lynandie Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi everybody. I am new to motorhoming and I have only taken our motorhome around the UK so far. We are planning are first trip to Europe this year so if possible could anyone give me any pro's or con's on taking a tag axle to Europe. I presume that I would have to pay more for toll roads, would I have to get into the freight lane when going through tolls?? I take it that most campsites do except this kind of motor home in Europe!! We own a Burstner 875g, 9m long, 5000kg Many thanks for any advice on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easyliving Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi Our van is not a tag axle and is a mere 7.5 metres so I can't advise from personal experience. 'Eric and Shazza' are a couple of fulltimers currently in Spain in their 8.7 metre Auto Tral Commanche. From reading the excellent blog written by Eric it seems they have very few problems driving a large vehicle. http://ericandshazza.wordpress.com/ You mention motorway tolls and campsites. Both of these can be avoided if you like! Tell your satnav to avoid toll roads and use motorhome aires for overnight. The 'All the Aires' guides by Vicarious Books are very good. http://www.vicariousbooks.com/ Have a great trip, they don't call France 'motorhome heaven' for nothing. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Avoid Autoroute Peage (Toll roads) with your Tag axle van or any van with a maximum gross weight (PTAC in France) over 3500Kg Normal Camping cars are rated at class 2 whereas vehicles with 3 axles and or weighing more than 3.5T are Class 4 which more than doubles the price! http://www.aprr.fr/autoroute/tarifs_aprr.pdf?FileID=pdf%2ftarifs_aprr.pdf All vehicles of more than 3.5T have speed restrictions i.e. are treated as HGVs and many minor roads and town areas forbid anything over 3.5T. although the CC claim the speed stickers are not required for visitors. http://www.apivir.org/documentation/docloisetreglements/limitesvitesse.htm As for camp sites I have known sites where there is an additional 25€ per day supplement for tag axle vans, perhaps because they are so favoured by our travelling friends :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Many aires have a maximum length of 6m although this is often stretched a bit. Some aires are tight for 6m so it might be best to bear that in mind. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 hallii - 2014-01-13 5:02 PMMany aires have a maximum length of 6m although this is often stretched a bit. Some aires are tight for 6m so it might be best to bear that in mind.H Again it depends on the aire and your van rear overhang, many have a grass area immediately behind the van and thus you can hang your rear there and still stay on the hard stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 You may need to book campsites in advance, as some do not have spaces for very large vans. Would sugest you ring ahead, as I have seen large vans turned away, especialy if you tow a trailer! PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 We have been touring Europe in tag axles for the last 12 years albeit now down to a 7.6 metres long motorhome Municipal camp sites can be a problem with a tag, due to the itinerant Hobby caravans in France. But usually with a UK reg motorhome we have managed OK. Only occasions where a council "jobsworth" employee has consulted the official rules ! We avoid tolls unless the alternative is through a city centre or we are in a hurry as the alternative N roads are far more interesting. If the booths are manned we have always been charged Group 2 ,same as a standard motorhome. Automatic pay booths can be a problem but if we have been charged more than Group 2 ,press the red emergency button and say "camping car " and the price is recalculated. I think its the height camera that picks up my van as its 3.15 m. One exception is the Millau Viaduct ! I have been down South and paid € 10 and on return € 32 .on an unmanned. On pressing the red button I was told I was a BIG camping car so paid the same as a 16 wheel artic !! So we go round through Millau now !! Some aires,as already mentioned can be tight . Although we have usually managed to get in somewhere. Italy will charge Group 3 but the tolls are very reasonable anyway and you are much better off using the autostradas as the secondary roads are busy !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I had a tag Hymer for 10 years and toured Europe extensively with no problems, if I ever went on a Peage I just used any lane with no problems I never ever thought I should use a particular lane, I just paid the toll asked and off I went, Over 3.5 tonnes restrict you to certain roads and speeds but not the number of axles you have, Norway costs more if you are longer than six metres so that makes no difference, never had any problems parking anywhere with the tag and was only refused one Campsite in 10 years because of the tag and that was in Holland, they directed me to a nearby Campsite that turned out cheaper and better than the original, we prefer to wild camp on our trips and that has never been a problem anywhere with the tag, don't worry you will be fine just go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel64 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 looking at ACSI for my off-season trip, not many appear to take tag axles in france may be worth a check. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynandie Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi every one Many thanks for your message's. Most interesting about the tolls (red button) Ian We are looking forward to our first trip, through Belgium into Germany, final destination Berlin. I know everything is a learning curve but thanks again for all the helpful advice Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWO Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 lynandie - 2014-01-13 9:20 PM Hi Ian Many thanks for your message. Most interesting about the tolls (red button) Andy But it is still fraud If you are over 3M high,or 3500Kg or got three sets of wheels. HWO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 If it is fraud, I do wonder why in 12 years of using manned booths I have always been charged Group 2 ? I have never been charged Group 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 whisturx - 2014-01-14 9:12 AM If it is fraud, I do wonder why in 12 years of using manned booths I have always been charged Group 2 ? I have never been charged Group 3. Perhaps the operater does not want an argument (not thier money any way) How about unmaned booths? PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 As mentioned above, press the red button and in your best " Franglais" say Camping Car. As most automatic booths have tried to charge me Group 4 . Hence the complaint. Exception being the Millau Viaduct which appears totally random . Could be time of day, whether they have had a row with their spouse, England beating France in rugby , or time for a two hour lunch break !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 HWO - 2014-01-13 9:35 PM lynandie - 2014-01-13 9:20 PM Hi Ian Many thanks for your message. Most interesting about the tolls (red button) Andy But it is still fraud If you are over 3M high,or 3500Kg or got three sets of wheels. HWO Hmmmm ! seems France is 'Motorhome heaven' unless.....you are over 3m high, over 3500kgs,over 6m long or have a tag Axle van. All of these specifications are very common (I have 3 out of 4) indeed in the UK I would say the majority are at least 2 out of 4. So, not such a 'Motorhome Heaven' at all ?? Unless you 'Conform'. Put me off going, although the Mrs is still keen. (she doesn't drive). :-S Ray What is the 'Fraud' he is talking about ? the guy has paid a toll. 'Fraud' is when you alter your Plates and pay nothing !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 whisturx - 2014-01-14 10:40 AM As mentioned above, press the red button and in your best " Franglais" say Camping Car. As most automatic booths have tried to charge me Group 4 . Hence the complaint. Exception being the Millau Viaduct which appears totally random . Could be time of day, whether they have had a row with their spouse, England beating France in rugby , or time for a two hour lunch break !! I can only assume you are unfamiliar with the French autoroute classification system. This is shown pictorially here http://www.autoroutes.fr/en/vehicle-classification.htm and there should be no argument over which Category applies to your 3-axle Frankia - it's Category 4. If you are mischarged a lower Category fee, or you manage to 'negotiate' a lower Category fee by using the call-button, good luck. But it's appropriate for the Category 4 fee to be applied to your motorhome and, if paying a Category 4 fee is insisted on, you've no legitimate cause for complaint. (Many UK motorcaravanners seem to believe all motorhomes, irrespective of their height, weight or number of axles, have a special autoroute Category 2 toll-fee status. I don't know where this belief has come from (Internet forum misinformation, possibly), but it's nonsense.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Probably from the fact that these are 'Leisure Vehicles' not 'Goods Vehicles', in the UK we tend to look on Private Leisure vehicles differently from HGV's. It appears in the 'Wider EU' that is not the case. It is only in the last few months that Our DVLA has dropped the requirement to learn all about 'Drivers Hours' and Tachographs when going for a test for a Motorhome over 3500kg. (of which there are a lot, in the UK), about time too. The sooner that the 'Distinction' between HGV's/RV's/Motorhomes is hammered out the better. Ray Sorry Derek I should have read your Link, catogory 3 without a doubt, for me at least. looks like the extra axle is very expensive in Tolls. I must remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Perhaps the French autoroute classification system needs to be explained to the staff employed in the manned booths as I have never been charged Group 3/4 on any peage in France to date over 12 years ! Or could it be my smile ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWO Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 whisturx - 2014-01-14 9:12 AM If it is fraud, I do wonder why in 12 years of using manned booths I have always been charged Group 2 ? I have never been charged Group 3. Agreed that if someone wants to charge you x and the true figure should be 3x so be it. you were suggesting phoning a remote point and trying to have the bill reduced from 3x to x by deception that is fraud. HWO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynandie Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Hi every one What ever the tolls cost I am looking forward to taking our Burstner tag motorhome through Europe and especially looking forward to meeting other people who have motorhomes, British or European. One other question. How does German tolls compare to French tolls in price?? Thanks again for all the advice every one . Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughman Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 German's great - no tolls and more lenient speed limits, even if you are over the magic 3.5 tonne mark. We did all over Southern and some Eastern Europe in our old Burstner 820i and Germany wins hands down. The place to avoid motorways is Austria - over tonne you need a Go box (Google it) which ticks up a charge by distance travelled. It cost us 300 Euros to do the return trip from Passau to the other side of Vienna :'( Tolls are higher in most places over 3.5t, but Austria's the worst. Answer; steer clear of motorways, but be prepared to spend longer getting from A to B, and also be prepared for using your manoeuvring skills on some of the twistier and steeper rtoads. All good fun though :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 " you were suggesting phoning a remote point and trying to have the bill reduced from 3x to x by deception that is fraud. " All automated booths are covered by CCTV overhead and ground fixed cameras, so the operator on the emergency phone can see the vehicle in question . So why reduce the toll back to Group 2 ? It was this forum that passed on the tip in the first place, including a complete translation in French !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 whisturx - 2014-01-14 5:23 PM Perhaps the French autoroute classification system needs to be explained to the staff employed in the manned booths as I have never been charged Group 3/4 on any peage in France to date over 12 years ! Or could it be my smile ??? It could be your smile, but your Frankia is still Category 4. This downloable leaflet goes into more detail on autoroute vehicle categories http://www.autoroutes.fr/FCKeditor/UserFiles/File/ASFA%20CLASSE%20VEHICULE%20BD.pdf Class 4 applies to heavy-goods vehicles, coaches and other vehicles with 3 or more axles that have a height greater than or equal to 3 metres or a maximum authorised weight above 3500kg. I'm sure you'll agree that description fits your Frankia motorhome. The current Millau Viaduc toll-fees are listed here http://www.leviaducdemillau.com/version_html/tarifs.php The fee for Class 1 and 2 vehicles is lower outside the Summer period, but it remains the same all-year-round for Categories 3, 4 and 5. The current Class 4 fee is 32.40€ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 So Ian (whisturx) paid the correct class 4 toll on his return trip via Millau (€32) but was fortunate on the way out to only be charged €10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Rayjsj - 2014-01-14 10:52 AM Hmmmm ! seems France is 'Motorhome heaven' unless.....you are over 3m high, over 3500kgs,over 6m long or have a tag Axle van. All of these specifications are very common (I have 3 out of 4) indeed in the UK I would say the majority are at least 2 out of 4. So, not such a 'Motorhome Heaven' at all ?? Unless you 'Conform'. Put me off going, although the Mrs is still keen. (she doesn't drive). :-S Ray ! Ray, don't let the thought of a few tolls put you off. Yes, big vans can attract big toll but yours only has two axles (although over 3500kg) so wont be too bad. Anyway, for a toe-dip first trip to France you probably won't even use a toll road, just enjoy the hassle free driving of the other roads, N class etc. Honestly, take the plunge, at least for one short exploratory trip, I'm sure you'll both love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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