Aimed at Rapido owners

[Corky 8]

Hi , I'm in need of help, I intend to fit a 120 watt solar panel to the roof of our Motorhome, this is a job I have done before, the roof of our Rapido is a mini chequered type plastic roof which if I tap on the roof it feels like it is not fixed to whatever is below the plastic  (delaminated) this is the same over the whole roof, I intend to use Silkaflex 521UV to fix the Solar panel feet to the roof but have stopped due to thinking if the top sheet of plastic is not fixed to anything below and just resting on a sheet of whatever.? the Solar panel will eventually be ripped off tearing the plastic roof. Has anyone  got a solar panel fitted to their M/H with Sealant only and not screwed or bolted. I have contacted  Wokingham Motorhomes sending them 2 emails with no reply to date, I have also sent an e mail to Rapido France. to ask the same question about the roof, I await a reply but though I would ask you chaps in the mean time.   Thanks for any replies.

[Overdrive]

On our Rapido the Solar panel is not fitted with sealant, and is not screwed or bolted through the roof, but hinges on the roof rails.

 

The mini chequered roof plastic is not fixed to the roof panels below, I know this from fitting a roof vent to our previous Rapido, so don't think you could fix panel by sealant alone.

 

Wokingham Rapido will answer eventually, but better if you follow up email with phone call.

 

Happy to mail some photos of the fixing of Solar panel to roof rails, if any use.

 

David

[Overdrive]

Duplicate post removed

 

David

[Corky 8]

Overdrive - 2013-12-07 7:52 PMOn our Rapido the Solar panel is not fitted with sealant, and is not screwed or bolted through the roof, but hinges on the roof rails.The mini chequered roof plastic is not fixed to the roof panels below, I know this from fitting a roof vent to our previous Rapido, so don't think you could fix panel by sealant alone.Wokingham Rapido will answer eventually, but better if you follow up email with phone call.Happy to mail some photos of the fixing of Solar panel to roof rails, if any use.David

David, Thank you very much your experience fitting a roof vent is the proof I needed I will send you a private message with my e mail address if you be so kind as to send the photos you mentioned, I think I may have to purchase some cross bars for the roof rails, to fit it the way I imagine you have it fitted, once again Thank you for a very Valid and swift response,  Dennis

[kevina]

I fitted my 80W panel only with sealant and it has been fine for 4 years /30,000 miles.

 

It is fitted directly behind a roof vent and the rear fixing is close to the back edge so the feet are bonded where there is less flex in the skin than in some locations. If I grab hold of the panel and tug it around it will pull the skin up a bit but driving it is shielded by the vent so the wind cannot get underneath it. I'm perfectly at ease with it.

 

photo attached.

 

Kev

[lennyhb]

What about fitting a semi-flexible panel a 100w one only weighs 2.8kg and only a few mm thick should easily be able to fit that with adhesive without problems.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Hello Corky, yes I'd go with that advice from Lenny, in the absence of any reply from Rapido, but don't worry your roof is not de-laminated, my Rapido is the same, as was an Elnagh before that, I believe its to allow for expansion and contraction. I can't advise specifically about fitting a solar panel directly to it though, perhaps just some fixing pads using Sikaflex, behind your Heki roof light which may if it is an issue help protect it from wind forces, then the panel to them ? I'd be a bit nervous of screws or bolts though.

 

In any event I cannot imagine your roof getting ripped off, but I'll let you do yours first. :D

[Pampam]

I've just had another solar panel fixed to my autotrail and the guy just used adhesive which they did before on my other van and it worked fine no drilling or screwing (famous last words) :) pp

[lennyhb]

It's not the fixing that is worrying him Pam it's the roof construction.

[Corky 8]

kevina - 2013-12-07 10:08 PMI fitted my 80W panel only with sealant and it has been fine for 4 years /30,000 miles.It is fitted directly behind a roof vent and the rear fixing is close to the back edge so the feet are bonded where there is less flex in the skin than in some locations. If I grab hold of the panel and tug it around it will pull the skin up a bit but driving it is shielded by the vent so the wind cannot get underneath it. I'm perfectly at ease with it.photo attached.Kev

Thanks Kev, I will look and see if I can get behind the helki roof vent ,but still not happy about movement in the top sheeting, may even use small S/S screws as well, Dave has cut a hole in the roof of his Rapido to fit a roof vent so I have asked him about thickness of materials below the top sheet plastic,  thanks a lot,   Dennis

[Corky 8]

lennyhb - 2013-12-08 12:38 AMWhat about fitting a semi-flexible panel a 100w one only weighs 2.8kg and only a few mm thick should easily be able to fit that with adhesive without problems.

Lenny I'm sorry I should have said I have already purchased my Solar Panel, I always use the same ones I get the complete kit which include mounting brackets/feet from Photonic Universe as they normally supply the Bosch branded ones

[Corky 8]

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-08 4:47 AMHello Corky, yes I'd go with that advice from Lenny, in the absence of any reply from Rapido, but don't worry your roof is not de-laminated, my Rapido is the same, as was an Elnagh before that, I believe its to allow for expansion and contraction. I can't advise specifically about fitting a solar panel directly to it though, perhaps just some fixing pads using Sikaflex, behind your Heki roof light which may if it is an issue help protect it from wind forces, then the panel to them ? I'd be a bit nervous of screws or bolts though. In any event I cannot imagine your roof getting ripped off, but I'll let you do yours first. :D

Thanks, I didn't mean to mislead with the Delamination remark I just used it as an example ,and I,m please to hear your Rapido is the same roof wise, I really trust the Silkaflex adhesive to hold the brackets down it was the flex in the plastic which worried me, as above if Dave comes up with the thicknesses of Materials below the flexi Plastic it will help me to decide to use Screws as well as Silkaflex or not as the case maybe,  Thank you .

[Corky 8]

Pampam - 2013-12-08 5:57 AMI've just had another solar panel fixed to my autotrail and the guy just used adhesive which they did before on my other van and it worked fine no drilling or screwing (famous last words) :) pp

Hi Pam and thanks for your input, I used Silkaflex Alone when I fitted my last Solar Panel to the roof of My Autotrail , but Autotrail use a bonded plastic to the roof insulation, which will keep (hopefully) in place when the feet of the solar Panel are adhered to the top.   Dennis

[mikejkay]

The comment about fitting a lightweight panel is misleading. The force generated by the wind will be proportional to the area of the panel. If anything, a heavier panel will be a good thing. Being downward the weight (force) will reduce the upward force due to wind pressure. It would be better to prevent the wind getting under the panel or at least fitting a wind deflector. Although a deflector at the front would obviously have no effect on pressure due to winds fom the sides or the rear.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Corky 8 - 2013-12-08 12:26 PM

Pampam - 2013-12-08 5:57 AMI've just had another solar panel fixed to my autotrail and the guy just used adhesive which they did before on my other van and it worked fine no drilling or screwing (famous last words) :) pp

Hi Pam and thanks for your input, I used Silkaflex Alone when I fitted my last Solar Panel to the roof of My Autotrail , but Autotrail use a bonded plastic to the roof insulation, which will keep (hopefully) in place when the feet of the solar Panel are adhered to the top.   Dennis

Dennis, not meaning to be pedantic, but the less holes the better as far as I'm concerned, add in to that the fact that you need to be very certain what you are screwing into beneath the plastic sheeting would also stress me out especially not knowing if a screw would hold if it's like some kind of polystyrene for example, I doubt the top skin will move anywhere if you just used Sikaflex 521, but like the old saying goes it's your funeral. ;-) but do let us know how it goes. ;-)

[kevina]

The "floating" top sheet is fibreglass and will be quite flexible, a strip of it would bend to something less than a 3ft radius before cracking. I used to manufacture fibreglass kayaks and I don't forsee the roof peeling off.

 

I seem to remember that the main roof panel is something like 0.8mm fibreglass bonded to 0.6mm aluminium bonded to blue Styrofoam.

 

I also wouldn't screw into it if at all avoidable, more holes.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Apparently it's an anti hail sheet, and having looked at mine just yesterday it it's glass fibre it certainly does not look or feel it, seems like a rubberised type of material, any way Corky maybe this post that I've found is confidence building for both of us. ;-)

 

"If it was JUST a floating roof skin then yes BUT there are numerous other items Clamping the skin tight, ie roof lights/windows etc, My last Satellite was fitted by none other than Rapido themselves at Mayenne as I had to have a replacement roof because in manufacture the mounting bracket which the bathroom door was hung on was not in the correct location so the door would float about and hang incorrectly so they decided to remove the roof and replace the unit as it would be easier, they of course had to refit everything onto the new one, which resulted in everything being Sikaflexed back, even the Solar panels and also a Glomex TV Antennae The only time they actually drilled the roof was for the Cable entry gland" ;-)

 

And this from a Rapido tech support bloke who is talking about a sat dish installation.

 

Normally if the surface where it is going to be fixed is cleaned & scoured and the bonding is done with the correct primer and correct grade of Sikaflex it should not present a problem. On some larger systems it may be necessary to use a spreader plate to increase the fixing area.

[Corky 8]

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-08 1:07 PM

Corky 8 - 2013-12-08 12:26 PM

Pampam - 2013-12-08 5:57 AMI've just had another solar panel fixed to my autotrail and the guy just used adhesive which they did before on my other van and it worked fine no drilling or screwing (famous last words) :) pp

Hi Pam and thanks for your input, I used Silkaflex Alone when I fitted my last Solar Panel to the roof of My Autotrail , but Autotrail use a bonded plastic to the roof insulation, which will keep (hopefully) in place when the feet of the solar Panel are adhered to the top.   Dennis

Dennis, not meaning to be pedantic, but the less holes the better as far as I'm concerned, add in to that the fact that you need to be very certain what you are screwing into beneath the plastic sheeting would also stress me out especially not knowing if a screw would hold if it's like some kind of polystyrene for example, I doubt the top skin will move anywhere if you just used Sikaflex 521, but like the old saying goes it's your funeral. ;-) but do let us know how it goes. ;-)

I'm from the same school as yourself regarding not making holes dept. but I'm also from the belt and braced corps, So I'm hoping Dave (Overdrive) can give me hope that the Material directly under the top sheet is thick enough to take a screw, after Kev, told me where his Panel is positioned I checked my layout and I can position my panel behind the Bedroom roof vent out of the main wind stream, I can await a reply from Rapido or Wokingham Motorhomes before taking a final decision, But I do Value your opinions and suggestion I Thank you for them ,

 

[lennyhb]

mikejkay - 2013-12-08 12:26 PM

 

The comment about fitting a lightweight panel is misleading. The force generated by the wind will be proportional to the area of the panel. If anything, a heavier panel will be a good thing. Being downward the weight (force) will reduce the upward force due to wind pressure. It would be better to prevent the wind getting under the panel or at least fitting a wind deflector. Although a deflector at the front would obviously have no effect on pressure due to winds fom the sides or the rear.

 

Semi-flexible panels are only a few mm thick you bond them direct to the roof so there is no air gap, that is why I suggested them, the weight saving is a bonus. Unfortunately Dennis has already brought his panel.

[tonyishuk]

 

Rapido @ Wokingham (bless'm) do not seem to have heard of the email age.

 

That said, when you get them on the phone (hint !), they are generally very helpful.

 

A lot of this type of work (solar panels, Satellite domes & Dishes etc are fitted by specialist sub contractors, so it may be worth looking locally. or another Rapido supplier nearer to you or get a recommendation for a fitter.

 

Rgds

[Brian Kirby]

Dennis, I think these type of roof panels must be allowed to expand freely, otherwise unforeseen stresses are liable to form, possibly followed by cracking. Apart from the "holes in the roof" argument, I therefore think screwing the roof sheet to its substrate via the solar panel supports may not be a good idea. Supporting the panel clear of the roof, by using roof bars as you suggested above, may be the best method in this case as it would leave the roof sheet to perform as intended.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

That seems to fly in the face of the manufactures advice, and indeed their own construction methods, but I see you do use the words "I think "rather than I know.

 

Having just acquired one myself with the same roof covering with a myriad of things attached on to it, and through it by Rapido it's hard to imagine how exactly how this roof skin works, especially if it is to move to any great degree, and other that seeing it described as an anti hail skin perhaps that's the top and bottom of it, perhaps Rapido will get back to Corky with a definitive answer, instead of all us armchair pundits speculating should he, shouldn't he, and how he should (!)

[Corky 8]

Thanks Tonishuk, I know what you mean about Wokingham Motors and I will phone them , I just thought  an email gives them chance to find out themselves then answer , sad to say there are no other Rapido agent within 100 mile of my location.

Brian as always you give good sound advice and normally I would adhere (no Pun intended) to what you say, but today when I got above the M/H roof and looked at all the fittings already cut into the roof top sheet, IE Helki roof light, satellite Dish , shower vent, toilet roof light, Bedroom roof light/vent, then the roof rails running three quarters the length of the M/H screwed down in three places each side, and finally the Extendable TV Aerial , there is not much of the roof left that can expand / contract . the roof rail fixings alone would restrict and expansion / contraction also all the holes cut through the top sheet  will have been seal with some form of sealant/ adhesive to make them water resistant which will also hold the top sheet  from moving , so you can see the Quandary I'm in.    David (overdrive) has let me know the roof is something like 2 to 3 inches made up of top sheet, tinfoil insulation, two or three layers of Ply then foam insulation ,final ceiling finish, I will phone Wokingham Motorhome tomorrow and seek their advice, If I can get hold of anyone,  I Thank you all for your input/advice. it is valued, I will let you know which way I go, Thanks again Dennis

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

"Brian as always you give good sound advice"

 

that will be music to his ears, as to why his advice is "sound" I'm at a loss to know, "sound based on what exactly, is he a specialist in leisure vehicle construction and all the diverse materials and their properties, especially when his "sound" advice conflicts with Rapido and what they do with their van roofs, does he even own a Rapido, or examined one of their roofs, but I expect he knows more than them though, he usually does, . ;-)

[Guest peter]

Naughty boy! Go and sit in the corner. :D