INDECISION, INDECISION

[MRANDMRSWILLSON]

Can anyone help, please? In our search for our first motorhome we have come down to two - more or less identical in price, year, mileage, condition. One is an Autocruise Startrail, the other a Bessacar E560 35 Multijet. We're driving ourselves nuts between the two. Your opinions, please.

 

Jay

[Bolly1965]

That's a difficult one as they are very similar in layout. I guess this one is down to personal choice. Do a list of pros and cons for each one, if you really can't decide

[bolero boy]

We have a 2010 Bolero which is identical to the 560. The Startrail slightly different in that it has a different kitchen and has an overcab locker rather than the skylight roof. For us, the openness of the lounge due to the room is better than the extra storage f the overcab.

The layout suits is well, the lounge is roomy and open, the fixed bed is big enough, there is pretty good storage underneath. There is also great storage under the lounge sofas, far, far more than on most Continental vans. This allows you to spread the load between the two axles rather than having all the storage at the rear. Payload may seem a bit low on paper but, even in race trim we are comfortably under 3500.

Kitchen fine, has everything you need, shower also plenty large enough, we are equally happy to use the van facilities as those on a site.....venue of morning shower usually depends on the outside weather!

Combi heating/water OK can get two good hot showers in one heating. The heating otself is a little weak at the front due to long pipe run, but adjustment of other vents helps direct heat forward.

We carry 2 bikes on a rack at the rear (next ban will probably have a garage) so plenty of room for other kit.

Largish fresh and waste tanks usually last us 3 to 4 days without refill, we also have 2x95ah batteries, 80w solar panel and Gaslow refillable gas so can easily be independent of EHU.

The latest versions also have ALDE heating, ALKO chassis etc. i'd have no problems having another, it takes very many boxes for us and we've now done 20k miles in 3 years.

Issues, mainly with generic devices....Truma Combi developed a leak in the water jacket and the PCB failed. Thetford fridge/freezer also had a PCB problem. Both units replaced FOC under warranty.

Our dealer is only 15 miles away and is a great asset.

Good luck.

[derek pringle]

Hi,

We have a 2011 Bessacarr 560- 3ltr automatic and are very happy with it.Can not comment on Autotrail as no experience of them. Incidentally, for what it is worth we are away in the van now and the average fuel consumption showing on the trip computer is 29.6 mpg

 

cheers and good hunting

derek

[Brock]

I assess motorhomes based on 'must have' and 'wants'. I assume you have sorted out the 'must haves' to narrow the purchase down to two options. 'Must haves' are those things that the vans being considered must have otherwise you would discount them; for example number of berths, layouts, size and build quality.

 

'Wants' are of less importance because they are the nice to have. For example, the colour of trim, cooking facilities, bathroom. The things that will make the van more usable/attractive to you.

 

Think of say your top 5 'wants'. Award each 'want' a weighting. The total weighting must equal 100. For example, bathroom weighted 25, comfortable bed 30, kitchen 20, built in TV 5, fabrics 20. You can go beyond 5 but the more you have, the harder the decision will be in the end - I'd say maximum of 10. I will often include 'how does it feel' to allow for the emotional side of the purchase decision.

 

Score each of the vans against the wants. The best scores 10 and you assess the other against that score. It is not scoring each van out of ten. So if you like the fabrics in van A the best, score van A as 10; if the fabrics in van B are nearly as good, score that at say 8. If you think the TV in van B is best, score it as 10 and the one in van A, which is only half as good, gets 5. And so on. Set aside your scores for an hour or so and then review. Adjust the scores if necessary.

 

Then write down the reasons for the scores. This is important. Should at any future date you question your decision, then you can look back at the scoring and why you scored it at that level. This will give you the confidence you made the right choice at that time.

 

Then multiply the scores given by the weighting e.g. fabrics for van A will be 20x10 = 200. Tot up the scores for each van. Highest score wins.

 

This is a recognised technique for decision making when comparing options based on facts. Somewhere I have a copy of the one I did for the van purchase I made in August. I can dig it out if it will help [not your models] but it might take me a week to do so.

 

Using pros and cons is a viable alternative. When you list them, give the pros for each van a score out of 10. Then do the same for the cons. Van A may score 7 for pros and 3 for cons. Van B might score 10 for pros and 7 for cons. Van A will be best for those who want a sensible van with low risks, Van B for those who want a great van and are prepared to accept the risks. Be very clear in your own mind what sort of van you want because if you do not, you will assess the pros and cons incorrectly.

 

There are numerous decision making techniques that are proven to work at:

 

http://www.mindtools.com/pages/main/newMN_TED.htm

 

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Get it independently damp checked and weighed before getting carried away *-)

[Tracker]

If the Autocruise is a pre Swift era van then Autocruise every time as they were a better build quality than the Swifts of the time.

 

What years are the two you are considering and if you have a link to either or both more objective thoughts would probably be forthcoming?

[Mike88]

JudgeMental - 2013-12-03 10:49 AM

 

Get it independently damp checked and weighed before getting carried away *-)

 

Yep! All that damp certainly adds to the weight and reduces payload. ;-)

[bolero boy]

Brock - 2013-12-03 9:32 AM

 

I assess motorhomes based on 'must have' and 'wants'. I assume you have sorted out the 'must haves' to narrow the purchase down to two options. 'Must haves' are those things that the vans being considered must have otherwise you would discount them; for example number of berths, layouts, size and build quality.

 

'Wants' are of less importance because they are the nice to have. For example, the colour of trim, cooking facilities, bathroom. The things that will make the van more usable/attractive to you.

 

Think of say your top 5 'wants'. Award each 'want' a weighting. The total weighting must equal 100. For example, bathroom weighted 25, comfortable bed 30, kitchen 20, built in TV 5, fabrics 20. You can go beyond 5 but the more you have, the harder the decision will be in the end - I'd say maximum of 10. I will often include 'how does it feel' to allow for the emotional side of the purchase decision.

 

Score each of the vans against the wants. The best scores 10 and you assess the other against that score. It is not scoring each van out of ten. So if you like the fabrics in van A the best, score van A as 10; if the fabrics in van B are nearly as good, score that at say 8. If you think the TV in van B is best, score it as 10 and the one in van A, which is only half as good, gets 5. And so on. Set aside your scores for an hour or so and then review. Adjust the scores if necessary.

 

Then write down the reasons for the scores. This is important. Should at any future date you question your decision, then you can look back at the scoring and why you scored it at that level. This will give you the confidence you made the right choice at that time.

 

Then multiply the scores given by the weighting e.g. fabrics for van A will be 20x10 = 200. Tot up the scores for each van. Highest score wins.

 

This is a recognised technique for decision making when comparing options based on facts. Somewhere I have a copy of the one I did for the van purchase I made in August. I can dig it out if it will help [not your models] but it might take me a week to do so.

 

Using pros and cons is a viable alternative. When you list them, give the pros for each van a score out of 10. Then do the same for the cons. Van A may score 7 for pros and 3 for cons. Van B might score 10 for pros and 7 for cons. Van A will be best for those who want a sensible van with low risks, Van B for those who want a great van and are prepared to accept the risks. Be very clear in your own mind what sort of van you want because if you do not, you will assess the pros and cons incorrectly.

 

There are numerous decision making techniques that are proven to work at:

 

http://www.mindtools.com/pages/main/newMN_TED.htm

 

 

In the case of the OPs (in) decision', these vans are, to all intents and purposes, identical. They are 'badge engineer' versions of the same van. I described some of the differences between them in my above reply but i would be talking about two vans of identical condition, age, mileage etc.

The 'must haves' and 'wants' have already been melted down into this particular design or we wouldnt be comparing two vans which are, ostensibly, the same.

I'm guessing we are now down to the colour of trim, design of kitchen cupboard level now. Dont see a rethink on number of berths, travel seats any time soon, but stranger things have happened ;-)

[Brian Kirby]

MRANDMRSWILLSON - 2013-12-03 8:19 AM

 

Can anyone help, please? In our search for our first motorhome we have come down to two - more or less identical in price, year, mileage, condition. One is an Autocruise Startrail, the other a Bessacar E560 35 Multijet. We're driving ourselves nuts between the two. Your opinions, please.

Jay

I'm re-quoting your post to make clearer what I'm answering.

 

Make sure you do as "judgemental" suggests and insist on a damp check, making particularly sure the floor is checked. If the dealer is a Swift group dealer he should be aware of where to look for damp in the floor, as there have been problems with this. If he is not, ask for details of the problem and where it arose on here, and then direct the dealer to check these areas. Make sure you get a copy of the test report, and keep it safe!

 

So far as I can determine, the E560 was in production from 2006 - 2010. Startrail seems to have been produced by Swift from 2008 - 2011. Early Swift Startrails seem to have been of variable quality, so look closely.

 

If the vans are older than 2010, check their records with Fiat/Peugeot (you'll need their VINs, and a Fiat/Peugeot Commercial dealership), to see if either has had anti-judder work done to their gearboxes. Not all were affected, so make sure you test drive both, and try reversing both on a hill. If either judders, vibrates or shakes when doing this, either look elsewhere, or insist the dealer gets the work carried out before buying. It is the chassis manufacturing date that is critical to this, not the converter's build date, so it is a bit difficult to be specific on when the reversing judder problem was resolved during production. This is equally true for any Ducato / Boxer based van.

 

The advice to get the vans weighed is sound. The E560 is quoted with a 350kg payload in 2010 (440kg in 2006, so something changed along the road!) which, IMO, is workable with care. Startrail is given as 309kg in 20011. Can't open the 2008 on Autocruise brochures. However, those payloads will be in ex-works condition, with no allowance for various options, "packs", awning, bike rack, extra leisure battery, etc etc. How much care is needed in loading will depend on how, and where, you intend using the van. If mainly summer use, with relatively short trips, the Bessacarr should be fine. However, if intending to travel around the continent, especially for longer periods (say 2 - 3 months or more) that include early spring/late autumn, you may find it a bit tight, and I'd suggest the Autocruise would be unworkable.

 

Can't find the gas locker capacity, for the Bessacarr, but a number of UK made vans can only take 6/7kg sized clyinders. Startrail says 2 x 7kg. If planning longer trips abroad, do be aware that 2 x 6/7kg, if travelling in the "shoulder" seasons, is unlikely to be sufficient, and 2 No continental cylinders of this capacity may not fit the locker.

 

If considering winter use of your van be aware that the fresh water tanks seem to be mounted below the chassis, so may freeze in severe weather.

[Guest peter]

JudgeMental - 2013-12-03 9:49 AM

 

Get it independently damp checked and weighed before getting carried away *-)

I was expecting you to say "forget both of them and buy German". :D

Personally I wouldn't consider either of them, as their british. :D

[Guest JudgeMental]

peter - 2013-12-03 6:49 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-12-03 9:49 AM

 

Get it independently damp checked and weighed before getting carried away *-)

I was expecting you to say "forget both of them and buy German". :D

Personally I wouldn't consider either of them, as their british. :D

 

Sorry Peter but have misplaced my reading glasses... Did you say British or rubbish? :-D

 

If peps can't see further than their umbilicus not really any of my business.....

[lennyhb]

peter - 2013-12-03 6:49 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-12-03 9:49 AM

 

Get it independently damp checked and weighed before getting carried away *-)

I was expecting you to say "forget both of them and buy German". :D

Personally I wouldn't consider either of them, as their british. :D

 

Why bother with a damp check if it's British you know the answer :D :D :D