Jump to content

Tyre valve failure


colin weston

Recommended Posts

I had a puncher repaired a couple of years ago. Tyre fitter instantly ripped the old valve out (it was a high pressure rubber one) and fitted a standard valve, I pointed out his error his reply was " we always fit those valves to all the milk floats and they run at higher pressure than your van". They did get the correct valve in after I insisted & I had to make another trip back to get the valve changed.

 

What chance do we stand with uneducated tyre fitters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 53
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Was the "puncher" you had repaired knocked out or lose on points?

I've just had my new alloys put on and the fitters, as was foretold, put normal rubber valves on.

When I queried it they made all sorts of claims, until they admitted they didn't stock any others.

I went to Fiat main dealer, hadn't got a clue!

So I looked around their stock of ducato vans and noticed they all had high pressure pull through valves.

So I made a few enquiries and found some locally, took them to the fitters and made them put them on.

They then wanted to charge me for the privilege.

When I had new tyres on the steel rims previously, they left the screw in valves in place, which I guess is normal practice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am further confused by the statement that "the high pressure valves were ripped out and new low pressure ones fitted".

 

'Proper' high pressure valves are bolted through the wheel.

 

When removing normal rubber valves it is common practice to cut the large do-nut part off the inside of the wheel with a knife. With a high pressure rubber valve this is not possible. You have to use a saw blade to cut through the brass insert because even if the insert does not pass right through to the inside edge of the valve seal it is still present where the valve passes through the wheel.

 

If the old valves were 'ripped out' or cut off; they were not high pressure valves.

 

Nick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lennyhb - 2014-01-14 6:15 PM

 

Nick they were high pressure valves with the brass inserts maybe you are taking words too literally, seem to remember he struggled to get them out but had already mullered the valve before I could stop him.

 

One of the claimed benefits of Alligator's "CVV EASY" high-pressure snap-in tyre-valve (designed with light-commercial vehicles and motorhomes in mind) is its easy installation and removal. A video-clip and two downloadbale documents can be found here:

 

http://www.alligator-ventilfabrik.de/index.php?492a5c5857814

 

These are advertised (in several lengths) on e-bay for around £1.70 each. I provided a link in my earlier posting of 11 January 2014 3:46 PM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

malc d - 2014-01-11 3:48 PM

 

colin weston - 2014-01-11 12:26 PM

 

Had a bit of a shock the other day when I noticed one of my rear tyres was nearly flat. I assumed that I had a slow puncture. The pressure was down to 10 psi so I got my foot pump out and got the pressure up to 50 psi with a lot of effort (normal pressure for the rear tyres is 65 psi). Releasing the pump attachment from the valve I could hear a leak in the vicinity of the valve and found that air was leaking from the rubber near the base of the valve. By wedging a piece of wood between the valve and the rim I was able to stop the leak and drove to my local Kwikfit which is only a few hundred yards away. They fitted a new valve and all is OK. The valve is one of the original fitments as are the tyres which will be coming up to 7 years old this summer. All the other valves appear to be OK although I would obviously have these changed when new tyres are fitted. The valve gives the appearance of impact damage. Never experienced such a failure before. Cause?

 

 

Hi Colin

 

I have had precisely the same problem in the last couple of days.

 

My van had been standing idle for about 6 days when I noticed that one tyre was almost flat.

 

I pumped it up with a compressor and heard air hissing out from around the valve.

( I managed to wedge a stone alongside the valve to stop it leaking ).

 

Further examination, once the wheel was removed showed that the valve has split on one side - so it's not the 'fitting' that failed - for some reason it has split.

The valve is only about three years old so I'd be surprised if it has perished.

 

So - cause currently unknown.

 

;-)

 

p.s. looks like yours has split in a similar place.

 

 

 

As a follow up - I took the tyre in for a new valve today and they automatically fitted a high pressure valve to replace the split rubber one.

 

Maybe it's becoming a more frequent problem ?

 

:-|

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Robinhood - 2014-01-15 4:59 PM

 

malc d - 2014-01-15 3:09 PM

 

 

As a follow up - I took the tyre in for a new valve today and they automatically fitted a high pressure valve to replace the split rubber one.

 

Maybe it's becoming a more frequent problem ?

 

:-|

 

....snap-in or bolt-in?

 

 

 

Sorry Robin - didn't get a look at it.

 

It was so quick I would assume it was ' snap -on.

 

They just said it was a high pressure valve ( and didn't charge me for doing it ).

 

 

;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

malc d - 2014-01-15 5:27 PM

 

 

Sorry Robin - didn't get a look at it.

 

It was so quick I would assume it was ' snap -on.

 

They just said it was a high pressure valve ( and didn't charge me for doing it ).

 

 

;-)

 

....on the clamp-in ones, the nut is very visible on the outside, so next time you get a look you will know. ;-)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

malc d - 2014-01-15 5:27 PM

 

 

Sorry Robin - didn't get a look at it.

 

It was so quick I would assume it was ' snap -on.

 

They just said it was a high pressure valve ( and didn't charge me for doing it ).

 

 

;-)

 

....on the clamp-in ones, the nut is very visible on the outside, so next time you get a look you will know. ;-)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

malc d - 2014-01-15 5:27 PM

 

Sorry Robin - didn't get a look at it.

 

It was so quick I would assume it was ' snap -on.

 

They just said it was a high pressure valve ( and didn't charge me for doing it ).

 

 

;-)

 

I'm a bit surprised your Murvi would have high-pressure tyre valves from new, which makes me wonder why the tyre-fitter decided to fit such a valve as a replacement.

 

As Robin says, metal clamp-in valves are unmistakable and I've yet to see a high-pressure snap-in valve that did not have a fair amount of its metal stem exposed. If the valve that was fitted to your motorhome hasn't got an exposed stem as shown in the examples in the photos on this earlier thread

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/High-Pressure-Tyre-Valves/26272/

 

it's near certain that it's not high-pressure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek Uzzell - 2014-01-15 6:52 PM

 

malc d - 2014-01-15 5:27 PM

 

Sorry Robin - didn't get a look at it.

 

It was so quick I would assume it was ' snap -on.

 

They just said it was a high pressure valve ( and didn't charge me for doing it ).

 

 

;-)

 

I'm a bit surprised your Murvi would have high-pressure tyre valves from new, which makes me wonder why the tyre-fitter decided to fit such a valve as a replacement.

 

As Robin says, metal clamp-in valves are unmistakable and I've yet to see a high-pressure snap-in valve that did not have a fair amount of its metal stem exposed. If the valve that was fitted to your motorhome hasn't got an exposed stem as shown in the examples in the photos on this earlier thread

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/High-Pressure-Tyre-Valves/26272/

 

it's near certain that it's not high-pressure.

 

 

 

 

 

'ere it is.

 

Looks like ' high pressure snap-on' to me.

 

valve5.jpg.634fe71d6dfcb749dd45bf6826d6c526.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek Uzzell - 2014-01-14 6:45 PM

 

lennyhb - 2014-01-14 6:15 PM

 

Nick they were high pressure valves with the brass inserts maybe you are taking words too literally, seem to remember he struggled to get them out but had already mullered the valve before I could stop him.

 

One of the claimed benefits of Alligator's "CVV EASY" high-pressure snap-in tyre-valve (designed with light-commercial vehicles and motorhomes in mind) is its easy installation and removal. A video-clip and two downloadbale documents can be found here:

 

http://www.alligator-ventilfabrik.de/index.php?492a5c5857814

 

These are advertised (in several lengths) on e-bay for around £1.70 each. I provided a link in my earlier posting of 11 January 2014 3:46 PM.

 

That video seems to show the valve failing at well over 100bar, fair safety factor there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In addition to the CVV Easy snap-in valve Alligator markets a simpler-to-fit metal clamp-in valve called ASC-HT that's rated to 14bar (200psi). It's referred to in this product listing and there's a downloadable information sheet.

 

http://www.alligator-ventilfabrik.de/index.php?ALLIGATOR_CVV48c7723cc0fe7

 

Not sure about these valves' availability in the UK, though 47mm-length versions are UK e-bay advertised here

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-Transporter-Ventil-Alligator-Ventile-ASC-HT-47-mm-/251183680109

Link to comment
Share on other sites

malc d - 2014-01-16 1:50 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2014-01-16 1:02 PM

 

I agree.

 

Is that what the tyre-valves fitted to your motorhome's other wheels look like?

 

 

No Derek

 

On the others the rubber comes right up to the thread - no metal sleeve visible.

 

 

Perhaps you use highish tyre pressures and you mentioned this to the tyre-fitter. Otherwise I'd have expected an ordinary 'car' valve to have been chosen matching the other wheels' valves. Or perhaps the fitter habitually fits HP valves to motorhomes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek Uzzell - 2014-01-17 8:04 AM

 

malc d - 2014-01-16 1:50 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2014-01-16 1:02 PM

 

I agree.

 

Is that what the tyre-valves fitted to your motorhome's other wheels look like?

 

 

No Derek

 

On the others the rubber comes right up to the thread - no metal sleeve visible.

 

 

Perhaps you use highish tyre pressures and you mentioned this to the tyre-fitter. Otherwise I'd have expected an ordinary 'car' valve to have been chosen matching the other wheels' valves. Or perhaps the fitter habitually fits HP valves to motorhomes.

 

 

 

I have always run the van on 60psi front and 65 psi rear tyres - ( but I didn't mention pressures to the fitters before the repair )

 

All the tyres on the van have been fitted by the same supplier - two complete sets so far - so all the valves were fitted by the same firm.

 

It may be that they have had an increase in " failed valves " and have decided to go for higher pressure ones as a matter of policy - although they made no comment to that effect.

 

I certainly intend to go for the higher pressure ones as and when they are replaced - as the difference in cost is negligible - and extra " peace of mind " worth a few extra pence.

 

 

;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having educated myself via the Alligator website I am a lot wiser. Looking back to my valve failure it raises the question whether the valve was over-stressed during assembly. Is this assembly done manually for wheel/valve/tyre at Peugeot or Fiat? Maybe they ran short of lubricant. Any operation entailing a human will incurr a small percentage of errors. When I need to replace my tyres I feel inclined to source some Easy fit (and easy removal) valves from Alligator.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I had a 7-year old tyre-valve begin to leak, I would not anticipate this might be because it was over-stressed when it was originally fitted - I'd just put it down to old age or (if there were evidence to support it) damage.

 

The photo you provided does suggest that your valve may have been 'wrenched', something a new valve might cope with but not an old one. (I'm a mite surprised it was removed from the wheel whole. Tyre fitters tend to cut off a low-pressure valve's base to remove it.) If that's what happened, it would be unrealistic to blame Peugeot/Fiat.

 

10 years is often suggested as the maximum lifespan of a tyre, at which age euthanasia should be carried out. And it's regularly recommended that leisure-vehicle tyres should be replaced well before that. The poor little tyre-valve is conveniently ignored, however, with it seemingly being believed that a valve should always last for whatever length of time a tyre is on a wheel.

 

When tyres fail it will rarely be because they have been wrongly fitted. Tyre-valves are slightly different as it is possible to fit them incompetently (which includes fitting an unsuitable type of valve), but any valve that has survived for 7 years must be assumed to have been correctly fitted initially.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The rubber valves appear to be a bit more foolproof when fitting. A friend had a flat in France when the breakdown truck finally arrived the problem was easily sorted the metal valve had not been tightened properly and was leaking around the O ring seal. He had, had the valves changed a few day before his trip.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

colin weston - 2014-01-19 3:56 PM........ Looking back to my valve failure it raises the question whether the valve was over-stressed during assembly. Is this assembly done manually for wheel/valve/tyre at Peugeot or Fiat? ......................

Whereas the primary responsibility clearly lies with the SEVEL consortium, it is extremely unlikely they fit tyres/valves to wheels at the factory. My understanding is that they buy-in wheels pre-fitted with tyres and valves from several suppliers (on the proverbial "just in time" basis), albeit the suppliers have to obtain the wheels, tyres, and probably the valves, from specified sources (or at minimum to specified standards).

 

As your van is a PVC, unless the converter specified otherwise, it is likely it left the factory appropriately shod for general light van duties. Certain of the van variants do not have sufficiently high design axle loadings to require the higher pressures usually needed for motorhomes. So, your valves will probably have been the correct type for the intended use, as understood by the manufacturer.

 

Commercial vehicles usually cover tens of thousands of miles per year, so frequent tyre changes would be the norm. It is pretty much standard practise to change valves (except clamp-in type) when tyres are changed, so your valves would only have been expected to remain in service for a year or two, maybe less than that.

 

It is commonly recommended that tyres are changed after 7 years irrespective of wear, some even advocate changing at 5 years, and the absolute back stop (though not legally defined), is, as Derek says, 10 years - with all being subject to inspections for cracking etc. So, if your van still has its original valves, I reckon the remaining valves (and tyres) have reached their sell-by dates. They've done pretty well to last as long as they have. I think - sigh :-) - the verdict has to be failure due to old age!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian Kirby - 2014-01-20 1:02 PM

 

...As your van is a PVC, unless the converter specified otherwise, it is likely it left the factory appropriately shod for general light van duties. Certain of the van variants do not have sufficiently high design axle loadings to require the higher pressures usually needed for motorhomes. So, your valves will probably have been the correct type for the intended use, as understood by the manufacturer...

 

Colin's motorhome is a 2007 Autocruise Starburst 'low profile' coachbuilt model.

 

A 2006 MMM review of a Starburst http://tinyurl.com/3gnv5ey indicates that the vehicle on test had Michelin 215/70 R15C 'camping-car' tyres, whereas Colin's has Michelin Agilis tyres in the less common Ducato 225/70 R15C optional size.

 

As I said earlier, I'd have expected a Starburst to have been marketed with camping-car tyres (accompanied by metal clamp-in valves). It's possible that camping-car tyres were temporarily unavailable at the time and wider 'white van' tyres were fitted to provide a higher load index, though a Starburst is quite compact and not particularly heavy. Too late in the day to try and find out.

 

It might be wise to treat the failure of one 7-year-old valve as a Gypsy's Warning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...