pepe63xnotuse Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Hi all Not a MH related query but here goes..... I've got an aluminium framed sliding window which, at some stage,I want to stick into the side of our little Hiace "camping van".. Now, if possible I'd like to just get away with using the bonding/sealant to keep it in place and as the panel has slight "shape" to it, this bond will need to be pretty strong.. (..although I am aware that it,alone may not be enough and that I may need to use a few tidy little fasteners..not a problem, as it's not a "minter" of a van..). So..anyone with any first hand ,"real world" knowledge of which Sika I should be looking at please..? I have scoured their website and many others('til my head spins) but it seems that just going by the descriptions, a good many of their products "sound" very similar to each other?! ... I've used the 512 in the past but that was only for sticking a lightweight upvc moulding onto the roof of the MH.. I'm favouring using 252... http://www.uksealants.co.uk/sikaflex-252-structural-adhesive--p244.html But I could really do with some feedback from folk who have experience of these products via their work etc(..rather than from those who have just stuck a solar panel on their roof or from what they've "learnt" from google.. ;-) ) Thanks ;-) (Oh! I did email Sika sometime ago but I still haven't heard back yet...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 The big problem is dealing with the considerable difference in the thermal expansion of sheet steel body and aluminium frame.The difference is proportional to length and change in temperature. To accomodate this the adhesive bead has to be quite thick to allow it to flex. One idea is to lay a bead out and allow it to cure before cutting it up to make spacers. These are then embeded in the final bead to preserve the required thickness when the unit is placed. I had considerable problems with an aluminium frame in a GRP body until I used a non setting butyl sealant strip that came in a paper backed roll. Its held up for a couple of years now but there is a separate clamping arrangement so the strength of bond is not critical. One in place butyl is very clinging (better than the proverbial to a blanket) but will slowly give way to tensile stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Thanks for responding George.. So, in your view do you think that setting out to rely solely on the "bond" is a being a bit optimistic then? I was aware that, due to the slight curve in the panel, it was going to require a greater thickness of "mastic" along the top and bottom runs.... But, as I said, it's not as if I'm *fitting it into the side of a flash,40k+ VW T5, so I may just be better of by opting for using a few tidy fasteners as well, to begin with... (.*.and if I was, I wouldn't be using a "horsebox" window from ebay anyway! (lol) ) Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avensis Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Hi, I can recommend ( Henkel products ) they offer a wide range of Bonding/Sealants adhesives. Their website is excellent and easy to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 How big is the window? If the longest dimension is say only about 300mm the adhesive/sealant will only need to be 3-4mm thick at its thinnest point . the longer the window the thicker the bead needs to be to allow movement without tearing the bond. I have some ( I think from SIka) sample wood blocks with a 7mm thick bond. They readily bend through 180 degrees. If you use metal fasteners you compound any problems with electrolytic corrosion. A sealant even if not an adhesive insulates the two metals minimising corrosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Hi again... It's only about 24"W x 14"H (and it's really not that heavy either)...and I also thought that if I also put a decent sized "fillet" bead on the inside, that would help retain things further... So with that in mind(and forgetting fasteners for now)which Sika would you recommend George? Would I really need something like the 252?..or would the "stick the solar panel on" 512 be sufficient?(that's if they do it in black?) Oops! sorry avensis, I wasn't ignoring you. ;-) (..it's just that I've heard of sika...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Best ask Sika really but they both appear suitable. Working time is a bit tight if solo. Lots of masking up that gets whipped of quickly as soon as everthing is in place. Beware old stock. Some of the cheap offers may have been laying about for years and the advised shelf life unopened is 9-12 months. If you get iat a local caravan shop there is a chance to see if its date marked. Does part of the frame fit into the hole in the van. If so the hole need to be big enough to allow for expansion sat in the hot sun. ( No rush then) Some windows come with a paper template to allow for expansion if not allow a couple of mm all round and slice up some cured sealant that can be stuck on and allowed to cure in place before the main job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Thank you for responding again George... Yes, I have tried contacting Sika but as of yet, no response(..I may try again..and possibly via a different access point this time?). Most of the folk I've asked about this have said to just use the 512..and I suppose as it's used a fair bit to fasten stuff on MH roofs etc(usually, quite successfully (lol) ), if I can find it locally, in black, in date, then I may as well give it a go.... As I said at the outset, it's not really the end of the world if I have to tat about with it again after... Prior to finding this window online, we were toying getting a fancy,flush-fitting job installed..but to my mind it'd be a bit "OTT" and wouldn't look right on a van of our age/style/condition. (...But it's there as a option if I do c*ck it up! (lol) ) I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't overlooking an obviously better choice of adhesive... Thanks again. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Either Sika you've mentioned will do, as will plenty of other PU adhesive/sealants available. Sikasil SG 20 will give you more work time but initially is less 'tenacious', and might require some temporary mechanical assistance - or Bostik 70-03A hybrid, which would be my choice. To be honest we're getting a bit too technical here, any PU will achieve a decent result! What is far more relevant is the substrate you are bonding to - and I'm guessing painted steel? A primer would be a preferred option, but failing that, a light abrading and a good clean with MEK or Isopropanol would be required. Any sealant is only as good as the preparation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 globebuster - 2014-01-18 9:06 PM Either Sika you've mentioned will do, as will plenty of other PU adhesive/sealants available.../cropped/...... ...What is far more relevant is the substrate you are bonding to - and I'm guessing painted steel? A primer would be a preferred option, but failing that, a light abrading and a good clean with MEK or Isopropanol would be required. Any sealant is only as good as the preparation! Hi ..Thanks for the inputs ;-) Can I just ask, MEK and Isopropanol ?... is that what I'd get if I just looked for "panel wipe"..? :-S Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 A panel wipe will do nicely Pepe - or the wife's nail varnish remover! You seem to have a good grasp of the situation, if the window frame is anodised then some priming/keying is necessary. Avoid Turps or Meths though - unless you have a dash of lime with it ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 pepe63 Sikaflex-512 Caravan is only available in white, so (if you want a black adhesive) that won’t be suitable. Specification-wise, the black-colour SIKA product closest to 512 Caravan seems to be Sikaflex-552 but - as globemaster advises - there are alternatives (and alternative manufacturers). As avensis mentioned earlier, Loctite/Henkel market similar products to SIKA (though these may prove trickier to obtain in the UK). If you can’t get advice from SIKA, you could try contacting the Henkel Technical Centre as I’ve found them helpful in the past. http://www.loctite.co.uk/contact-services-4080.htm (My experience of seeking technical advice from organisations is that it can be unproductive using e-mail. It's often much better to speak to a person directly by phone.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Oh!?...Thanks for that Derek (& Globebuster )... To be honest I had just assumed, wrongly, that it'd be available in black...Oops! Someone on another forum, suggested : Carbond http://www.abbuildingproducts.co.uk/carbond-940fc-pr-62.php?c=1 It does sound okay... (..but "squidging" something like a body skirt or spoiler on, is as a bit different to bonding a window in). :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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