Calais to Trieste then on to Greece. Advice on the 'East of Alps' route please

[rubberrat]

We're off to Greece again this April, it's been a few years since we took a camper down, so our newish demountable outfit will get it's first overseas jaunt.

 

So - East or West of the hilly bit in the middle?

 

Usually we go South, down through France, turn left into Italy, then onto Venice, and take the ferry from Venice to Patras (or hop off at Corfu if we fancy), but it seems that the 'Camping on Board' option is no longer available from Venice, so we need to book a boat from Trieste.

(We need camping on board, not only do we prefer it, but this time our dog is joining us)

 

What experience do you have?

Calais - Munich - Saltzberg - Trieste - the East of the alps route? ...or stick to our 'old' route and travel the extra 100kms or whatever past Venice on to Trieste - i.e West of the Alps.

 

I want to do a fairly quick run down this time rather than explore along the way as I have 'stuff' to do in Greece. But not necessarily the fastest route - as my Chevy/Demountable combo doesn't like excess speed.

 

I'm out of the loop with vignettes and permits these days too, so any pointers to aid my Googling would be much appreciated.

[starvin marvin]

I'm no use to you on this, but I'll watch the responses (if any?) With interest as we are looking ahead to Sept/Oct when we're looking to head for southern Greece for the winter.

 

Have you looked at, I think it is mazbaz travels. Web journal of a couple who travelled extensively. Not the most interesting read, too much detail for me.

 

Best of luck, safe travelling.

[Brian Kirby]

Have a look at this earlier post re getting to Venice, but carry on east for Trieste. http://tinyurl.com/k3mzahq Might be useful.

 

Have you checked all operators from Venice, as I was under the impression that camping on board was still available? Alternatively, might it be that you are looking to travel too early, as the camping on board option is suspended during winter?

[rubberrat]

We've definitely used camping on board at this time of year, but Minoan seem to have abandoned it, at least on all sailings I have tried up to May, but they may change. I can't recall my ANEK findings at the moment - no camping on board at all if I recall.

 

So far Trieste is the only option. Google map destination planning shows both East and West routes as similar in distance give or take 100 or so kms, but I've not done the East route and hoping for a comment from someone who has done it.

MMM correspondents have recently denounced Austrian zealous regulations and high toll charges, any 'Austrophiles' on here?

 

I quite fancy the East route after a trip (by air) to Hungary this year - I'd like to see more, but maybe on our more leisurely return journey.

[Robinhood]

rubberrat - 2014-01-04 1:49 PM

 

MMM correspondents have recently denounced Austrian zealous regulations and high toll charges, any 'Austrophiles' on here?

 

 

Austria is not the most user-friendly to traverse on Motorways if you are over 3.5t MAM.

 

Up to that weight, however, there is little problem, though you will need a (inexpensive and easily obtainable) vignette for Motorway use (or in your case, probably two shortish term ones - €8.50 for ten days - for each direction).

 

With a demountable, I suspect you don't exceed 3.5t?

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

The passage through Austria on that route is toll/maut free. Anek did do camping on board from Venice in 2010 (although we went from Ancona), because I explored the possibility. The prohibition on camping on board during winter was statutory, though I'm not sure whose jurisdiction. It depends on when you'd sail.

[rubberrat]

Ah the over 3500kg thing, now I remember - there was a readers letter in a recent MMM about problems.

My 'outfit' to use a tin tent term is over 3500kg (3000kg truck plus 670kg demountable) but I guess the base truck is the benchmark, so under 3500kg.

 

I wonder what some European police will make of a demountable rig?

The Germans are used to them but some other places might find it worth a tug for any coffer-filling law breaches. I understand that they are targeting A-frames in Spain.

 

Thanks for the advice on two short term vignettes . If we go this way around them thar hills I'll do that.

 

If required that is.

 

Brian - thanks for that link - some useful reading there.

[Robinhood]

rubberrat - 2014-01-04 8:11 PM

 

Ah the over 3500kg thing, now I remember - there was a readers letter in a recent MMM about problems.

My 'outfit' to use a tin tent term is over 3500kg (3000kg truck plus 670kg demountable) but I guess the base truck is the benchmark, so under 3500kg.

 

 

........nope. It's the MAM that is the benchmark. If you're legal given your stated weights, then the MAM of the truck MUST be over 3.5t, in which case, you are into much more inconvenient and expensive Go-Box territory for Austrian motorways.

 

Brian has indicated that the route set out earlier in the thread is "maut" free, so must avoid motorways, so it may be practical to use that.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

rubberrat - 2014-01-04 8:11 PM

 

Ah the over 3500kg thing, now I remember - there was a readers letter in a recent MMM about problems.

My 'outfit' to use a tin tent term is over 3500kg (3000kg truck plus 670kg demountable) but I guess the base truck is the benchmark, so under 3500kg.

 

I wonder what some European police will make of a demountable rig?

The Germans are used to them but some other places might find it worth a tug for any coffer-filling law breaches. I understand that they are targeting A-frames in Spain.

 

Thanks for the advice on two short term vignettes . If we go this way around them thar hills I'll do that.

 

If required that is.

 

Brian - thanks for that link - some useful reading there.

Another link for you, to Anek http://tinyurl.com/p5ps2la - who it seems may have amalgameted with Superfast. Camping on board is available from Veice or Ancona to Igoumenitsa or Patras between 1/4 and 31/10. From Venice there is also a "Camper" offer from 1/1/14 - 31/3/14, and again from 1/11/14 - 31/12/14, that gives you 230V hook up for the camper on closed (inacessible) deck but with an inside cabin, for what is claimed to be the same price. Seems not to run from Ancona. Prices approx €700 return from Venice and €600 from Ancona, to Igoumenitsa, camping on beard, for 2 seniors with 6.0M - 8.0M long van.

[Brian Kirby]

rubberrat - 2014-01-04 8:11 PM

 

Ah the over 3500kg thing, now I remember - there was a readers letter in a recent MMM about problems.

My 'outfit' to use a tin tent term is over 3500kg (3000kg truck plus 670kg demountable) but I guess the base truck is the benchmark, so under 3500kg....................

Not sure I follow this. You cannot add the demountable load to your MAM. If your truck is plated at 3,000kg MAM, that is its maximum permissible weight, irrespective of the load of the demountable. If this is the case you will not stray into go-box territory.

 

If, however, as Robin seems to be assuming, your truck's kerbweight is 3,000kg, he is correct, and you will be well over 3,500kg total laden weight. This should cause you no problem on the route I quoted, as you do not use any Austrian autobahnen or expressways.

 

The 670kg weight of your (presumably empty) demountable has to be accommodated within your truck's payload allowance, which will be (roughly) the difference between its kerb weight, and its plated MAM. Don't forget the remaining payload also has to accommodate everything else - including driver and passenger. How much you actually have to play with will depend on the kerb weight of your truck. Weighbridge time? :-)

 

The main drawback of demountables is that they place most of their load to the rear, placing the rear axle at risk of overload, and possibly leaving the steering very light. If you anticipate being "pulled" you may wish to check this.

[rubberrat]

I'll weight my truck empty today as I need to go to my local gravel pit. Most D/Cab trucks have a payload of either 1000kg or 1100kg so the demountable is well withing tolerance even loaded and 'wet'

 

Googling the weight of a typical D/Cab truck gives two different weights. Total 3000kg and a kerb weight of around 2000kgs depending on the model. So I guess the Kerb weight is 2000kgs and reference to 3000kgs is the all-up fully loaded weight. My error.

 

The demountable pod is considered a 'load' like any other load in a pickup - be that concrete, mountain bikes or a sleeping unit etc

 

Most of our 'kit' goes in a netted area in the rear seat area of the pickup keeping the weight forward so as not to load any area behind the rear axle..

 

Demountables are pretty stable to drive and the vast majority have air suspension to prevent rear sag. Although there is a slight 'lightening' of the front end, it isn't enough to cause handling problems.

The air bags push the rear up and also stop rolling on corners.

 

My concern over unwanted police attention stems from regular experience of somewhat overzealous police in Portugal who see a non-Portuguese number plate as a source of revenue. Roadblocks on the coastal N road tend to see mostly 'other' EU plated leisure vehicles or hire cars pulled in as they arrive from the Spanish side. These are the ones most likely to pay up without question so as to not spoil their holiday.

 

As demountables are a very rare sight in any country they tend to attract attention.

[Robinhood]

Brian Kirby - 2014-01-05 12:19 PM

 

rubberrat - 2014-01-04 8:11 PM

 

Ah the over 3500kg thing, now I remember - there was a readers letter in a recent MMM about problems.

My 'outfit' to use a tin tent term is over 3500kg (3000kg truck plus 670kg demountable) but I guess the base truck is the benchmark, so under 3500kg....................

Not sure I follow this. You cannot add the demountable load to your MAM. If your truck is plated at 3,000kg MAM, that is its maximum permissible weight, irrespective of the load of the demountable. If this is the case you will not stray into go-box territory.

 

If, however, as Robin seems to be assuming, your truck's kerbweight is 3,000kg, he is correct, and you will be well over 3,500kg total laden weight. This should cause you no problem on the route I quoted, as you do not use any Austrian autobahnen or expressways.

 

 

.....really the only assumption that could be made from the OP's words.

 

The further postings tell a different story however.

 

Weighing the two parts of the outfit is not a bad idea (though combined, with each axle also weighed individually might be a better one) as it will give some idea of the margin (if any) available on loading.

 

Nonetheless, the main figure at play here is still the plated MAM (GVW) of the base vehicle.

 

If this exceeds 3.5t then a Go-Box would be required in Austria (regardless of the actual weight-in-use). If it is below, then only a vignette is required.

 

If the measured all-up weight, however, exceeds the plated MAM (or indeed if either of the actual all-up axle loads exceeds its associated plated axle load) then the vehicle is illegal to use anywhere on public roads.

[FRANKP60]

Anek lines are still doing the Venice to Patras Webb site for 14 now live ,just had a look for 6.5 meters van with Camping on-board over 60year olds 797.40 euro .Just trying to find out more details about a possible Fuel tax /levy .Will advise.

[rubberrat]

Excellent - quite expensive though. Trieste deals with Minoan were around e500. Will look into those options.

What search site did you use? ANEKs own or aferryto etc/

 

 

BTW - Weighed my truck today, a bit of a rough guide as I has a trailer on but not on the 'bridge and my dog and a heap of kit inside and it came out at 2045 kgs

[FRANKP60]

Anek,s own Webb site ,used find a ferry worked out to 820e,s

[nowtelse2do]

You really need to let us know what your plate says, if 3,000kg MAM then you must be running close to your max. If 3,500kg MAM that's should do nicely.

 

Dave

[FRANKP60]

Asked a email question and have had a reply giving me an Italian number price quoted over phone vans 6,5 and 7.5 (two vans going) works out to 665.30 euros including any fuel levy.

Number is 0039 041 5286522.

[rubberrat]

nowtelse2do - 2014-01-06 7:32 PM

 

You really need to let us know what your plate says, if 3,000kg MAM then you must be running close to your max. If 3,500kg MAM that's should do nicely.

 

Dave

 

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/rubbersurfinrat/Chevyplate_zpsa2fa5cc5.jpg

 

GVW 2900kg

GCW 5900kg

Axle 1 1300kg

Axle 2 1850kg

 

So thats the plate... sorry it took a while - no flash on my phone and dark when I got home...

 

Had an email from Direct Ferries saying they had their Venice - Patras prices, but website still says no camping on board unless from Trieste. No prices either *-)

[Robinhood]

rubberrat - 2014-01-11 7:14 PM

 

GVW 2900kg

GCW 5900kg

Axle 1 1300kg

Axle 2 1850kg

 

So thats the plate... sorry it took a while - no flash on my phone and dark when I got home...

 

 

....that at least clarifies the position viz a viz Austrian motorway tolls.

 

Definitely subject only to the relatively cost-effective vignette (see previous posts), and no Go-Box required.

 

Just the question now of whether the all-up weight with the demountable and contents is above the GVW (MAM) of 2900 kg! ;-)

 

(though your posts to date on rough weights indicate that you might be OK).

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Robinhood - 2014-01-11 7:32 PM

 

rubberrat - 2014-01-11 7:14 PM

 

GVW 2900kg

GCW 5900kg

Axle 1 1300kg

Axle 2 1850kg

 

So thats the plate... sorry it took a while - no flash on my phone and dark when I got home...

 

 

....that at least clarifies the position viz a viz Austrian motorway tolls.

 

Definitely subject only to the relatively cost-effective vignette (see previous posts), and no Go-Box required...................

And you'll only need the vignette if you use the autobahnen or designated expressways. So, if you use the route I linked to above, you will not even need that. Choices, choices! :-D

 

I agree with Robin about the loadings: depending on what you take, you could be a bit tight! Weighbridge time, methinks!

[rubberrat]

I must say my transition to a demountable and its 'Expedition' styling has made us go for lightweight minimalist kit - a bit Bear Grylls-esq

Even reverted to petrol stove and lamp for outdoor cooking.

 

Not that we need any kit with this unit - it has everything built in so just a couple of light folding chairs, an aluminium table and our clothes and food (and the dog of course - but a Springer doesn't weigh much!

[davidmac]

Hi looking at heading for Florence and Pisa rather than Greece but using the route that has been sugested by Brian , Fussen -Fern Pass-Imst -Landec-L76 -180 into Italy.The query I have is that looking on Google maps the roads around the southern entrance / exit to the Landecker tunnel are marked as being toll.I can not see any booths so is this just the map being not quite accurate or me missing something?My M/H is over 3.5t and I am thinking of returning via Genoa, Nice, Lyon so do not want to bother with a go box.

Regards David

[Brian Kirby]

The tunnel is toll. There are no toll booths on the Austrian autobahnen, you have to buy a vignette as in Switzerland, but only if 3.5 tonnes or below. If over 3.5 tonnes you need a go-box. Avoid the tunnel and go via Landeck on the B171 and L76.

[davidmac]

Hi, Brian, thank you for clearing that up for me

 

Regards David

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks. You're welcome. :-)