and caravanners using exchange-only bottles. That's why Calor got heavily involved - if the failures could have been successfully linked to 'dirty' autogas I'm certain that UK bottled-gas suppliers would have been overjoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 And so it goes on, Arghhhh just found this..............I'm going to stop surfing the net I think 8-) Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:29 pm Thank this member for this postReply with quote Add User to Ignore List Back To Top Joined: Jan 10, 2009 Posts: 151 MH: Swift Sundance 590RL Campsites Gender: None specified Status: Offline On our recent trip to France we met a couple who had had three regulators fail with the Gaslow system. Is there something about Gaslow and regulators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 And I have had two Truma securemotion failures within 2 years......Carry a spare and fit a filter *-) Plus your quote does not mention categorically make of regulator! Only that it's a gaslow system And if you use their stainless steel pigtail Cleese valve gets a 5 year warranty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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