Guest JudgeMental Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Blimey Roland sounds like a proper world of grief......So what's next a swift? :D And for the benefit of the sad little englanders on here...when I damaged my euramobil, Motorhome coachcraft ordered parts from euramobil and did the work..What is the big deal exactly? considering I saved about 30% on van buying abroad. Do you really think brownhills (agents at the time) would have been any better...You really make me laugh coming out with any lame excuse even when confronted by repeated evidence of terrible build quality. "Doh..but there is a 10 year warranty" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Roland's sobering tale 8-)........... Only goes to reinforce my view................that if your happy with your layout.............and your camper has been problem free................then hang onto it as you'll save yourself a wodge of money and a potential load of grief ;-).......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-12-02 2:40 PM Blimey Roland sounds like a proper world of grief......So what's next a swift? :D And for the benefit of the sad little englanders on here...when I damaged my euramobil, Motorhome coachcraft ordered parts from euramobil and did the work..What is the big deal exactly? considering I saved about 30% on van buying abroad. Do you really think brownhills (agents at the time) would have been any better...You really make me laugh coming out with any lame excuse even when confronted by repeated evidence of terrible build quality. "Doh..but there is a 10 year warranty" Nice attitude Eddie. ;-) BUT I'm amazed the OP bought another one from the same company, perhaps he got a 30% discount though eh having had all the problems before (!) by the way I think there could be a good little earner in showing us idiots how to avoid hassle and what and where to buy......................by the way did you get all your problems sorted a few months ago :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 About rejecting the motorhome. To have rejected it as the manufacturers are aware even if you are a millionaire, the legalities are a minefield. They see manufacturing faults as an everyday routine occurrence and deal with them accordingly. In a great many industries if an employee produced unsatisfactory workmanship their job would be on the line likewise management as well. The quality of cars coming off the production lines today is far better than in years gone by but the leisure industry produced motorhomes leaves much to be desired. The MCC to me is just a flag waiving load of spin. I think that these large manufacturers have legal advisers when it comes down to wording such as "unfit for purpose" and the first port of call is supposed to be the supplying dealer. In my case the manufacturer did everything possible to return the motorhome to a leak proof situation and the habitation certificate produced by their aftercare department was proof that all was well. Seven months down the line it was back. Auto-Trail produce some well built attractive motorhomes but haven't for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Hi Roland, Your last reply further justifies my thought that the poster should seek an independent, and unbiased appraisal. If Badger decides to go down the repair route via Autotrail he should ensure that the job is 'audited' by the same independent. As there is a cost involved he should seek recompense from Autotrail - not unreasonable as in my opinion - they'll be getting off lightly just doing the fix. As I said at the outset - if the dealer was so confident of doing a 'fix' you would assume he has experience of similar problems with the brand? The other points being raised about stress cracks on here and other forums beggars belief - there must be so many inherently wrong processes going on during manufacture. Doubtless all the 'experts' on here will disagree 8-) Taking Onefoots point, I have actually considered taking my marine experience into another field! because all I see is crap design and poor execution of the basic structure in a lot of CB's - forget the 'form over function' when you folks are looking to change your van next time. As far as giving advice on the forum I think I'll steer clear in future - just too many experts who seem to know so much, even when corrected [not by me] will still have the last word. Anyone with a genuine problem can always PM me - in the meantime have a nice Christmas ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-12-02 2:40 PM Blimey Roland sounds like a proper world of grief......So what's next a swift? :D And for the benefit of the sad little englanders on here...when I damaged my euramobil, Motorhome coachcraft ordered parts from euramobil and did the work..What is the big deal exactly? considering I saved about 30% on van buying abroad. Do you really think brownhills (agents at the time) would have been any better...You really make me laugh coming out with any lame excuse even when confronted by repeated evidence of terrible build quality. "Doh..but there is a 10 year warranty" Blimey Eddie this discount goes up every time you post, what you always fail to say is the saving is promptly lost when you resell. This is not the point however and thread is about the damp in the original posters van. I do love the way though that the few on here with their poorly specified euro vans are constantly trying to justify buying them. All vans and makers from what ever country get some problems with damp, you should know Eddie. Sure you get more complaints about UK built vans in the UK, after all over 80% of vans sold in the UK are built here. If you go to German forums you will not see one complaint about UK vans, ok I know none are sold their but this is 'kind of' the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I meant NCC for spin not the MCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger56 Posted December 3, 2013 Author Share Posted December 3, 2013 Thank you for all your responses, a lot to ponder. I will post again when I know what is happening although I doubt if I will be going down the rejection route as I have been there before,albeit only for holiday nightmare. Great forum was not expecting such a response thanks again to all of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 rolandrat - 2013-12-02 3:51 PM About rejecting the motorhome. To have rejected it as the manufacturers are aware even if you are a millionaire, the legalities are a minefield. They see manufacturing faults as an everyday routine occurrence and deal with them accordingly. In a great many industries if an employee produced unsatisfactory workmanship their job would be on the line likewise management as well. The quality of cars coming off the production lines today is far better than in years gone by but the leisure industry produced motorhomes leaves much to be desired. The MCC to me is just a flag waiving load of spin. I think that these large manufacturers have legal advisers when it comes down to wording such as "unfit for purpose" and the first port of call is supposed to be the supplying dealer. In my case the manufacturer did everything possible to return the motorhome to a leak proof situation and the habitation certificate produced by their aftercare department was proof that all was well. Seven months down the line it was back. Auto-Trail produce some well built attractive motorhomes but haven't for me. Roland, When your 'Still new and under warranty' vans leaked, and were repaired at the factory, Did Autotrail Extend the warranty to cover the work done ? I have an Autotrail which is still under warranty. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 No. An offer to extend the warranty would have eased the situation but it wasn't mentioned. Even when the Trackers over cab mattress was saturated with water I couldn't get a replacement, I had to dry it out and use it. I used to go passed their old factory in Immingham to get to Fisons chemical plant and always admired the narrow cabbed 307's with the wide bodies on them thinking, one day I'd buy one. What an experience. I know there are others that have endured similar problems and worse but it's how quick the manufacturer responds to situations that's the key. The Auto-Trail Club has no clout what so ever and the NCC in my opinion is a complete and utter joke when it comes to build quality issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Perhaps I'm just an old cynic, but born out of life's experience I'd say how wonderfully helpful and reassuring everyone is before they've had your hard earned cash, then suddenly the relationship changes, I always take a massive amount of salt with me when out shopping, but the feckers still manage to catch me out on occasion as my present woes demonstrate once again. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 How the manufacturers must hate these Forums, where we tell it as we find it. I presume some of the Dealers read them ? and possibly some of the Manufacturers ?. Mind you, they still don't seem to care very much. I thought it was in THEIR interests to have good relations with the 'Owners Clubs' ? Autosleepers seem to have a good Rapport with theirs. Ray The NCC seems to be an organisation for the Manufacturers and by the manufacturers, I spoke to them once at the NEC show, and that was the impression I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I do really think the internet will become the new force to be reckoned with by all suppliers of goods and services, although at the moment in it's infancy in many area's, perhaps like our recent purely on-line efforts to get a major supermarket chain to extend it's operations here, they listened and we are enjoying more competitive pricing where we were previously held to ransom as no other choice existed for us. ;-) Just needs the M/home and other sectors to get up to speed IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 rolandrat - 2013-12-03 4:49 PM Even when the Trackers over cab mattress was saturated with water I couldn't get a replacement, If you had left a window open and the mattress got rainwater on it, would you dry it out, or scrap it and order a new one *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Sorry to disappoint some of you but I've returned! - albeit just for now, I promise. I have no idea how NCC operate, or how they 'police' manufacturers in terms of quality standards or manufacturing criterion. What I DO know, is that from my recent visit to the NEC it obviously has no clout or infrastructure in place to impose regulation. Whilst I am sure there are many diligent companies out there doing Habitation Checks, working from a list of vague check points [from the NCC I believe] does not necessarily imply any knowledge of structural or design competence. I'm confident many [but certainly not all] will spot and comment on short-comings, but by then you've owned the van 12 months! Now in an ideal world - what you guys really need is a 'body' of individuals to work on your behalf with manufactures to impose acceptable standards....I'm sure there are many potential candidates on this forum.....Crinkly comes to mind. Well that's not going to happen is it! - But what about MMM and it's sister publications making a kind of 'Parkers Guide' to campers with some unbiased input, and some customer reviews. OK, so their fear will be a loss of revenue from advertising - but I bet reader uptake would skyrocket! Right so that won't happen either.....so IF you are really concerned and want to push for change why not do an owner survey on the forum? Keep it simple, and there are lots of you with time on your hands to collate it and publish the findings. Let's face it [and I've said this before] all the test reports you read [well intentioned or not] have absolutely no real technical content. In my industry that doesn't happen, magazines will comment on poor products and dubious design, because those testers are [in the main] qualified to do so. I bet the great John Hunt [for those who remember him] would be fighting your corner with MMM on some of the issues being debated. :-D :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Peter James - 2013-12-03 9:40 PM rolandrat - 2013-12-03 4:49 PM Even when the Trackers over cab mattress was saturated with water I couldn't get a replacement, If you had left a window open and the mattress got rainwater on it, would you dry it out, or scrap it and order a new one *-) Where is the connection between leaving a window open in the rain, and having a van pis*ing in water because it leaks? Maybe I misinterpreted you - are you saying you would buy a new one? Or are you saying 'just put up with it' .............You don't own an Autotrail by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 globebuster - 2013-12-03 10:14 PM Peter James - 2013-12-03 9:40 PM rolandrat - 2013-12-03 4:49 PM Even when the Trackers over cab mattress was saturated with water I couldn't get a replacement, If you had left a window open and the mattress got rainwater on it, would you dry it out, or scrap it and order a new one *-) Where is the connection between leaving a window open in the rain, and having a van pis*ing in water because it leaks? Maybe I misinterpreted you - are you saying you would buy a new one? Or are you saying 'just put up with it' .............You don't own an Autotrail by any chance? The connection is perfectly obvious - a mattress with rainwater on it. From your evasive reply I can only assume you would dry it out if it was your own mistake you were paying for a new mattress yourself, as I would. People taking the p*ss with warranty claims is what makes motorhomes more expensive, and creates a climate of confrontation. I saw a similar thing in my line of work. People would park their cars inconsiderately, which might lead to them getting accidentally scratched by a passing lorry or fork lift truck etc. If you admitted responsibility they would take you to the cleaners - full respray, compensation for lost time, hire car etc etc - for a little scratch on an old banger. So it reached the stage where nobody would admit responsibility for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Bit harsh on Roland isn't it! If his van had been leaking [which it apparently was] and the mattress was wet he'd have a valid claim - surely? I understand your cynicism over insurance, I agree - some people do take the p*ss, be it household, car or whatever. You didn't ought to tar everyone with the same brush though, least of all a fellow forum member. Maybe warranty claims are what make vans more expensive - on the other hand if you built them right in the first place.......... Do you own an Autotrail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 globebuster - 2013-12-04 10:21 AM Do you own an Autotrail? Changing the subject is a sure sign of having lost the argument. What difference does it maked whether I own an Autotrail or not.? What difference does it maked whether the claimant is a member of this forum or not.? Claiming for a new mattress because the old one had a bit of rainwater on is still taking the p*ss, lets be honest about it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Didn't realise we were having an argument! I agree, claiming for a wet mattress that has suffered rainwater damage is taking the p*ss. Claiming because of water ingress due to poor build quality is a different matter! If anyone is skating around the 'argument' it certainly ain't me. Did you read the whole of my last posting? - you shouldn't go implying other forum members are pulling a fast one - as unless I've totally misconstrued your comment that's what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Funny old world, you can bet your arse if my roof in the house leaked say after a severe storm I wouldn't just claim for the leak, I'd want the stuff that got soaked replaced as well, I would hesitate to suggest , but so would any one, including Peter. :-S If nothing else it may get these manufacturers to shape up and produce a product that did not leak so soon after leaving the factory. >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 globebuster - 2013-12-03 10:02 PM...........................so IF you are really concerned and want to push for change why not do an owner survey on the forum? Keep it simple, and there are lots of you with time on your hands to collate it and publish the findings. Let's face it [and I've said this before] all the test reports you read [well intentioned or not] have absolutely no real technical content. In my industry that doesn't happen, magazines will comment on poor products and dubious design, because those testers are [in the main] qualified to do so. I bet the great John Hunt [for those who remember him] would be fighting your corner with MMM on some of the issues being debated. :-D :-D I think this is a really good idea. However, I think it might carry more weight if the results were published in MMM than on this forum, albeit they could be gathered via the forum. Individual comments would probably have to be excluded from what was published - though I can't see why they shouldn't be revealed privately to the manufacturers if requested. The obvious problem is that one generally only hears of defects, and not of the vans that suffer no problems. Care would be needed in publishing that the results did not unfairly distort the impression of a given manufacturer, for example where a manufacturer has a dominant market share, so is liable to appear more often, or where one model develops problems, but others are generally OK. However, a continuous reader survey, asking specific questions against the various makes, with the results published annually, could be a very valuable way to inspire manufacturers to up their games. It is fortunate in the extreme that motorhome manufacturers do not build boats - or the lifeboat service would be stretched beyond imagining! :-) Maybe that is part of the problem. Leaky motorhomes are merely a nuisance (albeit for some a devastating one), leaky boats are liable to kill. That liability doubtless sharpens boatbuilders' minds somewhat. On the question of the ruined mattress, if it was spoiled as a consequence of water ingress into the van it should, of course, have been replaced during the remedial works. The spoiling was not the fault of the van owner: had the van not leaked, the matress would not have been damaged. I honestly can't see a reasonable basis for doing otherwise. Of course warranty work increases the costs of vans: if manufacturers want to control their warranty costs - build fault free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 globebuster - 2013-12-04 11:27 AM Didn't realise we were having an argument! I agree, claiming for a wet mattress that has suffered rainwater damage is taking the p*ss. Claiming because of water ingress due to poor build quality is a different matter! If anyone is skating around the 'argument' it certainly ain't me. Did you read the whole of my last posting? - you shouldn't go implying other forum members are pulling a fast one - as unless I've totally misconstrued your comment that's what you're saying. Sorry I misunderstood you, it seems we agree :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-12-04 12:31 PM ........it may get these manufacturers to shape up and produce a product that did not leak so soon after leaving the factory. >:-( .... or it may get them to deny responsibility and say you must have hit tree foliage overhanging the road ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-12-04 12:50 PM On the question of the ruined mattress, if it was spoiled as a consequence of water ingress into the van it should, but is it really 'ruined' by a bit of rainwater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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