Guest pelmetman Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 All of which begs the question Clive ;-)...............why are people like Capcloser the OP being stitched up with compulsory enrollment in to pension schemes? :-S......... Now Franks Tories would no doubt argue that its so they can have a more comfortable retirement ;-).......... Or is about replacing an income stream for pension companies...........now that the self employed have wised up >:-)...........plus the added advantage of reducing any future pension credit bill ;-)............. So the future for todays sprogs is pretty bleak............leave school £1000's of pounds in debt............work until your 70.............and by 90 you might of paid of your student loan (lol) (lol) (lol) .......
Guest pelmetman Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 CliveH - 2014-01-21 9:41 AM pelmetman - 2014-01-21 8:51 AM Interesting Clive ;-)...............so my £34,000 private pension pot paying me £150 ish a month will pay back in less than 19 years..............so by the time I'm 74 I'll be drawing from those who didn't get to use up their pot of dosh :-S.......................makes yer think don't it :-| .......... Yes it does dave - and sadly if you and your good lady die before you reach age 74 your remaining pot will go to someone else's annuity. Gives you a warm glow of humanity does it not ? Glad I hedged my bets and took it at 55 ;-)..................hopefully my cheap wine and pork pie habit won't do fer me before 74 :-( ................
Tracker Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 CliveH - 2014-01-21 9:41 AM Yes it does dave - and sadly if you and your good lady die before you reach age 74 your remaining pot will go to someone else's annuity. Really Clive? I always thought the unpaid pot went back to the annuity provider under the clause in the contract headed - luvly jubbly! Bearing in mind the provider made a profit over and above the growth applied to your fund in all the years before you start to draw the annuity, and will in all probability continue to obtain growth from the balance of the fund whilst they are paying you, I suspect that in reality the true fund will be in credit for a great deal longer than the headline figures suggest?
CliveH Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Well the truth is Tracker that a bit of both apply. Annuities give you a guarantee that they will pay you for the rest of your life - which is VERY good indeed if you live a long life! But to secure that guarantee they have to invest in Gilts and Gilt yields - like interest rates are at an all time low. Plus we are all living longer and the medics plan to get us to live longer still! - so that Guarantee that annuities offer starts to get put under a fair bit of pressure. The "Cross Subsidy" is how those who die early subsidise those who live longer - this is a brief description from Wiki:= "Those who live longer than the mean lifespan of an annuity population are effectively subsidised by those who die earlier and the insurance company usually assumes the risk of making this work based on actuarial assumptions. This is known as a "cross subsidy". An individual may therefore suffer a "mortality loss" or "mortality gain" based on when they actually die. This is a risk they take on board in exchange for a guaranteed income for the rest of their (uncertain) lives." And a good data sheet from an Annuity Provider is:- http://www.mgmadviser.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/73-140-11.12-Power-of-mortality-cross-subsidy.pdf But this does include a lot of info on Investment backed annuities which are not for everyone - as indeed neither is Drawdown, So a more generic description is :- http://www.pensionchoices.com/public/post/what-is-mortality-cross-subsidy-17.asp
capcloser Posted January 21, 2014 Author Posted January 21, 2014 Truth is i dont want to join this scheme and i do feel i am being forced to,i was quite happy with the way i am saving now,and we tend to treat the isa as untouchable ,some posters say that money you can get hold of will inevitably get spent but that doesnt have to be the case if you are careful,fact the £6500 we have just spent on pick up came entirely from our current accounts,ok we cant top up the isa this year but we havent touched the savings,we always keep a bit of mad money,whats the point of working if you cant have a treat now and again? Is it a case of going without now so you can have it later? I dont know i think i will carry saving what i can for now and worry about the future when it gets here,the way we are going we should have a decent sum between us to see us through our older years,and i am 6 yrs older than partner so maybe its his problem more than mine lol >:-)
Guest Had Enough Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 CliveH - 2014-01-21 8:27 AM Frank I covered the advantages of Salary Sacrifice on the 19th at 0919 hrs - you obviously did not read or understand it and so I repeated the info the following day after you had "caught up" No Clive, you're the one who hadn't caught up just like when it took you ages to understand Dave's request that you don't consider the tax relief and only consider the payments SHE made! And as I said, anyone with half a brain and a bit of commonsense would have realised, reading Dave's posts, that here is a man who has done his research. But oh no! Not CliveH the great IFA, he knows better, Dave's wife couldn't possibly have recouped her money in eleven years! well, she did and I hope you've managed to wipe the egg of your face! Yesterday morning I posted at about 8.00 am and said 'let's start again and gave you an example of non-contributory pension payments to my staff. For ease of calculation (and I made this clear) I quoted employee's NI at 10%. You gleefully and insultingly picked me up on this, despite me telling you it was a rough guide only. So I redid the calculation using 12%. You then hadn't caught up and thought I was referring to a post the day before and went of on one of your insulting rants accusing me of not knowing what day it was and needing help. Egg on face time again Clive! Throughout this entire episode you have been unable to respond civilly and have constantly denigrated my business abilities because you seem to think that I should know everything about everything. I now realise that this is because you never succeeded in growing beyond a one-man-band working from home and simply can't grasp the concept of delegation and concentrating on what you're good at and having others do the rest. As an example I know nothing about the latest maternity/paternity leave rules, why should I? I have a general manager who is expert in these things and does all the hiring, firing, staff appraisals etc. As I said, during this entire thread you have done nothing but make nasty and snide remarks about my business abilities so I make no apology for what's coming next. You deserve it your pompous, overblown miserable failure. Our career paths are similar. I was a sales rep for a large camera manufacturer and decided to take a gamble and go into business for myself. I started with one shop, a second mortgage and have gradually, through good management and concentrating on what I'm good at, built it up to ten shops and fifty staff. And this in a trade where my major competitors couldn't cut it and have folded, Jacobs, Jessops and many more. We are the only firm in our trade that's expanded and have just invested £450K in our new superb store in Liverpool. You too were a salesman, for good ol' Equitable Life I think, flogging pensions to the people you're now telling should be buying ISAs! You took the decision to become an IFA - good for you. You started off as a one-man-band working from home. When you packed it in what were you Clive, a one-man-band working from home! And you have the gall to continually insult my business abilities. The end result Clive is that I've been a business success and you've been a relative failure! And this ISA or pension argument illustrates the blinkered approach that you have and your inability to think out of your specialist little box. Let's take two people. Bill retires at 65 with a pension pot of say £200K - he can expect a 5% annuity, say £10K a year. A sum that will enable him to have a comfortable retirement. And he knows that he'll have a pension for the rest of his life. Now Bob has taken the advice of the people recommending ISAs and retires at 65 with £200K in them. The interest although tax free will be tiny. So Clive, how much does he draw each year? Does he think "In this day and age I may well live another thirty years, so I'd better only draw £6K a year plus the interest? Then of course in 15 years he discovers he's dying and regrets not drawing more and having a good time! Or does he think, "I may only live 15 years, so I'll draw £13K a year plus the interest and have a good time?" Of course he then ends up living to 95 and having no income apart from his state pension. So how does someone who's taken your advice decide how much to deplete his ISA pot each year? This will be my last post in this thread. You're the worst kind of nasty pompous idiot. You may well know all the rules from your ISA's handbook but your native intelligence is sadly lacking and as for your business skills.................................. 10 shops, fifty staff, £1.6 million balance sheet and that will grow with the next results. One man band IFA in a small town in Hampshire! Don't you dare compare our business skills you nasty, insulting prat!
Guest pelmetman Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-21 11:17 AM 10 shops, fifty staff, £1.6 million balance sheet and that will grow with the next results. One man band IFA in a small town in Hampshire! Don't you dare compare our business skills you nasty, insulting prat! Sussed it ;-).................HE stands for HUGE EGO (lol)................from where I'm sitting I can see who the insulting prat is Frank................along with quite a few other forumites I suspect *-)
Guest pelmetman Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 capcloser - 2014-01-21 10:54 AM i am 6 yrs older than partner so maybe its his problem more than mine lol >:-) You're like my Mrs then Cap ;-)..............you've got a toy boy to :D.....
CliveH Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-01-21 11:45 AM Had Enough - 2014-01-21 11:17 AM 10 shops, fifty staff, £1.6 million balance sheet and that will grow with the next results. One man band IFA in a small town in Hampshire! Don't you dare compare our business skills you nasty, insulting prat! Sussed it ;-).................HE stands for HUGE EGO (lol)................from where I'm sitting I can see who the insulting prat is Frank................along with quite a few other forumites I suspect *-) That just about sums it up! But sadly Frank still does not understand! :-S He says:- “For ease of calculation (and I made this clear) I quoted employee's NI at 10%. You gleefully and insultingly picked me up on this, despite me telling you it was a rough guide only.” What makes me laugh is that far from “insultingly and gleefully” picking Huge Ego up on this – what I actually pointed out was that with employee pension contributions they pay NIC on the pension contributions – Huge Ego wrongly thought they were deducted in the same way as the Income tax. The HMRC website us quite clear on this. If Huge Ego wants to pick a fight with anyone I hope he has a go at them – I would be first in line to hold his coat!!! What I did query was Franks use of the 10% figure because I did wonder if he was getting confused with Salary Sacrifice – because with Salary Sacrifice the NIC “kicker” over the Upper Earnings Limit reduces from 12% to 2% in line with the NIC rates - and so I assumed that Frank was using the difference – 10% - in his “rough guide” but as I had to point out, he was using it wrongly in any case. But I think Franks latest post sums up where we all are on this. I think its tone content and attitude speaks volumes.
CliveH Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Frank You ask "Now Bob has taken the advice of the people recommending ISAs and retires at 65 with £200K in them. The interest although tax free will be tiny. So Clive, how much does he draw each year?" How many time do I have to say that I am NOT talking about Cash ISA; but Investment ISA's Frank - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE -look at this one single fund that is just one of my regular funds I use for both ISA and Pension portfolios:- http://www.trustnet.com/Tools/PDFViewer.aspx?url=%2fFactsheets%2fFundFactsheetPDF.aspx%3ffundCode%3dMGSHI%26univ%3dU Have a look at the discrete performance on this Fixed Interest Sector fund for each year since 2009. I cite them here:- 2009 - 18.2% 2010 - 7.1% 2011 - 8.9% 2012 - 11.3% 2013 - minus (0.3%) YTD in 2014 - 2.6% (for about half of January alone. So here if someone had £200K in ISA's and wanted 5% income each year, then the capital in the ISA's would grow each year by the above minus the 5% income taken So that is:- 2009 - 18.2% less 5% income taken = 13.2% growth added to ISA 2010 - 7.1% = 2.1% 2011 - 8.9% = 3.9% 2012 - 11.3% = 6.3% 2013 - minus (0.3%) = a loss of (5.3%) YTD in 2014 - 2.6% (for about half of January alone.) So far from the poor results you try to infer - even with the poor performance of last year - not only is the ISA holder receiving his 5% income but his ISA pot has GROWN considerably! Now PLEASE Frank - leave the attitude behind and try to see the bigger picture.
capcloser Posted January 21, 2014 Author Posted January 21, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-01-21 11:48 AM capcloser - 2014-01-21 10:54 AM i am 6 yrs older than partner so maybe its his problem more than mine lol >:-) You're like my Mrs then Cap ;-)..............you've got a toy boy to :D..... i have to make sure i' m not eating or drinking when i read your posts dave cos one of these days i'm gonna choke,partner will love that when he eventually gets up(on nites) lol >:-) Oh and a bit strong HA,am starting to get the feeling you and Clive are not best mates lol *-)
teflon2 Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I don't usually jump in when Clive and hadenough get stuck in but Jessops are still alive and doing rather well since the guy from dragons den took over and cut off all the dead wood. How do I know this, my granddaughter 16years old part time while attending college took sales of over £5,000 in best month and regularly takes over £2,000 working 2 half days and Saturday and this is selling the small bits and bobs as the assistant manager grabs the big SLR sales. John 8-)
Guest Had Enough Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 teflon2 - 2014-01-21 7:42 PM I don't usually jump in when Clive and hadenough get stuck in but Jessops are still alive and doing rather well since the guy from dragons den took over and cut off all the dead wood. How do I know this, my granddaughter 16years old part time while attending college took sales of over £5,000 in best month and regularly takes over £2,000 working 2 half days and Saturday and this is selling the small bits and bobs as the assistant manager grabs the big SLR sales. John 8-) I'm not sure how you know that Jessops is doing 'rather well' as they haven't published any results yet. These are the facts: Jessops went bust owing £160 million pounds. They had nearly 200 shops, down from over 300 at one point. Peter Jones bought just the name and he also bought a lot of stock from the liquidator at 20p in the pound I believe. The stock was mainly accessories but there was a lot of it as there were nearly 200 shops. Most of the top end gear was reclaimed by the manufacturers under the retention of title clause in their terms of trading. Peter Jones has a slight commercial advantage in that he has a lot of the 'haberdashery' of the trade (bags, tripod and other widgets) at low prices, but they won't last for ever. He has only reopened 28 of the original branches. He claimed he'd open 35 but the expansion seems to have stalled! Make of that what you will! But here's an interesting fact. We were approached by the owner of Jessops' Liverpool store. He asked us if we'd like to take it over as he'd heard we had a good reputation. Peter Jones tried to get the shop for himself but the landlord preferred my little firm. Now why is that you may ask? Well, the landlord had already been screwed by the original Jessops which owed him rent. Peter Jones I believe, thinking he could also screw the landlord, demanded an 18 month break clause in the lease, hardly a sign of huge confidence in his new firm. My firm was able to provide references from 8 landlords who could cite that we have never missed a single rental payment or even been late in paying! We were happy to have a three year break clause. So we got the shop, spent a lot of money on refitting it as the Jessops' fittings were cheap and nasty, put in a vast amount of top brand stock and in its first year it will do £2 million pounds! And the landlord gave us the first year rent-free saving us £70K! Peter Jones is not happy! So yes, Jessops, a brand new company with no connection to the original one, is trading, but no one knows how they are doing, whether they're profitable or not as we haven't had the first year's results. My own opinion is that he's made big mistake and that it's a vanity purchase. If it doesn't work he'll have no compunction about closing it down as fast as he set it up! It's a very tough and competitive business. The Internet is a big threat and it takes very specialised and experienced marketing to make it succeed. We're doing very well because we've survived and have the market to ourselves, as in every town we're in we are the only true specialist photo dealer. We're in it because we're in it and have been for years and we have shops with lease commitments and lots of staff. And we're still profitable but if I wanted to start a new business tomorrow I doubt it would be photo retailing! I would choose a trade that isn't affected by the Internet, such as restaurants. I cannot understand Peter Jones' logic and I won't be buying shares in his company if ever he floats it!
RogerC Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 After all this intense, detailed argument and counter argument which is now descending into the slinging of insults and becoming a 'willy waving competition' about whose business is better than whose (well it is by one contributor but then he's always been top dog in business hasn't he?) I've come to the following conclusion: Pensions and annuities are a minefield and if I had a bank balance as massive as a certain posters ego both myself and my good lady could retire. Come to think of it if my 'pot of pennies' was as big as his ego I could afford for my kids to retire as well. :-)
Guest Had Enough Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 RogerC - 2014-01-21 11:22 PMAfter all this intense, detailed argument and counter argument which is now descending into the slinging of insults and becoming a 'willy waving competition' about whose business is better than whose (well it is by one contributor but then he's always been top dog in business hasn't he?) I've come to the following conclusion: Pensions and annuities are a minefield and if I had a bank balance as massive as a certain posters ego both myself and my good lady could retire. Come to think of it if my 'pot of pennies' was as big as his ego I could afford for my kids to retire as well. :-) Regrettably, you miss the point! CliveH has spend months telling me that I know nothing about business and if you'd really read this thread you see the best examples of his insults. He continually boasts about how he's 'teaching' me about business!Well, and I make no apology for repeating it - we both started off as salesmen and we both made the decision to work for ourselves.I built a business to what it is now and still expanding. CliveH stared as a one-man-band IFA working from home and ended as a one-man-band IFA working from home. Although to read his posts on here you'd think he was Hargreaves-Lansdown! CliveH tells me that I don't know about business and that he can teach me! Can anyone else see the joke here?I don't have a big ego. In fact when I see some of my friends I don't think I've done too well. By any standards I have a little firm, but' it's a damn sight bigger than CkiveH's ever was!If you really want to see a massive ego, look at CliveH. A man who thinks he can teach me about business whilst he's been a total failure. A man who comes on here bragging about his firm and its back room techies. It's a tiny IFA practice in a tiny town and they haven't even made him a director!I'm sorry to prolong this but I stated what I did after a long thread of being told that I know nothing about business by a man who has proved that he isn't capable of building a business.There is one very big ego on here and it isn't me!
CliveH Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Yes Frank - we can all see that whereas I think i can say with considerable justification that your knowledge of things financial leaves you vulnerable to make mistakes, you in contrast have to resort to the Ad Hom's of your post above. I have answered all of your questions - not least the last one above about the income available from a £200K ISA portfolio compared to a £200K pension pot. The percentages from the M&G Corporate Bond fund are such that "Bob" would have circa £221K in his ISA AND have had £50K income at £10K a year. In contrast "Bob" would have had to pay the £200K into an annuity to get the £10K gross income and by so doing gives up access to the capital. So - after five years - if "Bob" dies - with the ISA his loved ones get the £221K Whereas with the pension Bobs loved ones get nothing. You demand responses from others and if you do not agree with the answers - this to you is abuse that you take personally. And yet when people ask you to respond - you ignore it if the answer you would have to give is not to your liking. Frank - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE accept that my comments re your relative abilities are purely focussed on your understanding of things financial - which you have already admitted to knowing little about. You consistently manage to misinterpret and misunderstand fairly basic financial facts. The inclusion of an Employee's NIC as pension contribution tax relief was probably the most dramatic. I cannot be held responsible for your knowledge gaps - and it is unfair of you to infer that just because I have the audacity to point out your lack of knowledge that I am saying you are not a good businessman. What I am saying - and I will say again - is that your behaviour on this Forum is not typical in any way shape or form to the sort of behaviour I have experienced from other successful people. And I have dealt with a great deal of successful people over the 35 years of business. I will not respond anymore to your personal attacks upon me - I think it best to simply allow others to make up their own minds. Besides - the figures and the links I have provided make the points and are from independent verifiable sources - such as HMRC website. I am what I say I am - no more no less - I am happy with that - I hope you manage to find the same degree of happiness in life that I have. I am frankly at a loss as to why someone who is supposed to be as successful as you say you are - acts as you do on a Forum such as this 8-)
Guest Had Enough Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 And as I said, being a one-man-band you've never really understood the concept of concentrating on what you're good at and farming out the other stuff. That's why you are what you are and I am what I am. I suspect that you're a very tiny fish in your pond Clive and you need this site to boost your fragile ego! That's certainly the impression you give with your exaggerated posturing about you and your firm. I think you're a sad little man. Why else would an IFA continually post complex articles (always from the 'pinks' as you never fail to tell us) to an audience of about ten people, most of whom are not interested in investing or matters financial? Very odd that! You seem to need this site Clive and that's even sadder. We're all motorhomers except you! We're all here to learn and give advice - why are you here? Don't bother answering - we all know. It's to boost the membership "I'm CliveH and I'm a very important and big time financial expert Society". Very, very sad.
Guest pelmetman Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-22 7:54 AM I don't have a big ego. In fact when I see some of my friends I don't think I've done too well. By any standards I have a little firm, but' it's a damn sight bigger than CkiveH's ever was! Ergo the ego ;-)...............It was ever thus for those blessed with the capitalist psychic *-)............ I can now see why socialism is necessary 8-)...............although Labour appear to be little more than Conservatives with a small "C"............ Vote UKIP :-D
vindiboy Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Is it any wonder that ordinary Joe has no faith in Pension schemes and financial advisers when the likes of you lot seem to have made a career out of it all and still can,t agree on what is right and wrong but just want to get one over each other,charge extortinate rates for often flawed advice and manage to loose thousands for poor Joe who trusted your advice etc,we often read of how peoples pensions dreams have crashed because of X Y Z. I thank my stars that I was able to retire 14 years ago at 55 and still live a very comfortable life from my own efforts with no advice from the likes of you lot..
CliveH Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-22 9:08 AM And as I said, being a one-man-band you've never really understood the concept of concentrating on what you're good at and farming out the other stuff. That's why you are what you are and I am what I am. I suspect that you're a very tiny fish in your pond Clive and you need this site to boost your fragile ego! That's certainly the impression you give with your exaggerated posturing about you and your firm. I think you're a sad little man. Why else would an IFA continually post complex articles (always from the 'pinks' as you never fail to tell us) to an audience of about ten people, most of whom are not interested in investing or matters financial? Very odd that! You seem to need this site Clive and that's even sadder. We're all motorhomers except you! We're all here to learn and give advice - why are you here? Don't bother answering - we all know. It's to boost the membership "I'm CliveH and I'm a very important and big time financial expert Society". Very, very sad. I do not "need" anything Frank - I am now semi retired And I do not have a MH - yet! But I wonder if you would like to respond to the ISA vs Pension info I gave you - you did ask after all!
Guest Had Enough Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-01-22 9:10 AM Had Enough - 2014-01-22 7:54 AM I don't have a big ego. In fact when I see some of my friends I don't think I've done too well. By any standards I have a little firm, but' it's a damn sight bigger than CkiveH's ever was! Ergo the ego ;-)...............It was ever thus for those blessed with the capitalist psychic *-)............ I can now see why socialism is necessary 8-)...............although Labour appear to be little more than Conservatives with a small "C"............ Vote UKIP :-D You can always tell a failed capitalist. It's the system guv, it wasn't my fault! But you're right, Socialism is the way. Look at the standard of living in the old USSR, DDR. Now Cuba and North Korea are great examples. You'd fit in well in a socialist society where ambition and entrepreneurial get-up-and go are frowned upon! You'd be the commissar of your Soviet-Brutal tenement block in no time!
Guest Had Enough Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 vindiboy - 2014-01-22 9:10 AM Is it any wonder that ordinary Joe has no faith in Pension schemes and financial advisers when the likes of you lot seem to have made a career out of it all and still can,t agree on what is right and wrong but just want to get one over each other,charge extortinate rates for often flawed advice and manage to loose thousands for poor Joe who trusted your advice etc,we often read of how peoples pensions dreams have crashed because of X Y Z. I thank my stars that I was able to retire 14 years ago at 55 and still live a very comfortable life from my own efforts with no advice from the likes of you lot.. Amen to that! ;-)
CliveH Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 vindiboy - 2014-01-22 9:10 AM Is it any wonder that ordinary Joe has no faith in Pension schemes and financial advisers when the likes of you lot seem to have made a career out of it all and still can,t agree on what is right and wrong but just want to get one over each other,charge extortinate rates for often flawed advice and manage to loose thousands for poor Joe who trusted your advice etc,we often read of how peoples pensions dreams have crashed because of X Y Z. I thank my stars that I was able to retire 14 years ago at 55 and still live a very comfortable life from my own efforts with no advice from the likes of you lot.. Oh yeah - its all the IFA's fault - nothing to do with Government meddling, Tax increases, greedy banks and decades of "old boy network" Regulators that are not worthy of the name.
CliveH Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-22 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2014-01-22 9:10 AM Had Enough - 2014-01-22 7:54 AM I don't have a big ego. In fact when I see some of my friends I don't think I've done too well. By any standards I have a little firm, but' it's a damn sight bigger than CkiveH's ever was! Ergo the ego ;-)...............It was ever thus for those blessed with the capitalist psychic *-)............ I can now see why socialism is necessary 8-)...............although Labour appear to be little more than Conservatives with a small "C"............ Vote UKIP :-D You can always tell a failed capitalist. It's the system guv, it wasn't my fault! But you're right, Socialism is the way. Look at the standard of living in the old USSR, DDR. Now Cuba and North Korea are great examples. You'd fit in well in a socialist society where ambition and entrepreneurial get-up-and go are frowned upon! You'd be the commissar of your Soviet-Brutal tenement block in no time! Well that's the first time I have seen a UKIP supporter labelled a Socialist. (lol)
Guest Had Enough Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 CliveH - 2014-01-22 9:19 AM But I wonder if you would like to respond to the ISA vs Pension info I gave you - you did ask after all! Sorry Clive, you've bored me to tears and I no longer discus financial matters with you. You seem to have trouble following my posts anyway. Dave225 and Tracker seem to be the real experts on here, combining as they do not just financial expertise but common sense and a knowledge of people and their behaviour. Let them all build up ISA s for their retirement, they won't be tempted to spend them, of course they won't. We all know how responsible our fellow creatures are! (lol) Now go away and read all those 'pinks'. Surely it's time for another thread that won't get a single response! (lol) (lol) (lol)
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