Reputations

[Colin Leake]

We've had two motorhomes from new a Rapido and our present AutoTrail which we've had for 3 seasons. Being pro British I'd like to say the AutoTrail is best but the truth is that both have been superb and very reliable. We changed to the AutoTrail because at the time we needed one with a decent garage under 7m and 3,500 Kg and would find it hard to better.

[Dave225]

My viewpoint on this is probably geometrically opposite to much of what has been written.

 

Firstly one has to look at the numbers. Hobby for example are the largest maker of leisure units, that is both caravans and motorhomes, in Europe so in general terms even if they have 5% bad press then a huge number of very satisfied customers are out there. My own caravan for example was built by the largest volume producer in Europe, unfortunately who went bust due to the Dutch stopping buying, and as such was bluntly built on a production line where all the fitments were mass produced by computers etc. Not necessarily what one might wish for, but at the end of the day it works. It was not a top of the range, in fact it was a cheapie, but the quality of the fittings was as good as any in the upper brackets. Possibly a similar reason why Ford are so dominant in cars.

 

Similarly most UK makers deal in smaller volumes so again 5% of complaints starts to get noticed. That does not necessarily mean one is better than the other. Again, for example Mercedes Benz has had for a number for years a very poor quality control, system and many of their products have been castigated under that category. Not everything German is perfect.

 

Another point to look at is the market the makers are aiming for. Most EU makers aim for a market that likes to spend most time outside, as the weather encourages that. Therefore the inside gets less use and by logic,, lasts longer. Equipment levels reflect this and the less equipment the less faults are likely. Most UK makers have to contend with a horrible climate where a lot of living is done inside, and ergo equipment and usage is higher and failure is more likely. These effects can be exaggerated if kids are part of the equation. One could also be unkind and suggest the nature of the owners has an effect. If the average bum is larger in the UK than Europe then cushions for example will take more of a beating, plus spending hours watching Corrie will have some effect no doubt.

 

Another point is the nature of the relative industries. Many EU makers supply outfits to the UK, the reverse is not so true as the costs are very high and again size matters. Therefore the average EU customer has a limited choice open to him while the UK customer actually has the better availability. Would the preferences outlined in some of the Posts be changed if for example there was a 25% import tax???

 

Another point is the base vehicle. Fiat have had their share of issues over the years from lousy gearboxes to water ingress and juddering. Renault have had their share of complaints mostly due to poor aftercare. These faults are not related to the actual maker of the leisure vehicle, so should not have any influence, but they do.

 

Now I am neither supporting or criticising EU motorhomes although I accept that some UK makers have had their heads proverbially ‘in the sand’ for many years. But then again they will argue that they are merely reflecting what their primary customer base wants. It is interesting how some have even supplied EU makes under a cloned name to offer options. I would personally not buy a UK caravan or motorhome but that is not due to quality, it is due to the fact that they aim for a market that does not include me. Wet weekends watching tv in Scarborough are not my scene but I accept you do need good internal space and equipment to handle it.

 

So, sorry i think bluntly this topic is a waste of time as it has no genuine answers.

 

[Guest peter]

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-16 6:33 PM

 

lennyhb - 2013-12-16 6:22 PM

 

Brian, I take it you are feeling very smug now having brought a Hymer. :D :D :D

 

If this is not a smug face, I don't know what is.

 

Give it a rest FFS it's getting very boring. What's Brian done to you personally anyway?.

[Hawcara]

Our first motorhome is a Chausson and 'so far' we have had no warranty issues with Chausson. They replaced a cracked sink, door holder and loose light fitting under warranty.

The van has been very good, probably down to the dealership. The only real hassle has been the diesel heater, which failed out of warranty and was an expensive repair. The problem with these things is that when the go wrong they cannot be so easily fixed as a truma heater. They are more likely suited to Hgv cabs than motorhomes in my opinion, but space in the van is limited so one can sort of see the dilemma (not sure of spelling there).

:-D

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

"So, sorry i think bluntly this topic is a waste of time as it has no genuine answers"

 

Ditto. ;-)

[nowtelse2do]

pelmetman - 2013-12-16 7:36 PM

 

nowtelse2do - 2013-12-16 7:33 PM

 

Had two used Auto Sleepers over a 10yr period, both on a Ford base and used them as everyday transport. Also done over 70.000ml in them plus 2 house removals. Costs, whatever.....it's mine and my wifes life. Scheduled servicing (and a bit more)

 

Dave

 

2 eh Dave?......................You've always struck me as someone who preferred a Tranny ;-).......

 

Wouldn't have a mk6. Mk 4 & 5 suited me, bit noisy but not when i turned the hearing aids down :D

 

Dave

[Will86]

1foot, a bit like my wood burning comments on the other channel.

 

And why do some posters like to advertise themselves with a personal picture all the time?

[Mel B]

Hawcara - 2013-12-16 8:01 PM

 

Our first motorhome is a Chausson and 'so far' we have had no warranty issues with Chausson. They replaced a cracked sink, door holder and loose light fitting under warranty.

The van has been very good, probably down to the dealership. The only real hassle has been the diesel heater, which failed out of warranty and was an expensive repair. The problem with these things is that when the go wrong they cannot be so easily fixed as a truma heater. They are more likely suited to Hgv cabs than motorhomes in my opinion, but space in the van is limited so one can sort of see the dilemma (not sure of spelling there).

:-D

 

Actually that's the one thing I didn't like! When we had our Flash 04 our diesel space heating didn't work properly but that was down to a fault with the temperature control dial (a faulty batch apparently) however it appeared to need more mollycoddling than a combi Truma (regular running for example) which I didn't think was a good thing to have to do. As the water heating only Truma is located in the very large void under the wardrobe I could never understand why they didn't fit a Truma combi in the first place and negate the need for a separate space heater! I really missed my 'free' hot water due to having separate appliances for water heating and space heating. :-S

[Brian Kirby]

Dave225 - 2013-12-16 7:57 PM..........So, sorry i think bluntly this topic is a waste of time as it has no genuine answers.

It seems folk on here value brevity, so with my apologies, Dave, I think flawed analysis has resulted in a flawed conclusion.

[granddad]

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-16 6:33 PM

 

lennyhb - 2013-12-16 6:22 PM

 

Brian, I take it you are feeling very smug now having brought a Hymer. :D :D :D

 

If this is not a smug face, I don't know what is.

 

 

THIS is one brain of a man GT

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

peter - 2013-12-16 7:58 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-16 6:33 PM

 

lennyhb - 2013-12-16 6:22 PM

 

Brian, I take it you are feeling very smug now having brought a Hymer. :D :D :D

 

If this is not a smug face, I don't know what is.

 

Give it a rest FFS it's getting very boring. What's Brian done to you personally anyway?.

 

Point taken, so I won't bore you with the details either. ;-)

[bolero boy]

Hymer have hade quite few positive mentions during this thread, similarly, there have been some concerns about Fiat base vehicles.....?

Putting those two points together, perhaps this latest offering from the German giant might appeal?

Came across this on the German version of the web site, does not appear (yet) on the English part of the site.

The vehicle is only 2.22m wide, same as the Exsis-i and Exsis-t models.

http://www.hymer.com/de/modelle/teilintegrierte/hymer-ml-t/uebersicht.html#.UrAQ6csgGSM

[lennyhb]

That's interesting Chris, very unusual to release new models at this time of year it wasn't at Düsseldorf or the Brussels show, nor in the brochures.

It's the same as an Exsis-T but on a Merc, just under 65000€, 8000€ dearer than on the Fiat., makes it expensive for the level of internal trim. Would you really want a CB on a Merc? Rear wheel drive is nice but Merc vans suffer from the tin worm where as Fiat galvanize all the important bits.

Probably never will appear in the UK price list, Hymer only import a selection of models to the UK, for example Exsis-i, ten models in the range only four on the UK price list.

[rupert123]

lennyhb - 2013-12-17 10:13 AM

 

That's interesting Chris, very unusual to release new models at this time of year it wasn't at Düsseldorf or the Brussels show, nor in the brochures.

It's the same as an Exsis-T but on a Merc, just under 65000€, 8000€ dearer than on the Fiat., makes it expensive for the level of internal trim. Would you really want a CB on a Merc? Rear wheel drive is nice but Merc vans suffer from the tin worm where as Fiat galvanize all the important bits.

Probably never will appear in the UK price list, Hymer only import a selection of models to the UK, for example Exsis-i, ten models in the range only four on the UK price list.

Interesting this one but Mercs chassis rust problems well known within the motor trade which it is why, with me, it has always been a bit of a mystery why the few who own them think they are so great, especially when coupled to there rather old fashioned and not very good engines. Perhaps it is badge engineering again as there cars to are living on past reputations, just take a look at things like the JD power survey. Why would you pay thousands more for a base that is in every way inferior to the latest Fiat ones. Even the badge value does not mean much on a motorhome as few take any notice of it. The RWD bit mystifies me Lenny, why do you think it is better. It compromises the floor space and adds to the drive system. OK the traction on a M/H is a little better with a RWD but so what, unless you make a habit of getting stuck in muddy fields.

[lennyhb]

You know I like muddy fields Henry. :D :D :D

[bolero boy]

lennyhb - 2013-12-17 10:13 AM

 

That's interesting Chris, very unusual to release new models at this time of year it wasn't at Düsseldorf or the Brussels show, nor in the brochures.

It's the same as an Exsis-T but on a Merc, just under 65000€, 8000€ dearer than on the Fiat., makes it expensive for the level of internal trim. Would you really want a CB on a Merc? Rear wheel drive is nice but Merc vans suffer from the tin worm where as Fiat galvanize all the important bits.

Probably never will appear in the UK price list, Hymer only import a selection of models to the UK, for example Exsis-i, ten models in the range only four on the UK price list.

Just to hightlight the rate of change in this business, there are now 11 models of Exsis-i on the DE site (just added the 564) and now 7 of these appear on the GB site.

Any of the 11 can be brought into the UK by your dealer on request.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I won't pretend to know much about the difference of base vans, only ever having Fiats, but I'm always struck that with the exception of M/home vehicles courier companies both here and in France seem to exclusively use Sprinters, do they know something we don't, and another thing is, have they all got speed control on them that forces the drivers of them to do a minimum of 80mph. ;-)

[malc d]

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-17 11:10 AM

 

I won't pretend to know much about the difference of base vans, only ever having Fiats, but I'm always struck that with the exception of M/home vehicles courier companies both here and in France seem to exclusively use Sprinters, do they know something we don't, ..................................

 

 

Yes - they know how big their discount is for fleet sales.

 

 

;-)

[lennyhb]

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-17 11:10 AM

 

I won't pretend to know much about the difference of base vans, only ever having Fiats, but I'm always struck that with the exception of M/home vehicles courier companies both here and in France seem to exclusively use Sprinters, do they know something we don't, and another thing is, have they all got speed control on them that forces the drivers of them to do a minimum of 80mph. ;-)

 

Sprinters are very good for what they are designed for - thrash the boll***ks out of them for 3 years then throw away. :D

I have a nephew who used to work for a carrier they used to encourage the drivers to try & blow the engines when they were coming up for 3 years old so they got a new engine under warranty, as otherwise they knew they would be a liability. (lol)

[lennyhb]

bolero boy - 2013-12-17 11:06 AM

 

lennyhb - 2013-12-17 10:13 AM

 

That's interesting Chris, very unusual to release new models at this time of year it wasn't at Düsseldorf or the Brussels show, nor in the brochures.

It's the same as an Exsis-T but on a Merc, just under 65000€, 8000€ dearer than on the Fiat., makes it expensive for the level of internal trim. Would you really want a CB on a Merc? Rear wheel drive is nice but Merc vans suffer from the tin worm where as Fiat galvanize all the important bits.

Probably never will appear in the UK price list, Hymer only import a selection of models to the UK, for example Exsis-i, ten models in the range only four on the UK price list.

Just to hightlight the rate of change in this business, there are now 11 models of Exsis-i on the DE site (just added the 564) and now 7 of these appear on the GB site.

Any of the 11 can be brought into the UK by your dealer on request.

 

Very unusual all this change just after Düsseldorf looks like radical re-thinking by Hymer. Web site has only changed in the last week I noticed another model of B Class SL added and all of the Starlight range (Similar to Exsis i but on a Merc) dropped. Hymercar reduced to 5 models down from 10 but each model has 5 or 6 variations, so I think there are far more versions now!.

Not sure what else has changed not that familiar with other models.

I assume they have reacted to customer feedback after the major shows to make sure they stay ahead of the game as they have the likes of Carthago coming down market grabbing some of their business.

 

Any of the 11 can be brought into the UK by your dealer on request

At silly UK prices. :D

[rupert123]

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-17 11:10 AM

 

I won't pretend to know much about the difference of base vans, only ever having Fiats, but I'm always struck that with the exception of M/home vehicles courier companies both here and in France seem to exclusively use Sprinters, do they know something we don't, and another thing is, have they all got speed control on them that forces the drivers of them to do a minimum of 80mph. ;-)

In France and Italy they are certainly not the most popular van. In the UK it is about two things, as has been said the fleet contract price is very good and they have a good service base, they need it. Fiat commercial unfortunately do not have this service base, although it is improving. The transit is still the UK most popular van, this is because price and service base are both very good, nothing to do with quality, but it rarely is. If quality and customer satisfaction was the only thing we bought on we would all be driving Lexus or Skoda. If quantity of sales was any sign of being best we would all be driving a Swift built van in the UK. Vans, cars and motorhome purchases are rarely done on logic alone.

[pepe63xnotuse]

There has been a marked increase in Fiat(or Peugeot,not sure which?) commercial vehicles in our area over the last couple of years and the bulk of council vans have also been swapped for X250s,with many of the local authority school and disability mini buses also switched from large Ivecos, to coach built tandem axle X250s...

 

Likewise most of the newer ambulances are now X250s..and not just the "walking wounded" vehicles either(..although they've still retained some twin wheel Mercs and a few Renaults).

[Corky 8]

When I owned a 2 month old Burstner with a (spit) Fiat engine which was in the Main Agents waiting for a AGR valve to come from Spain, I was in a Lousy Mood and asked why on earth do Burstner build on a *//"+¬**  Fiat chassis I was told do you know the price the Converters get a chassis /cab. chassis/ cowling for, less than you would pay for a second hand Skoda, which I must admit made me laugh. I doubt they would get that kind of deal from Mercedes. and as I recall when Mercedes brought out the very first Sprinter engined vehicle , Autotrial used a lot of them they were called the "Bulletproof engine " which they have proved to be , Many Merc 307/308/309 are still going in one form or another.pre runner to Modern Mercedes Sprinter's just further developed.

[Billggski]

A reputation take years to build up and one persistent moaner, especially using a forum(or two) can ruin it.

Luckily we don't have a Clarkson to tell us what to think. I know folk who have bought expensive cars because of his reviews, and then found him slagging them off a week later.

[Brock]

My 05 plated Hymer 544 was brilliant and justified Hymer's reputation. Hymer UK in Preston knew the model inside out.

 

My current B504 has a number of build issues which, based on my experience, would put Hymer down the quality list. The dealer is trying to sort them out but I suspect lacks the experience. From the technician I spoke to at my dealer, I opine that a number of common themes are developing with the 2011/2013 models. The light plinths fall out when on the road [mine is over the kitchen unit, some have them in the rear bed] because they are held in with a plastic clip and pressure from the units either side; the coach style wing mirrors rattle and are difficult to adjust correctly; side windows at the front rattle - dealer still trying to sort his out. [also affects Artos].

 

I've also got a particular problem with my drop down bed that does not come down level, about 4" higher on the driver side - dealer does not know how to fix this despite best efforts. The window catches and blinds seem flimsier. When the passenger lowers the sun blind to keep the sun out of their eyes, the driver cannot see the coach mirror. The dealer fixed the bouncing hob [the wrong size screws had been used to hold it in place]. I've screwed in a few other minor bits and bobs.

 

There are many positives about the van so it's not a disaster. However, if quality is about meeting customer expectations, both Hymer and the dealer have some work to do in my eyes. I've stopped recommending the brand to others. Fiat can rest on its laurels because that part is performing better than I expected. I'm confident the dealer will get better with experience.