Tracker Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-14 10:02 AM it really is time that you started to put into practice the signature that you peddle every day and accept that many people are happy with the CC and like its sites. We're all different! There you go again trying to pervert my posting, just as you always do with everyone who dares to have a differing view to Frank Almighty, and whenever you feel the need to further reinforce your own point of view by the distortion of previous postings to suit your own ends. Please show me where in this thread have I criticised club sites, or is that your selective reading again? Please show me where I have ever said to anyone not to use club sites or the NEC? Please show me where I have ever suggested to anyone to leave any club? You won't, because I have never have and never will! I fully understand the reasons why for many people club site camping is ideal for them - it was for us once upon a time - and, unlike some, I have never advocated anyone should change their ways, but that does not mean that as a non club liker I am as entitled as any club lover to state my view. Counter views are always welcome but not when they include personal criticism and as has been said many times before you really do need to learn to be able to respond to the message not the messenger. When I start reading that club sites welcome unbooked wandering members who just need an overnight stop arriving unannounced at 5.00 pm then I might consider rejoining, although as touring abroad does have the weather advantage maybe not? We are indeed all different and that means we all have differing points of view which we are all equally entitled to post, but that perspective also seems to escape your notice whenever it suits your purpose. You will note that I have yet again critcicised nobody here - not even those who use the NEC 'site' - other than you - and I have certainly criticised nobody's chosen way of camping. So let me reiterate, I only criticise you for poor attitude and your refusal to accept any point of view that is different to your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-14 1:13 PM I recall that you did a motorhome package tour of Morocco not long ago, which I know used lots sites. My apologies it had slipped my mind - you are right - we did do an accompanied tour of Morocco in 2009 and we did stay on sites. I do not criticise you for your way of touring so who are you to once again look for any weak excuse to have yet another unprovoked jibe at me by diverting a thread about the CC to your own point of view about Morocco, where at least we did not have to listen to a diesel generator all night and they did not cost £30 a night for the pleasure! Africa was an unknown to us as was accompanied touring and yes, we did feel happier in a group of mainly like minded people and I would not knock Dessert Detours as an introduction to Africa which is very different from Europe. We enjoyed it but I accept that it is not everyone's ideal which is why I do not tell others how they should tour. With an attitude like yours I can quite see why you prefer to tour alone and it's probably better for everyone else that way too, so on behalf of everyone else - thanks Frank, much appreciated!! You really are a sad case Frank to keep needing to delve into history to find excuses to criticise. Please do not make malicious judgements on my spending habits of which you know nothing more than your own wishful perceptions. Firstly you tell me I spent more that I need to and in the next breath you call me tight fisted? Which is it to be Frank? Do please try to restrain yourself from posting gratuitous insults just to reinforce your own misconceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Ooops, hit a nerve I think! (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 NEC parking information is here http://www.thenec.co.uk/visiting-us/car-parking/ and details of next month's Caravan & Camping Show are here http://www.thenec.co.uk/whatson/caravan-camping-show-2014/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-14 10:22 AM bolero boy - 2014-01-14 10:14 AM chas - 2014-01-14 9:35 AM You must remember that this land is owned and run by the N.E.C. and that's why it is so expensive to stay on it........ ..but, Chas, there is no NEC charge to park during the day, its part of the admission price. What I am saying is that many overnighters would happily pay an extra £10 parking fee to leave their van in the normal carpark and not be bothered with the 'facilities' on offer which, I'm sure, the vast majority are not interested in. These 'extras' are just a smokescreen to hide the exorbitant fee behind. What are the CC ofFering over and above one of their normal sites (at, say, £18) or a THS at far less? Has to be a case of milking here...... So you appear to know what the CC is paying the NEC? Perhaps you can enlighten us? And comparing it with a normal site is just silly! On a normal site you don't have to ship in generators, erect a huge marquee, provide a bar and entertainment and lay cabling for 400 'vans just for a week only to have to remove it all again. Electric installations on sites last for many years and the relative cost is a fraction of a temporary one. If you don't want to use this facility you don't have to, but many people are happy to do so and presumably enjoy the social side and the bar and entertainment etc. But I do wonder at your inside knowledge of the costing of this operation and how the CC is making an exorbitant profit - come on, let's have the figures! Frank, you seem to have me confused with someone else. Where, in my post, did i reveal inside knowledge of the the fiscal relationship between the NEC and the CC? You really have waded in here all guns blazing, haven't you? Not, untypically, I may add ;-) My point, had you read it, was that vans already parked for free in the main carpark (now, pay attention) without recourse to the CC, could be allowed to stay overnight for, say, £10. No electric, no generators, no shipping around of kit at outrageous prices, just a parking space....that's all I said. Oh, I did say that I thought the high price charged by the CC was softened by the provision of entertainment, etc but the majority, given the choice of a cheaper option, probably wouldn't require the bells and whistles for one night. Sorry if I hit a nerve but I think its expensive (tho its my choice to use it or not) and not really necessary. My view of course. I know nothing of 'secret' fiscal goings on......try Chas, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-14 1:46 PM Ooops, hit a nerve I think! (lol) (lol) ...and I thought I had hit one of yours, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 bolero boy - 2014-01-14 4:11 PM Had Enough - 2014-01-14 10:22 AM bolero boy - 2014-01-14 10:14 AM chas - 2014-01-14 9:35 AM You must remember that this land is owned and run by the N.E.C. and that's why it is so expensive to stay on it........ ..but, Chas, there is no NEC charge to park during the day, its part of the admission price. What I am saying is that many overnighters would happily pay an extra £10 parking fee to leave their van in the normal carpark and not be bothered with the 'facilities' on offer which, I'm sure, the vast majority are not interested in. These 'extras' are just a smokescreen to hide the exorbitant fee behind. What are the CC ofFering over and above one of their normal sites (at, say, £18) or a THS at far less? Has to be a case of milking here...... So you appear to know what the CC is paying the NEC? Perhaps you can enlighten us? And comparing it with a normal site is just silly! On a normal site you don't have to ship in generators, erect a huge marquee, provide a bar and entertainment and lay cabling for 400 'vans just for a week only to have to remove it all again. Electric installations on sites last for many years and the relative cost is a fraction of a temporary one. If you don't want to use this facility you don't have to, but many people are happy to do so and presumably enjoy the social side and the bar and entertainment etc. But I do wonder at your inside knowledge of the costing of this operation and how the CC is making an exorbitant profit - come on, let's have the figures! Frank, you seem to have me confused with someone else. Where, in my post, did i reveal inside knowledge of the the fiscal relationship between the NEC and the CC? You really have waded in here all guns blazing, haven't you? Not, untypically, I may add ;-) My point, had you read it, was that vans already parked for free in the main carpark (now, pay attention) without recourse to the CC, could be allowed to stay overnight for, say, £10. No electric, no generators, no shipping around of kit at outrageous prices, just a parking space....that's all I said. Oh, I did say that I thought the high price charged by the CC was softened by the provision of entertainment, etc but the majority, given the choice of a cheaper option, probably wouldn't require the bells and whistles for one night. Sorry if I hit a nerve but I think its expensive (tho its my choice to use it or not) and not really necessary. My view of course. I know nothing of 'secret' fiscal goings on......try Chas, perhaps? No you didn't hit any nerve but what you said is this: 'These 'extras' are just a smokescreen to hide the exorbitant fee behind. What are the CC ofFering over and above one of their normal sites (at, say, £18) or a THS at far less? Has to be a case of milking here.....' What I can't work out is how you know that the fees are exorbitant and that the CC is milking its customers. I presumed from this that you must know what the CC's base costs are because without knowing what it's cost the CC to set up this site and what it's paying the NEC I do not understand how you can come to any decision about the profitability or otherwise of the operation. So on what basis have you decided that these fees are some kind of rip-off? I think that this quote from Malc D is the most sensible one so far: '£30 does seem a lot, but without an inside knowledge of how the charges are made up it's not possible to judge how 'reasonable' the charges are. For anyone travelling a distance to get there £30 for the convenience may be worth while. ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Tracker - 2014-01-14 1:41 PM ................................ I would not knock Dessert Detours as an introduction to Africa which is very different from Europe. ....just mind you don't end up in custardy. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I'm probably odd but I see no reason to ever wanting to go to any of these big shows. I read and assess what is needed. Job done. Its the 'herding instinct' of humans like shopping in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 malc d - 2014-01-14 4:34 PM Tracker - 2014-01-14 1:41 PM ................................ I would not knock Dessert Detours as an introduction to Africa which is very different from Europe. ....just mind you don't end up in custardy. :-| They would all line up in the morning waiting for the wagonmaster to sago but no one could leave until they'd spotted Dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Will85 - 2014-01-14 4:45 PM I'm probably odd.... Blimey Will 8-) ..Having seen some of the threads that you've started over in chatterbox, I don't think you're going to get many arguing with you on that score! (lol) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 pepe63 - 2014-01-14 4:55 PM Will85 - 2014-01-14 4:45 PM I'm probably odd.... Blimey Will 8-) ..Having seen some of the threads that you've started over in chatterbox, I don't think you're going to get many arguing with you on that score! (lol) ;-) When I grow up........I want to be like Will B-)......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Will85 - 2014-01-14 4:45 PM I'm probably odd but I see no reason to ever wanting to go to any of these big shows. I read and assess what is needed. Job done. Its the 'herding instinct' of humans like shopping in general. You are NOT odd Will, (at least, your views aren't !! ). I agree, unless I have a specific reason to visit a show, and I cannot think of a valid one at the moment. I stay away. If I wanted to change my Van, I visit a Dealer,mid-week, then at least I can look over the van in peace, check the shower, beds,etc., all at a leisurely pace, without 'every man' his wife and mother-in-law and kids all pushing in and crowding me. I think that the CC see the 'need' for some local accomodation though, their Local sites Chapel Lane and Harbury fields are always 'Chock a bloc' for the dates of the Shows. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Will85 - 2014-01-14 4:45 PM I'm probably odd but I see no reason to ever wanting to go to any of these big shows. I read and assess what is needed. Job done. Its the 'herding instinct' of humans like shopping in general. There is one worth going to - Düsseldorf, both times we have been we have brought a new van & you don't get ripped off on the camping. Another plus, no British built rubbish on show. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-14 4:22 PM bolero boy - 2014-01-14 4:11 PM Had Enough - 2014-01-14 10:22 AM bolero boy - 2014-01-14 10:14 AM chas - 2014-01-14 9:35 AM You must remember that this land is owned and run by the N.E.C. and that's why it is so expensive to stay on it........ ..but, Chas, there is no NEC charge to park during the day, its part of the admission price. What I am saying is that many overnighters would happily pay an extra £10 parking fee to leave their van in the normal carpark and not be bothered with the 'facilities' on offer which, I'm sure, the vast majority are not interested in. These 'extras' are just a smokescreen to hide the exorbitant fee behind. What are the CC ofFering over and above one of their normal sites (at, say, £18) or a THS at far less? Has to be a case of milking here...... So you appear to know what the CC is paying the NEC? Perhaps you can enlighten us? And comparing it with a normal site is just silly! On a normal site you don't have to ship in generators, erect a huge marquee, provide a bar and entertainment and lay cabling for 400 'vans just for a week only to have to remove it all again. Electric installations on sites last for many years and the relative cost is a fraction of a temporary one. If you don't want to use this facility you don't have to, but many people are happy to do so and presumably enjoy the social side and the bar and entertainment etc. But I do wonder at your inside knowledge of the costing of this operation and how the CC is making an exorbitant profit - come on, let's have the figures! Frank, you seem to have me confused with someone else. Where, in my post, did i reveal inside knowledge of the the fiscal relationship between the NEC and the CC? You really have waded in here all guns blazing, haven't you? Not, untypically, I may add ;-) My point, had you read it, was that vans already parked for free in the main carpark (now, pay attention) without recourse to the CC, could be allowed to stay overnight for, say, £10. No electric, no generators, no shipping around of kit at outrageous prices, just a parking space....that's all I said. Oh, I did say that I thought the high price charged by the CC was softened by the provision of entertainment, etc but the majority, given the choice of a cheaper option, probably wouldn't require the bells and whistles for one night. Sorry if I hit a nerve but I think its expensive (tho its my choice to use it or not) and not really necessary. My view of course. I know nothing of 'secret' fiscal goings on......try Chas, perhaps? No you didn't hit any nerve but what you said is this: 'These 'extras' are just a smokescreen to hide the exorbitant fee behind. What are the CC ofFering over and above one of their normal sites (at, say, £18) or a THS at far less? Has to be a case of milking here.....' What I can't work out is how you know that the fees are exorbitant and that the CC is milking its customers. I presumed from this that you must know what the CC's base costs are because without knowing what it's cost the CC to set up this site and what it's paying the NEC I do not understand how you can come to any decision about the profitability or otherwise of the operation. So on what basis have you decided that these fees are some kind of rip-off? I think that this quote from Malc D is the most sensible one so far: '£30 does seem a lot, but without an inside knowledge of how the charges are made up it's not possible to judge how 'reasonable' the charges are. For anyone travelling a distance to get there £30 for the convenience may be worth while. ' Ok, Frank, lets try and get it down to a couple of lines, shall we? In my opinion, I think £30 for a night in a carpark, especially one where I won't be using the (IMO) unnecessary, extra facilities is a bit of a rip-off. In my opinion, I think that, should the choice be available, most overnighters would go for a £10 basic stay with no fripperies over a £30 stay that includes a bar, some entertainment (whatever that is) and an EHU provided by a fleet of generators. Just my opinion, no financial statements or sneaky meanings. Hope you're getting plenty of sun, perhaps a little too much ;-) Oh, I nearly forgot.....thank you Frank ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Interesting to note that "gocro", after starting a thread that obviously had the potential to cause disagreement, then kept a very low profile.... Naughty!...... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 bolero boy - 2014-01-14 5:49 PM In my opinion, I think £30 for a night in a carpark, especially one where I won't be using the (IMO) unnecessary, extra facilities is a bit of a rip-off. In my opinion, I think that, should the choice be available, most overnighters would go for a £10 basic stay with no fripperies over a £30 stay that includes a bar, some entertainment (whatever that is) and an EHU provided by a fleet of generators. The last time we towed a caravan we always managed very well on 12 volt and gas, but I kinda get the impression that many of today's tuggers are unable to live without their umbilical cord in place, so being the CC one would reasonably expect all ehu pitches. It must be an interesting logistical and cabling exercise and maybe there will be a quiet area for non ehu folk to park in - just don't expect to pay less!! Summer Outdoor shows are better for us as we get a long weekend for around £50 and provided we pick the dry ones they can be quite relaxing events chatting and socialising - and they do go quiet after 11.00 pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 pepe63 - 2014-01-14 5:59 PM Interesting to note that "gocro", after starting a thread that obviously had the potential to cause disagreement, then kept a very low profile.... Naughty!...... ;-) That's the sort of behaviour you expect on Chatterbox Pepe *-)..................Just what is Motorhome Matters coming to 8-)........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Tracker - 2014-01-14 6:08 PM bolero boy - 2014-01-14 5:49 PM In my opinion, I think £30 for a night in a carpark, especially one where I won't be using the (IMO) unnecessary, extra facilities is a bit of a rip-off. In my opinion, I think that, should the choice be available, most overnighters would go for a £10 basic stay with no fripperies over a £30 stay that includes a bar, some entertainment (whatever that is) and an EHU provided by a fleet of generators. The last time we towed a caravan we always managed very well on 12 volt and gas, but I kinda get the impression that many of today's tuggers are unable to live without their umbilical cord in place, so being the CC one would reasonably expect all ehu pitches. It must be an interesting logistical and cabling exercise and maybe there will be a quiet area for non ehu folk to park in - just don't expect to pay less!! Summer Outdoor shows are better for us as we get a long weekend for around £50 and provided we pick the dry ones they can be quite relaxing events chatting and socialising - and they do go quiet after 11.00 pm. Rich, I think imrightin saying that, at the NEC, its only motorhomes that are allowed to park. I've not seen any caravans parked there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 bolero boy - 2014-01-14 5:49 PM Ok, Frank, lets try and get it down to a couple of lines, shall we? In my opinion, I think £30 for a night in a carpark, especially one where I won't be using the (IMO) unnecessary, extra facilities is a bit of a rip-off. In my opinion, I think that, should the choice be available, most overnighters would go for a £10 basic stay with no fripperies over a £30 stay that includes a bar, some entertainment (whatever that is) and an EHU provided by a fleet of generators. Just my opinion, no financial statements or sneaky meanings. Hope you're getting plenty of sun, perhaps a little too much ;-) Oh, I nearly forgot.....thank you Frank ;-) Let's get it down to a couple of lines then. You've made up your mind it's a 'rip-off' and even it it were proved that the CC is losing money on providing this service you'd still consider it a rip-off! Whatever you do don't let any facts sway you! The CC has done this before so knows the demand! But it's like an expensive restaurant. you don't need to use it as you can go to McD's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 bolero boy - 2014-01-14 6:22 PM Rich, I think imrightin saying that, at the NEC, its only motorhomes that are allowed to park. I've not seen any caravans parked there. But your £30 a night does also include the cost of the 'FREE' entertainment - but again, whether you want it or not! http://www.thecaravanandcampingshow.co.uk/page.cfm/Link=34/ PS. I see that Frank is now expressing his inability to discuss anything with civility on you instead of me or Clive - aren't you the lucky chappie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Tracker - 2014-01-14 6:41 PM bolero boy - 2014-01-14 6:22 PM Rich, I think imrightin saying that, at the NEC, its only motorhomes that are allowed to park. I've not seen any caravans parked there. http://www.thecaravanandcampingshow.co.uk/page.cfm/Link=34/ PS. I see that Frank is now expressing his inability to discuss anything with civility on you instead of me or Clive - aren't you the lucky chappie. God, you just can't resist can you! Where have I been uncivil? I suggest that you look at his posts to me which have been scathing and sarcastic. But you wouldn't notice that would you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-14 6:38 PM bolero boy - 2014-01-14 5:49 PM Ok, Frank, lets try and get it down to a couple of lines, shall we? In my opinion, I think £30 for a night in a carpark, especially one where I won't be using the (IMO) unnecessary, extra facilities is a bit of a rip-off. In my opinion, I think that, should the choice be available, most overnighters would go for a £10 basic stay with no fripperies over a £30 stay that includes a bar, some entertainment (whatever that is) and an EHU provided by a fleet of generators. Just my opinion, no financial statements or sneaky meanings. Hope you're getting plenty of sun, perhaps a little too much ;-) Oh, I nearly forgot.....thank you Frank ;-) Let's get it down to a couple of lines then. You've made up your mind it's a 'rip-off' and even it it were proved that the CC is losing money on providing this service you'd still consider it a rip-off! Whatever you do don't let any facts sway you! The CC has done this before so knows the demand! But it's like an expensive restaurant. you don't need to use it as you can go to McD's. Frank, I'll try one last time. Remember, this is only an opinion and cannot be treated as gospel. IMO £30 a night in a carpark is very expensive in relation to other sites, including those with far more attractive facilities than a generator outside your door. The thing is, the 'demand' is there as many other local sites and CL/CS are booked. With this pent up demand, the CC are able to charge effectively whatever they like. Adding entertainment, a bar etc softens the blow for those who have to take Hobson's choice. That still doesn't make it good value. I still think its not necessary and would be so bold as to suggest that, if a lesser/cheaper option was the on Y one available, this would be taken by the same users of the current arrangement. Just an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-14 6:51 PM God, you just can't resist can you! Where have I been uncivil? I suggest that you look at his posts to me which have been scathing and sarcastic. Please do not use the Lord's name in vain as it can cause offense to people with religious beliefs. I refer you to section 15.4 of the acceptable use policy. Thank you. Your own ego would never allow you to recognise, let alone acknowledge your own perpetual lack of civility when posting in almost everything you have written since the day you joined this forum and all your various reincarnations since. That in itself would not be so bad had you anything worthwhile or helpful to others to contribute, but it is always so predictably negative, bombastic and boring from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Tracker - 2014-01-14 7:01 PM Had Enough - 2014-01-14 6:51 PM God, you just can't resist can you! Where have I been uncivil? I suggest that you look at his posts to me which have been scathing and sarcastic. Please do not use the Lord's name in vain as it can cause offense to people with religious beliefs. Thank you. Your own ego would never allow you to recognise, let alone acknowledge your own perpetual lack of civility when posting in almost everything you have written since the day you joined this forum and all your various reincarnations since. That in itself would not be so bad had you anything worthwhile or helpful to others to contribute, but it is always so predictably negative, bombastic and boring from you. I'm wetting myself with laughter as one of the most reviled members of this forum has ago at me! Shall we have a list of the people who've pleaded with you to stop your snide and nasty ways? Why do you do it? Why did you feel the need to needle once again? You can't help it that's why! Now go away and stop stirring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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