Reputations

[rupert123]

Brock - 2013-12-17 3:53 PM

 

My 05 plated Hymer 544 was brilliant and justified Hymer's reputation. Hymer UK in Preston knew the model inside out.

 

My current B504 has a number of build issues which, based on my experience, would put Hymer down the quality list. The dealer is trying to sort them out but I suspect lacks the experience. From the technician I spoke to at my dealer, I opine that a number of common themes are developing with the 2011/2013 models. The light plinths fall out when on the road [mine is over the kitchen unit, some have them in the rear bed] because they are held in with a plastic clip and pressure from the units either side; the coach style wing mirrors rattle and are difficult to adjust correctly; side windows at the front rattle - dealer still trying to sort his out. [also affects Artos].

 

I've also got a particular problem with my drop down bed that does not come down level, about 4" higher on the driver side - dealer does not know how to fix this despite best efforts. The window catches and blinds seem flimsier. When the passenger lowers the sun blind to keep the sun out of their eyes, the driver cannot see the coach mirror. The dealer fixed the bouncing hob [the wrong size screws had been used to hold it in place]. I've screwed in a few other minor bits and bobs.

 

There are many positives about the van so it's not a disaster. However, if quality is about meeting customer expectations, both Hymer and the dealer have some work to do in my eyes. I've stopped recommending the brand to others. Fiat can rest on its laurels because that part is performing better than I expected. I'm confident the dealer will get better with experience.

 

 

Oh dear, hope Lenny has not read this he thinks they are infallible. Sorry to hear about your problems though.

[rupert123]

Corky 8 - 2013-12-17 1:34 PM

 

When I owned a 2 month old Burstner with a (spit) Fiat engine which was in the Main Agents waiting for a AGR valve to come from Spain, I was in a Lousy Mood and asked why on earth do Burstner build on a *//"+¬**  Fiat chassis I was told do you know the price the Converters get a chassis /cab. chassis/ cowling for, less than you would pay for a second hand Skoda, which I must admit made me laugh. I doubt they would get that kind of deal from Mercedes. and as I recall when Mercedes brought out the very first Sprinter engined vehicle , Autotrial used a lot of them they were called the "Bulletproof engine " which they have proved to be , Many Merc 307/308/309 are still going in one form or another.pre runner to Modern Mercedes Sprinter's just further developed.

This sort of post is just the sort of stuff that people hear and take for granted is true. Sorry Corky your dealer did not know what they were talking about. The reason people use Fiat is that they were the only people who made a real effort to provide a proper chassis for motorhome use and it was not cheap. I have no current figures as have been out of the motor trade for over three years now but doubt things have changed much. You are correct about Mercedes being more expensive and it is charged for but most will not pay the extra, why would you. The Mercedes chassis is beyond any doubt inferior, the engine is open to argument and saying the old Merc engines are still going means nothing, it does not follow the new ones are the same. That Fiat had a problem in 2007 with reverse gear is true but the take up on getting the box fixed was as far as I am aware pretty small, most people were not even aware of it and had no problems. This is past history, we are surely talking current vans now, or at least not the dim and distant past. You have a Merc and are happy with it which is great but thousands more have Fiats and are happy with them. Sure Fiats have more problems reported with M/H,s but as their are thousands of them to every one Merc you can surely work out why. I am still not sure why anyone would pay thousands more for a Merc when their is not a bit of concrete engineering evidence it is in any way better.

[Billggski]

My truck driving friends say the mercedes trucks and vans are similar to others, not thought to be a premium marque like the cars are, in the 2000-4 period when they amalgamated with Chrysler the cars were poor, my wife's slk had endless corrosion issues that they eventually washed their hands of. Their 30 year bodywork warranty was capped at eight years.

An apocryphal story is that Chrysler engineers came in to find out if MB were paying too much for their seats as they were so much more than Chrysler's, the accountants report said that it was Chrysler who were paying too much for theirs.

[Guest pelmetman]

Built in obsolescent is partly what my apparently annoying metaphor 8-)..........."Progress eh?"........is mean't to highlight ;-).................

 

ie....... progress within the motor industry is little more than style over substance *-) ............yes they are little bit quicker........and slightly more fuel efficient............but more reliable?.............and as for the chances of the latest high tech gizmo fitted state of the art vehicle, out living my camper is debatable :D............

 

But never mind........... they're doing wonders for my appreciation (lol) (lol) (lol)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

You sound as if you've got an older vehicle.............just how old is it again, and what make ? :-S

 

You and Judgemental have certain things in common you know. ;-)

[Rayjsj]

pelmetman - 2013-12-17 8:17 PM

 

Built in obsolescent is partly what my apparently annoying metaphor 8-)..........."Progress eh?"........is mean't to highlight ;-).................

 

ie....... progress within the motor industry is little more than style over substance *-) ............yes they are little bit quicker........and slightly more fuel efficient............but more reliable?.............and as for the chances of the latest high tech gizmo fitted state of the art vehicle, out living my camper is debatable :D............

 

But never mind........... they're doing wonders for my appreciation (lol) (lol) (lol)

 

 

You are forgetting, ever changing Engine emission Targets, which are now becoming a reliability problem.

I might be upset if my van breaks down because of REAL problem, but to find that it has 'Stopped or is Limping home' because a sensor has failed, and that sensor does NOTHING to contribute to the actual running of the vehicle, makes me Incandescant with rage. I say 'Can it be removed or bypassed and still run ' if the answer is 'yes' then I say 'Do it' , and tell me how to 'Re-Engage it' for the MOT.

That 'side' of modern vehicles, makes me 'hanker back' to my old Talbot Autosleeper, even if the cab was rusting as you watched it.

I can see the days when people ask 'have you got any Pre-Euro X engined vans ' the new ones are too tempramental. Ray

[Corky 8]

rupert123 - 2013-12-17 6:05 PM

Corky 8 - 2013-12-17 1:34 PMWhen I owned a 2 month old Burstner with a (spit) Fiat engine which was in the Main Agents waiting for a AGR valve to come from Spain, I was in a Lousy Mood and asked why on earth do Burstner build on a *//"+¬**  Fiat chassis I was told do you know the price the Converters get a chassis /cab. chassis/ cowling for, less than you would pay for a second hand Skoda, which I must admit made me laugh. I doubt they would get that kind of deal from Mercedes. and as I recall when Mercedes brought out the very first Sprinter engined vehicle , Autotrial used a lot of them they were called the "Bulletproof engine " which they have proved to be , Many Merc 307/308/309 are still going in one form or another.pre runner to Modern Mercedes Sprinter's just further developed.

This sort of post is just the sort of stuff that people hear and take for granted is true. Sorry Corky your dealer did not know what they were talking about. The reason people use Fiat is that they were the only people who made a real effort to provide a proper chassis for motorhome use and it was not cheap. I have no current figures as have been out of the motor trade for over three years now but doubt things have changed much. You are correct about Mercedes being more expensive and it is charged for but most will not pay the extra, why would you. The Mercedes chassis is beyond any doubt inferior, the engine is open to argument and saying the old Merc engines are still going means nothing, it does not follow the new ones are the same. That Fiat had a problem in 2007 with reverse gear is true but the take up on getting the box fixed was as far as I am aware pretty small, most people were not even aware of it and had no problems. This is past history, we are surely talking current vans now, or at least not the dim and distant past. You have a Merc and are happy with it which is great but thousands more have Fiats and are happy with them. Sure Fiats have more problems reported with M/H,s but as their are thousands of them to every one Merc you can surely work out why. I am still not sure why anyone would pay thousands more for a Merc when their is not a bit of concrete engineering evidence it is in any way better.

I'm not going to brandish word with you, for a large part of my working life was  spent bent over one engine or another, as for your statement about the take up on the Modification for the Fiat gearbox being small, I think your way off the mark if you care to look back through the search facility on the forum ,I was one who took up the fix after a long drawn out denial by Fiat,until Andy Stotherts got his teeth into them. I owned a 2008 Fiat and thought it was good until the troubles I had with the Fiat side on a brand new Developed for the Motorhome Industry Fiat, do your home work and search Fiat Faults, just start with Scuttle. when the woes started. that's the Last I will say o the subject. 

[Guest pelmetman]

Rayjsj - 2013-12-17 8:49 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-12-17 8:17 PM

 

Built in obsolescent is partly what my apparently annoying metaphor 8-)..........."Progress eh?"........is mean't to highlight ;-).................

 

ie....... progress within the motor industry is little more than style over substance *-) ............yes they are little bit quicker........and slightly more fuel efficient............but more reliable?.............and as for the chances of the latest high tech gizmo fitted state of the art vehicle, out living my camper is debatable :D............

 

But never mind........... they're doing wonders for my appreciation (lol) (lol) (lol)

 

 

You are forgetting, ever changing Engine emission Targets, which are now becoming a reliability problem.

I might be upset if my van breaks down because of REAL problem, but to find that it has 'Stopped or is Limping home' because a sensor has failed, and that sensor does NOTHING to contribute to the actual running of the vehicle, makes me Incandescant with rage. I say 'Can it be removed or bypassed and still run ' if the answer is 'yes' then I say 'Do it' , and tell me how to 'Re-Engage it' for the MOT.

That 'side' of modern vehicles, makes me 'hanker back' to my old Talbot Autosleeper, even if the cab was rusting as you watched it.

I can see the days when people ask 'have you got any Pre-Euro X engined vans ' the new ones are too tempramental. Ray

 

Don't you see........ that's all part of the great GREEN con being foisted on Joe public *-)...............all these so called improvements are to do with vehicles being more environmentally friendly 8-)....................but if these new vehicles only have a shelf life of 10 years because they become uneconomic to repair............then how the hell can they be environmentally friendly?...............as making a new one ain't going to do bugger all for the environment (lol) (lol) ....................

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

What was the shelf life of an Austin Maxi, or a Ford Cortina, , ah happy days, spending most weekends adjusting the tappets, or the points gap,new brushes in the starter motor, just to be able to get to work the next week, and not to mention all the P38, and P40 progress eh,

[Will86]

Which Motorhome? I look & listen and make a judgement, it was a Merc Rapido (2006) It may be different another time. Passion does not enter the equation.

[bolero boy]

Will85 - 2013-12-17 11:26 PM

 

Which Motorhome? I look & listen and make a judgement, it was a Merc Rapido (2006) It may be different another time. Passion does not enter the equation.

Will, "which motorhome" what? ;-)

Are you saying that the Merc got some award in 2006? Yes, seven years ago tho I'm sure it was (and is) a good van, undoubtedly an A class, 9M series possibly.

[Guest pelmetman]

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-17 10:19 PM

 

What was the shelf life of an Austin Maxi, or a Ford Cortina, , ah happy days, spending most weekends adjusting the tappets, or the points gap,new brushes in the starter motor, just to be able to get to work the next week, and not to mention all the P38, and P40 progress eh,

 

Fair comment, but you can repair a Maxi or Cortina with a hammer to get it through the MOT ;-)................Will you be able to do that with today's vans?...............bearing in mind the new stricter MOT that requires all warning lights to operate as intended...............and if the £5 microchip that operates the sea belt warning light, is no longer available?................what then? 8-)....................

[Will86]

I meant of course which M/H do I choose, not Which magazine.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

pelmetman - 2013-12-18 9:01 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-17 10:19 PM

 

What was the shelf life of an Austin Maxi, or a Ford Cortina, , ah happy days, spending most weekends adjusting the tappets, or the points gap,new brushes in the starter motor, just to be able to get to work the next week, and not to mention all the P38, and P40 progress eh,

 

Fair comment, but you can repair a Maxi or Cortina with a hammer to get it through the MOT ;-)................Will you be able to do that with today's vans?...............bearing in mind the new stricter MOT that requires all warning lights to operate as intended...............and if the £5 microchip that operates the sea belt warning light, is no longer available?................what then? 8-)....................

 

With respect Dave I think you are missing a few points here, a Black and White TV would allow you to still watch TV, a wash tub with a mangle for your washing, and a hammer and P38 for a Cortina, the thing is for all the points that you raise, there are counter arguments, and the majority of us don't want to be stuck in the past, despite what you may say to the contrary, whilst modern vehicles may have a few issues, and issues some of which that I share, they are simply light years better than the old crap of yesteryear. ;-)

 

I've just bought a ( new for me ) Rapido, but would I have liked a brand new x250 one, you bet your life.

[Guest pelmetman]

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-18 9:50 AM

 

I've just bought a ( new for me ) Rapido, but would I have liked a brand new x250 one, you bet your life.

 

Which is fine if you have the wherewithal to keep swapping vans ;-).............but will that be the case for the next generation of campervanisters?.............only this week I noticed in the news that kids from the 60 & 70's can expect to be poorer than their parents 8-)...................

 

It'll be a sad day if this hobby becomes elitist...............but I fear the sighs are already there *-)..................

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

pelmetman - 2013-12-18 10:39 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-18 9:50 AM

 

I've just bought a ( new for me ) Rapido, but would I have liked a brand new x250 one, you bet your life.

 

Which is fine if you have the wherewithal to keep swapping vans ;-).............but will that be the case for the next generation of campervanisters?.............only this week I noticed in the news that kids from the 60 & 70's can expect to be poorer than their parents 8-)...................

 

It'll be a sad day if this hobby becomes elitist...............but I fear the sighs are already there *-)..................

 

Dave I'm far from elitist, in fact if you knew me elitist would be the last thing you'd accuse me of, worked in manual jobs since I left school at 15, worked right up to 65, and get by now on a very small ( by most standards ) income, swapping my van cost me my IH, owned for four years, and 5k, which was hard saved from when I was in work ( there goes my coffin money ) but in my dotage that is my only bit of luxury, I've put up with old crap all my life, so I think I deserve an 8 years old "new van" as it will almost certainly be my last. ;-)

[rupert123]

Corky 8 - 2013-12-17 8:56 PM

rupert123 - 2013-12-17 6:05 PM

Corky 8 - 2013-12-17 1:34 PMWhen I owned a 2 month old Burstner with a (spit) Fiat engine which was in the Main Agents waiting for a AGR valve to come from Spain, I was in a Lousy Mood and asked why on earth do Burstner build on a *//"+¬**  Fiat chassis I was told do you know the price the Converters get a chassis /cab. chassis/ cowling for, less than you would pay for a second hand Skoda, which I must admit made me laugh. I doubt they would get that kind of deal from Mercedes. and as I recall when Mercedes brought out the very first Sprinter engined vehicle , Autotrial used a lot of them they were called the "Bulletproof engine " which they have proved to be , Many Merc 307/308/309 are still going in one form or another.pre runner to Modern Mercedes Sprinter's just further developed.

This sort of post is just the sort of stuff that people hear and take for granted is true. Sorry Corky your dealer did not know what they were talking about. The reason people use Fiat is that they were the only people who made a real effort to provide a proper chassis for motorhome use and it was not cheap. I have no current figures as have been out of the motor trade for over three years now but doubt things have changed much. You are correct about Mercedes being more expensive and it is charged for but most will not pay the extra, why would you. The Mercedes chassis is beyond any doubt inferior, the engine is open to argument and saying the old Merc engines are still going means nothing, it does not follow the new ones are the same. That Fiat had a problem in 2007 with reverse gear is true but the take up on getting the box fixed was as far as I am aware pretty small, most people were not even aware of it and had no problems. This is past history, we are surely talking current vans now, or at least not the dim and distant past. You have a Merc and are happy with it which is great but thousands more have Fiats and are happy with them. Sure Fiats have more problems reported with M/H,s but as their are thousands of them to every one Merc you can surely work out why. I am still not sure why anyone would pay thousands more for a Merc when their is not a bit of concrete engineering evidence it is in any way better.

I'm not going to brandish word with you, for a large part of my working life was  spent bent over one engine or another, as for your statement about the take up on the Modification for the Fiat gearbox being small, I think your way off the mark if you care to look back through the search facility on the forum ,I was one who took up the fix after a long drawn out denial by Fiat,until Andy Stotherts got his teeth into them. I owned a 2008 Fiat and thought it was good until the troubles I had with the Fiat side on a brand new Developed for the Motorhome Industry Fiat, do your home work and search Fiat Faults, just start with Scuttle. when the woes started. that's the Last I will say o the subject. 

Fair enough, in other words you can give no reason to say my statements are not correct, which they are. I have not spent my life with head stuck under a bonnet but a good few years have been involved with the buying and selling of new and used vehicles of all types. The Fiat gearbox take up was indeed small and if you care to check Mercedes have had just as many faults. I have had a lot of conversations with Andy on this and he still has his Fiat based van. He was the prime mover on getting a fix but the numbers involved were in the hundreds within the UK, so a pretty small take up for the motor industry. If you take a proper look at this forum and count up the number with problems it is again pretty small. It is unfortunate if you have problems with any new vehicle and it will cloud your judgement but I am trying to look at this from a wide viewpoint not a single incident but Mercedes the best van, this is laughable.

[Guest Had Enough]

I can't afford to buy a new motorhome, or even a fairly recent second-hand one, so I shall come on here every day boring you all to death about the merits of twenty-year-old relics that need more care and attention than any Cuban's ancient Chevrolet.

 

If I won a million pounds on the lottery tomorrow I still wouldn't buy a new motorhome or a new car, I'd give it all to charity and carry on using my smoky old bangers! Honestly, I really would. (lol) (lol) (lol)

 

No, I would, really! ;-)

 

 

[Corky 8]

Had Enough - 2013-12-18 11:33 AMI can't afford to buy a new motorhome, or even a fairly recent second-hand one, so I shall come on here every day boring you all to death about the merits of twenty-year-old relics that need more care and attention than any Cuban's ancient Chevrolet.If I won a million pounds on the lottery tomorrow I still wouldn't buy a new motorhome or a new car, I'd give it all to charity and carry on using my smoky old bangers! Honestly, I really would. (lol) (lol) (lol) No, I would, really! ;-)

Had Enough, That's Brilliant, If you are happy with what you have then your better off than most of us, I though I had the (I wont say Perfect as nothing in life is Perfect) right Motorhome right layout right engine, till the long term making the bed up taking it down took its toll on my already worn Back, it was time to move to a fixed bed, that done I hope I can stick with this one till the end, My Brother has a 1989 Autotrail Apache  on a 208D Merc which he thinks is the bees knees , and he is as happy as Larry with it He wouldn't part with it for the world , Happiness comes in all shapes and sizes, and I hope you do win the Lottery, Safe Journeys   Dennis

[pepe63xnotuse]

Corky(Dennis?),I think you may've slightly misinterpreted H.E's post.

He(Had Enough) is supposedly not short of a bob or two...and I think you'll find he was in fact having a dig at Dave/Pelmetman's penchant for the "older" motorhome. ;-)

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Quite so, I've had older, classic, and clapped out most of my life............problem was I couldn't work out which was which. :D

[Overdrive]

I'm glad to see Rapido up there too!

 

"This thread has got me wondering .....................how many campers does Mr & Mrs Average buy in their lifetime ? ................As it appears to be quite a few"

 

Looking at our personal list todate:

2 Devons, 1 Danbury, 2 Autosleepers, 1 Holdsworth, 1 Mobilvetta, 1 Chausson & 2 Rapidos

and we are not finished yet!

 

Of these I think the reputation of Rapido and Autosleeper well deserved. I've no personal experience of a Hymer, as we have never found the size or a layout to our liking.

[Corky 8]

pepe63 - 2013-12-18 1:01 PMCorky(Dennis?),I think you may've slightly misinterpreted H.E's post.He(Had Enough) is supposedly not short of a bob or two...and I think you'll find he was in fact having a dig at Dave/Pelmetman's penchant for the "older" motorhome. ;-)

Thanks Pepe63, I tend to take things as stated, and don't like anyone being belittled ,  as the saying goes "Don't look down on anyone unless your helping them up",  Dennis

[Guest pelmetman]

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-18 11:09 AM

 

Dave I'm far from elitist, in fact if you knew me elitist would be the last thing you'd accuse me of, worked in manual jobs since I left school at 15, worked right up to 65, and get by now on a very small ( by most standards ) income, swapping my van cost me my IH, owned for four years, and 5k, which was hard saved from when I was in work ( there goes my coffin money ) but in my dotage that is my only bit of luxury, I've put up with old crap all my life, so I think I deserve an 8 years old "new van" as it will almost certainly be my last. ;-)

 

I wasn't implying that you're are elitist Mike................Its just an observation of our hobby based on 20 odd years experience ;-)..................what I mean't to say was..... the SIGNS are already there .........by which I mean campers are now being marketed as aspirational vehicles............so it follows that they will only be affordable for the wealthy if the predictions that the next generation of would be motorhomers will be poorer than todays :-| .................add to that mix the complexity of todays generation of commercial vehicle, the chances of them being economical to repair once over 10 years old is debatable ;-)...........for example my brother has recently had to scrap a 5 year old Renault van, as a problem with the auto box made it uneconomic to repair 8-).........

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Had Enough - 2013-12-18 11:33 AM

 

I can't afford to buy a new motorhome, or even a fairly recent second-hand one, so I shall come on here every day boring you all to death about the merits of twenty-year-old relics that need more care and attention than any Cuban's ancient Chevrolet.

 

If I won a million pounds on the lottery tomorrow I still wouldn't buy a new motorhome or a new car, I'd give it all to charity and carry on using my smoky old bangers! Honestly, I really would. (lol) (lol) (lol)

 

No, I would, really! ;-)

 

 

Your right Frank.................I've just had to replace the rear seals on my old banger of a camper.........not only that but the rear wheel bearing as well 8-)................

 

The leaking seal was picked up at Horaces MOT............and when my mechanic stripped it down he found the bearing badly worn :-S.............but regular readers of my drivel will recall my wheel nut saga of a few years back *-)................so it appears my lose nuts did more damage than we thought, as it was that wheel bearing that was shot................BUT......more importantly the bits for my 23 year old banger were available of the shelf of a local motor factors the same day B-)............furthermore the cost of repair + parts + MOT + full service?

 

 

Less than £260 :D

 

 

..................I wonder what a Fiat main dealer would charge? >:-).........

 

 

PS If I did win the lottery...........which is unlikely as I'm reliably informed one must buy a ticket to take part :-S...............but should a shed load of money arrive in my lap, then I'd buy another Travelhome ;-)............

 

 

I'd pimp it and fit a Cosworth engine :D...........