Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-11-27 2:49 PM And I have had two Truma securemotion failures within 2 years......Carry a spare and fit a filter *-) Plus your quote does not mention make of regulator! And if you use their stainless steel pigtail Cleese valve gets a 5 year warranty Funny old world Eddie isn't it, been doing this game more years than I dare to remember, never once had an on bottle bog standard propane reg fail. had one on a bottle for a blow torch that I used for over thirty years........... and never used up all the gas either..........................progress eh. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-11-27 2:04 PM Brian Kirby - 2013-11-27 11:19 AM But, is it not the case that the problems with Truma regulators primarily, if not exclusively, arose with refillables? No. Statistically only a relatively small percentage of UK motorcaravanners use refillable bottles and hardly any UK caravanners. But the majority of the failures of Truma (and of Cavagna) bulkhead-mounted regulators related to motorhome owners and caravanners using exchange-only bottles. That's why Calor got heavily involved - if the failures could have been successfully linked to 'dirty' autogas I'm certain that UK bottled-gas suppliers would have been overjoyed. Thanks Derek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Hymer and other German manufacturers still fit bottle top regulators as standard. Against my better judgement I've ordered the "Truma Duo Control CS mit Umschaltautomatik und EisEx" on the new van working on the theory with the new version Truma may have got it right, I will carry a bottle top reg for emergencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Get the filter also *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 afternoon folks, The gasit filter is washable and £26 unlike the truma which is £70 and needs filter at £34 a time. Always carry aspare regulator. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildi Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I have the new R67 bottle, the gauge may well be giving a true reading but sadly as it faces up, there is no way I can see it unless I take the bottle out of the locker. I also have one of the older bottles with a gauge on the side and a gauge on the change over (a job to see this as it faces down) but none of them give a good reading. Its a manual change over so when one runs out I change over then fill the other up. I have a secumotion regulator top mounted and have had no problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 use a mirror or take a picture with your phone or camera *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildi Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-11-27 5:22 PM use a mirror or take a picture with your phone or camera *-) Not enough room, I had to fit the 90 deg adaptor on the filler hose as it was close to the top of the locker. As the spare is 11kg I don't think I will run out overnight (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 mildi - 2013-11-27 5:07 PM I have the new R67 bottle, the gauge may well be giving a true reading but sadly as it faces up, there is no way I can see it . You couldn't make it up could you, that is probably going to apply to most vans on the market, a dentist mirror and a torch could be the answer. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildi Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-11-27 5:42 PM mildi - 2013-11-27 5:07 PM I have the new R67 bottle, the gauge may well be giving a true reading but sadly as it faces up, there is no way I can see it . You couldn't make it up could you, that is probably going to apply to most vans on the market, a dentist mirror and a torch could be the answer. :'( I was thinking of a micro surveillance camera and a light fitted into the gas locker with the camera wired to the reversing monitor on the dashboard............................. or Gaslow could have had a brainwave and put the gauge ON THE SIDE >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 mildi - 2013-11-27 5:33 PM JudgeMental - 2013-11-27 5:22 PM use a mirror or take a picture with your phone or camera *-) Not enough room, I had to fit the 90 deg adaptor on the filler hose as it was close to the top of the locker. As the spare is 11kg I don't think I will run out overnight (lol) really? gaslow bottles must be taller than Stako ? I have no trouble in my Adria...would think locker similar size to yours.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 mildi - 2013-11-27 5:48 PM 1footinthegrave - 2013-11-27 5:42 PM mildi - 2013-11-27 5:07 PM I have the new R67 bottle, the gauge may well be giving a true reading but sadly as it faces up, there is no way I can see it . You couldn't make it up could you, that is probably going to apply to most vans on the market, a dentist mirror and a torch could be the answer. :'( I was thinking of a micro surveillance camera and a light fitted into the gas locker with the camera wired to the reversing monitor on the dashboard............................. or Gaslow could have had a brainwave and put the gauge ON THE SIDE >:-) I'm sure there must have been an engineering reason that has not happened, but it does seem a huge fundamental design flaw if that is not the case, but I like the sound of your solution, could be a Dragons den pitch idea ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 goldi - 2013-11-27 3:31 PM afternoon folks, The gasit filter is washable and £26 unlike the truma which is £70 and needs filter at £34 a time. Always carry aspare regulator. norm The burning question is whether the extra cost of the Truma product is worthwhile. If (as seems likely based on its price) the Gas-it filter is of the type Truma describes as "a conventional particle filter" and only capable of removing 30% of any contaminants in the LPG vapour, it might well be worth paying £44 more for a Truma Gasfilter that's claimed to trap 99%. The snag with your suggestion to always carry a spare regulator is the financial implications of doing this. It used to be fine when basic on-bottle regulators were the norm and their price was just a few quid, but a Clesse regulator will cost over £30, a Truma Secumotion regulator will cost over £60, while the latest Truma CS regulators are even dearer. In lennyhb's case, the cost to obtain a spare Truma Duo Control CS device is likely to be £130 minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 mildi - 2013-11-27 5:07 PM I have the new R67 bottle, the gauge may well be giving a true reading but sadly as it faces up, there is no way I can see it unless I take the bottle out of the locker. This is a potential difficulty that will apply to all refillable gas-bottles that have theiir contents-level gauge fitted horizontally into the bottle's upper surface. It is possible, for the 4-hole bottles marketed by Gas-It and for some others, to obtain a remote contents indicator as described here: http://www.gasit.co.uk/index.php?_a=product&product_id=325 (Ive no idea if a remote indicator could be fitted to a Gaslow R67 bottle: there's no mention of one in Gaslow's leaflet.) I also came across this http://www.gasfachfrau.de/1eng_alugas-tankflasche.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I think I'll wait until it's sorted, myself and many others bought into the idea of refillable bottles on the promise of gauges that gave a reasonable idea of contents, by their own admission they have been proved to be pretty useless, even Gasits advice to me to clout the bottle neck speaks volumes, let's see how these new improved ones go, but I personally think the gauge being on the top is not the best of starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 While it's not ideal to have a contents-level gauge horizontal in the top of a refillable gas-bottle, the design and construction of a metal bottle makes the top of the bottle the logical and most practicable position to place the gauge. Realistically, a refillable bottle needs to be a similar shape to that of a metal exchange-only bottle, which means it needs to be a cylinder with curved sides. Not only will the curved sides complicate fitting an 'on the side' gauge, but designing the internal mechanism to read the contents-level will be made much more difficult. 3-hole and 4-hole refillable bottles (that historically have had the most accurate gauges) have a conventional cylindrical shape with a flat section at the top into which can be installed filler and outlet fittings. This is where those fittings need to go and it makes sense to put the gauge-fitting there too, where it will be protected and allow an internal mechanism capable of measuring the full contents-range. Although the motorcaravanning.co.uk website states that Gaslow's new R67 container includes "an improved and mechanically accurate full-range contents gauge with permanently attached readout", Gaslow's own advertising leaflet for their R67 bottle merely says that it has "an accurate, robust and dependable mechanical mechanism" - no mention is made that the "full range" of contents can be measured. It's plainly possible to measure the contents of a gas-bottle from full to empty via a system where a float moves in a vertical line from top to bottom. However, the norm has been to use a system where a float is attached to a pivoted arm and swings in an arc. The principle is shown on the 3rd page of this Gaslow leaflet. http://www.gaslow.co.uk/pdf/Filling-Instructions-2012.pdf It will be obvious from the drawings that, to maximise the range that a gauge could read with this type of system, the pivot of the swinging arm needs to be offset from the cylinder's centre-line as far as practicable and the length of the arm+float needs to be as long as practicable. In the 2-hole Gaslow bottle's case, although the pivot is well offset, the swinging-arm+float is quite short. That's why the system can only measure a range from 50% full to 18% full. It would be interesting to know what sort of mechanism operates the R67 bottle's gauge as, if a swinging-arm arrangement is still employed, it's unlikely the mechanism can measure a 100%-0% range. Regarding reading a 'horizonta'l gauge, I mentioned earlier that remote contents indicators were available for some refillable bottles and also gave a link to a Geman website. I note that this website offers a "mirror plate" that clips on to the gauge permitting it to be viewed more easily. http://www.gasfachfrau.de/1eng_tankflaschen_fernanzeigen.html That such a gizmo exists and was felt worthwhile marketing suggests that there's a need for it. I don't know if it's available in the UK, but it t would be easy enough to DIY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-11-27 7:07 PM I think I'll wait until it's sorted, myself and many others bought into the idea of refillable bottles on the promise of gauges that gave a reasonable idea of contents, by their own admission they have been proved to be pretty useless... Mornin' Mike... Aren't you focusing just a little too much on the accuracy(or not) of the gauges here?...Surely one of the main advantage of the refillable, is that you can just top up as and when, so minimizing the chances of running out anyway... If all folk wanted was an "accurate" way of seeing how much gas they had, then they may as well have just bought one of those "sonic pen" things...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 For the 4 hole Stako bottle Gas-it do a remote sensor so you can monitor the lever from inside the van its cheap as well. Remote Sensor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-11-27 6:20 PM Clesse regulator will cost over £30, a Truma Secumotion regulator will cost over £60, while the latest Truma CS regulators are even dearer. In lennyhb's case, the cost to obtain a spare Truma Duo Control CS device is likely to be £130 minimum. Not quite I said I would carry a bottle top regulator for emergencies obviously I would need a bit of plumbing as well so I could fit it if needs be. Have there been any reports of "Duo Control CS" failing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Mine, and many other peoples beef is even though we bought in to the idea of a gauge, in the majority of cases that I have read, and spoke to other people about is it wasn't fit for purpose, I'm trying to imagine how a fully accurate mechanical gauge has been achieved, but it really makes you wonder if that has been achieved why the dial of the gauge could have not been designed for sideways on reading even if it is mounted on the top of the bottle, I mean blimey what about a little mirror prism, perhaps an after market accessory will come along. I've always thought a transparent bottle that has been marketed more than once, and still is, would have been by far the easiest and most accurate way to go for a refillable ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 As a back up in case of regulator failure, will one of these on bottle and cheap regulators be worth carrying as an emergency spare? Don't really want to get caught out again..twice was enough! I don't know if this is correct size for a stako bottle but posted just as an example http://www.amazon.co.uk/Propane-Gas-Regulator-hose-clips/dp/B001GYQZOE/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1385629939&sr=8-10&keywords=lpg+gas+regulator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 That's the route I'm going Eddie the tried and tested on bottle reg, I'm taking out the bulkhead reg altogether, then back to the old fashioned and trouble free days of yesteryear a reg and length of gas hose to connect it to the gas input pipework which is what I suspect you would have to do as well, and changing every season for additional peace of mind for a fiver seems a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 And just to reinforce the point, this bloke with his brand new R67 bottle say's it all, have a read. (!) http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-146293-helpppp-r67-gaslow-bottle.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildi Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 The reason for my Gaslow purchase was to be able to refill at LPG station on our six month trip through Europe, I went from 2 x 6kg Calor to 1 x 11kg Gaslow and a 6kg Calor as a back up with a manual change over. All should have been good but I must have changed to the wrong Calor bottle before we left the UK and it wasn't till the Gaslow had run out and I had switched to the Calor back up and that ran out the next day. The gauges on the Gaslow were next to useless and if I had a full Calor it would have been ok. To cut a long story short Gaslow posted me out the R67 11kg bottle (postage £20) to France, ordered at 4pm on the Tuesday and it arrived on the campsite 11am Thursday morning . Again the gauge is useless because of it's position on the top of the bottle but now with two Gaslow bottles it doesn't matter. The only way I would be able to see the R67 gauge would be if I bought 2 x 6kg Gaslow. Overall very happy with the Gaslow system apart from the gauges. with 2x 11kg I don't have to think about the gas running out anymore. When I just had Calor I did by one of the Truma sonic gas level checkers which was very good but expensive, now useless as it doesn't work on Gaslow due to the float inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 not a clue what size gaslow are but you may have been better of getting the 4 hole STAKO bottles from gas it as mine with handles removed fit fine.... "Size 300mm x 580mm - The carrying handle can easily be unbolted to reduce the overall height of the bottle." http://www.gasit.co.uk/index.php?_a=product&product_id=74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.