CliveH Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Yes of course Frank - we believe you - we really do! (lol)
Guest Had Enough Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 CliveH - 2014-01-22 9:25 AM Had Enough - 2014-01-22 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2014-01-22 9:10 AM Had Enough - 2014-01-22 7:54 AM I don't have a big ego. In fact when I see some of my friends I don't think I've done too well. By any standards I have a little firm, but' it's a damn sight bigger than CkiveH's ever was! Ergo the ego ;-)...............It was ever thus for those blessed with the capitalist psychic *-)............ I can now see why socialism is necessary 8-)...............although Labour appear to be little more than Conservatives with a small "C"............ Vote UKIP :-D You can always tell a failed capitalist. It's the system guv, it wasn't my fault! But you're right, Socialism is the way. Look at the standard of living in the old USSR, DDR. Now Cuba and North Korea are great examples. You'd fit in well in a socialist society where ambition and entrepreneurial get-up-and go are frowned upon! You'd be the commissar of your Soviet-Brutal tenement block in no time! Well that's the first time I have seen a UKIP supporter labelled a Socialist. (lol) You must have missed this bit then: '...It was ever thus for those blessed with the capitalist psychic ............ I can now see why socialism is necessary..' But we know you have problems following the argument don't we?
Guest Had Enough Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 CliveH - 2014-01-22 9:29 AM Yes of course Frank - we believe you - we really do! (lol) One thing we can guarantee Clive, nobody believes you lot anymore! Now go away and read some 'pinks' that's a good little chap.
CliveH Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-22 9:31 AM CliveH - 2014-01-22 9:25 AM Had Enough - 2014-01-22 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2014-01-22 9:10 AM Had Enough - 2014-01-22 7:54 AM I don't have a big ego. In fact when I see some of my friends I don't think I've done too well. By any standards I have a little firm, but' it's a damn sight bigger than CkiveH's ever was! Ergo the ego ;-)...............It was ever thus for those blessed with the capitalist psychic *-)............ I can now see why socialism is necessary 8-)...............although Labour appear to be little more than Conservatives with a small "C"............ Vote UKIP :-D You can always tell a failed capitalist. It's the system guv, it wasn't my fault! But you're right, Socialism is the way. Look at the standard of living in the old USSR, DDR. Now Cuba and North Korea are great examples. You'd fit in well in a socialist society where ambition and entrepreneurial get-up-and go are frowned upon! You'd be the commissar of your Soviet-Brutal tenement block in no time! Well that's the first time I have seen a UKIP supporter labelled a Socialist. (lol) You must have missed this bit then: '...It was ever thus for those blessed with the capitalist psychic ............ I can now see why socialism is necessary..' But we know you have problems following the argument don't we. Not blessed an appreciation of irony either then Frank ! *-) Ergo the ego ;-)...............It was ever thus for those blessed with the capitalist psychic *-)............ I can now see why socialism is necessary 8-)...............although Labour appear to be little more than Conservatives with a small "C"............ Vote UKIP :-D
Tracker Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-22 9:27 AM Dave225 and Tracker seem to be the real experts on here, combining as they do not just financial expertise but common sense and a knowledge of people and their behaviour. Well That's the nicest thing - in fact the only nice thing - you've ever said about me Frank - thanks indeed! Are you mellowing in your dotage perchance! But I have to disagree about my financial expertise. Back in the 80s I did know quite a lot about pensions as they then were, with a basic but broad spread about other matters financial. However that was then and this now and the rules and practical applications have all changed dramatically and up to date expertise is now needed more than ever. That said, and maybe I am a bit old fashioned, but I still believe the principles for a healthy and well funded old age rest on the same needs to secure and pay for your own home, then to build up an income to supplement the state pension and then to look to build capital as best you can to pay for those essentials like new carpets, the latest TV, new cars, new vans, holidays etc and all the trappings that make living so much more fun than just existing. If that means sacrifices in the working years - well you don't get 'owt for nowt in this life - unless you win the lottery! That is a purely personal view based on a mere lifetime (to date) of experience and I appreciate that not everyone is concerned about their own future enough to do something about it - but they will at least be free to bore everyone else by moaning about it and blaming everyone else and the 'system' if they don't!
Guest Had Enough Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 CliveH - 2014-01-22 9:35 AM Not blessed an appreciation of irony either then Frank ! *-) You're not bright enough to do irony. Go away and read your pinks for God's sake!
Guest pelmetman Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-22 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2014-01-22 9:10 AM Had Enough - 2014-01-22 7:54 AM I don't have a big ego. In fact when I see some of my friends I don't think I've done too well. By any standards I have a little firm, but' it's a damn sight bigger than CkiveH's ever was! Ergo the ego ;-)...............It was ever thus for those blessed with the capitalist psychic *-)............ I can now see why socialism is necessary 8-)...............although Labour appear to be little more than Conservatives with a small "C"............ Vote UKIP :-D You can always tell a failed capitalist. It's the system guv, it wasn't my fault! But you're right, Socialism is the way. Look at the standard of living in the old USSR, DDR. Now Cuba and North Korea are great examples. You'd fit in well in a socialist society where ambition and entrepreneurial get-up-and go are frowned upon! You'd be the commissar of your Soviet-Brutal tenement block in no time! Correct me if I'm wrong Frank ;-)...............but has rampant capitalism not just caused the first depression since the 30's?................and is the income gap between the rich and the poor not widening in the UK?....... Progress eh? *-)
Guest Had Enough Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-01-22 9:44 AM Correct me if I'm wrong Frank ;-)...............but has rampant capitalism not just caused the first depression since the 30's?................and is the income gap between the rich and the poor not widening in the UK?....... Progress eh? *-) I'll explain this simply to you. The poorest people in the western capitalist democracies are wealthier and healthier than any of the citizens of the socialist countries that I mentioned. Name me one innovative industry spawned by the USSR. Computers, no. Cars, no. Consumer electronics, no. If it wasn't for its mineral wealth Russia would be a third world country. Which some of it is I promise you. Didn't you read about all those people risking death to escape from horrible capitalist Western Germany to get to the riches of the East? Oops, sorry, I got that the wrong way round. Whilst you're sitting around in your encampment on Camping Full English Breakfast and Watney's Red Barrel campsite, why don't you try reading a bit of history? As I said, just like evangelical ex-smokers, you can always tell a failed capitalist. The trouble with the likes of you is that you'd rather everyone was equally poor rather than some being very rich and the rest having what, by any world standards, is a good standard of living. Your jealousy of successful and intelligent people beams from you like a lighthouse!
Tracker Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-01-22 9:44 AM Correct me if I'm wrong Frank ;-)...............but has rampant capitalism not just caused the first depression since the 30's?................and is the income gap between the rich and the poor not widening in the UK?....... Progress eh? *-) Not quite Dave - without capitalism you would not own your own home, cars, van etc and neither would you have the freedom to debate both systems whilst sitting in the warm sunshine of Southern Spain - so it can't all be that bad - can it? Capitalism has not failed - what has failed is the ongoing successive international governmental failure to control and regulate the excesses of one of the basic traits of the human being - personal, leading to corporate greed. Money is power and too much money brings too much power and too much corruption. You may like to believe that in a perfect world all is fair under socialism which really is just a euphemism for communism - where in theory all brothers are equal - but in reality many brothers are a lot less equal than others and many brothers, especially party members are a lot more equal than their brethren! With proper regulation it is the wealthy few that pay the most in taxation in all it's various forms and it is that taxation which makes even the worst off in the UK much better off than in any socialist country.
Guest pelmetman Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-22 9:57 AM Your jealousy of successful and intelligent people beams from you like a lighthouse! I fear you confuse jealousy with contempt Frank ;-)........................but that's typical of your dyed in the wool Tory ............where normal people see greed............you see envy *-).......... Hence we need something fairer than the Tories...........less incompetent than Labour........ ;-) I have seen the light :-> Vote UKIP :-D PS .....I'm going outside now 8-)...................I might be sometime :-S............. As the showers are a bit of a walk ;-)
CliveH Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-01-22 9:40 AM CliveH - 2014-01-22 9:35 AM Not blessed an appreciation of irony either then Frank ! *-) You're not bright enough to do irony. Go away and read your pinks for God's sake! Well you know me Frank! Here is the morning paper summary from .........................one of the "pinks"! ........................ Morning papers: Report calls for mandatory pension saving The morning headlines brought to you by FTAdviser: 22 January 2014. By Michael Trudeau | Published 08:54 | 0 comments Recommend 0 Print this article Email this article Tweet Facebook Linkedin Think tank The Policy Exchange has called for pensions to become mandatory after finding that Britains are only saving one sixth of what they need to earn a living income in retirement, the Daily Mail reports. The Policy Exchange found the average pension pot is £36,000, enough to earn only £1,340 per year in retirement. In contrast, workers who want to earn £16,200 a year would have to put away £240,000. UK banks call for closer EU ties Britain’s banks have called for closer ties to the European Union and urged the government to work harder to make the single market work, the Financial Times reports. According to the paper, the British Bankers’ Association has responded to a Treasury review speaking out against a potential split of powers between London and Brussels, saying the current balance is “broadly appropriate”. The BBA added there is an “overwhelming” case for increasing the resources given to relations with Europe, warning that the UK is significantly underrepresented in the EU. IMF upgrades UK growth forecast The International Monetary Fund has improved its forecast for growth in the UK economy, the Telegraph reports. The organisation forecast on Tuesday that Britain will grow by 2.4 per cent this year, up from the 1.9 per cent prediction in October. Mark Carney, governor of the Bank of England, received a boost from the IMF as it pledged its support for continued economic stimulus, the paper reports. Record levels of young adults living at home The number of young adults still living with their parents has increased by one quarter since 1996 owing largely to high house prices and growing youth unemployment, the Guardian reports. According to the Office for National Statistics, a total of 3.3m 20 to 34-year olds lived with their parents in 2013, the highest number since records began. \Gates predicts end to poverty Bill and Melinda Gates have predicted there could be “almost no poor countries by 2035” in an open letter, the Independent reports. He added that child mortality rates in the poorest nations are set to plummet to the same levels as 1980s UK. ......................... GOOD STUFF eh!
Symbol Owner Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-01-22 10:09 AM We need something fairer than the Tories...........less incompetent than Labour........ ;-) I have seen the light :-> Vote UKIP :-D Surely we do Dave, but its not this bunch of 'Fruitcakes'. See here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-25800285 But no doubt you will take comfort from this:- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-tops-independent-on-sunday-poll-as-the-nations-favourite-party-9069625.html Cheers! enjoy the cheap Spanish plonk! (perhaps that's why you support plonkers like Nigel Farrago?) Colin.
Guest pelmetman Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Symbol Owner - 2014-01-22 11:22 AM pelmetman - 2014-01-22 10:09 AM We need something fairer than the Tories...........less incompetent than Labour........ ;-) I have seen the light :-> Vote UKIP :-D Surely we do Dave, but its not this bunch of 'Fruitcakes'. See here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-25800285 But no doubt you will take comfort from this:- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-tops-independent-on-sunday-poll-as-the-nations-favourite-party-9069625.html Cheers! enjoy the cheap Spanish plonk! (perhaps that's why you support plonkers like Nigel Farrago?) Colin. I wondered when you'd flag up old Noah Colin ;-)..................I can't say I'm that bothered about the fruitcakes, although they do add a bit of spice :D............its more the effect they'll have on the usual suspects if they win a few seats >:-)
Dave225 Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Tracker - 2014-01-22 9:40 AM Had Enough - 2014-01-22 9:27 AM Dave225 and Tracker seem to be the real experts on here, combining as they do not just financial expertise but common sense and a knowledge of people and their behaviour. Well That's the nicest thing - in fact the only nice thing - you've ever said about me Frank - thanks indeed! Are you mellowing in your dotage perchance! But I have to disagree about my financial expertise. Back in the 80s I did know quite a lot about pensions as they then were, with a basic but broad spread about other matters financial. However that was then and this now and the rules and practical applications have all changed dramatically and up to date expertise is now needed more than ever. That said, and maybe I am a bit old fashioned, but I still believe the principles for a healthy and well funded old age rest on the same needs to secure and pay for your own home, then to build up an income to supplement the state pension and then to look to build capital as best you can to pay for those essentials like new carpets, the latest TV, new cars, new vans, holidays etc and all the trappings that make living so much more fun than just existing. If that means sacrifices in the working years - well you don't get 'owt for nowt in this life - unless you win the lottery! That is a purely personal view based on a mere lifetime (to date) of experience and I appreciate that not everyone is concerned about their own future enough to do something about it - but they will at least be free to bore everyone else by moaning about it and blaming everyone else and the 'system' if they don't! Sounds about the same for me.
Dave225 Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Having spent some time going through the recent posts on this I think I may be beginning to get some oif the drift. Clive keeps mentioning Investment Isa's which is basically meaning you buy shares or Funds under an ISA umberella whereby you do not pay any Capital Gains tax if you sell them. Any income is tax paid regardless of what you do. That is fine if you are in the position whereby you pay tax, and wish to sell more than £10500 of profit's worth per annum. Once you are retired then your requirement for paying large amounts of tax drops drastically unless.....you are a rich individual. If you are, then you are unlikely to be reading this lot of old cobblers, but supping champagne cocktails in the Caribbean. Any Investment ISA has charges which although not excessive do add up each year and you have to decide if these are justifiable. If you invest without using an ISA then apart from the Capital Gains tax aspect, everything else is the same except you do not pay the fees. All dividends are tax paid for basic rate. Again if you are in higher tax brackets you are not really part of this discussion. If you buy Funds then again there is usually a charge made annually, and maybe an initial charge, which is exempt from performance, so the Fund gets its money regardless. The manager of the Fund does not have to worry too much. Again, regarding my dear wife's case the size of the 'pot' was such that no IFA or adviser would look at it. Not worth them getting out of bed they said, unless we paid a huge fee, which negated any benefit. So we did it ourselves. Maybe we could have got a little more but we would only be talking a few pounds per annum, which as life is too short, was not relevant. Plus when we were actually doing this annuity rates were dropping each month, so time was of the essence. Clive also seems to have a bee in his bonnet re Single Life annuities. Again if we are talking a 'pot' size in his bracket then yes, it can make a difference but if it is at the small end of the scheme then no, it does not. As it takes a joint annuity up to about 15 years to catch up with a single life you have to decide your life longevity as to whether it is worth it. Yes, if I live to 110 and my wife dies tomorrow then yes, we lose some money. But Is that realistic?? But then again I have also Single Life annuities in my name,so would keep them. It balances out in the end. I have had small annuities that have been paying me happily for the last 10 years. I have not calculated whether I have passed the paying-in threshold yet, but it must be close. As the 'pot' had doubled by the time I actually decided to cash it in, I only have to recoup 50% to cover my costs. Now, as I stated again and again I am not advocating anyone go for a pension scheme based on market movements. I also am sure that many of us have had in the past decade or so umpteen 'recommendations' to do just that by 'advisers'. My point is that if you have signed up to one of these schemes in the past, then you have to live with it, and make the best return you can from it. You cannot get your money back. Yes, before Clive jumps in re the £18000 line where you can take the 'pot', as he knows this includes every single pension thing you may have and this is based on the 'market value' not what you might get and so it is relatively easy to find yourself just above the £18000 line, in which case the deal is off. If you have a small works pension from way back when, then that is added in as well. It may only pay you about £250 per annum but that is easily £5000 of 'pot' for starters. Unfortunately the Finance Industry shot itself in the foot by advertising umpteen scheme where the return was 'guaranteed' It never was in real life. The only things guaranteed were that the fees charged would be deducted every year and commision would be paid to any adviser. Your 'return' would if necessary come out of the capital and so after a number of years you fund yourself broke. Yes, Brown also 'bust' the pensions schemes with his raid, but as he keeps telling everyone the industry supported his move, so either they were incompetent, or figured out that whatever way it went, they still made their money. Sorry starting to ramble again, time for telly methinks.
candapack Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Tracker - 2014-01-22 9:40 AM Had Enough - 2014-01-22 9:27 AM Dave225 and Tracker seem to be the real experts on here, combining as they do not just financial expertise but common sense and a knowledge of people and their behaviour. Well That's the nicest thing - in fact the only nice thing - you've ever said about me Frank - thanks indeed! Are you mellowing in your dotage perchance! But I have to disagree about my financial expertise. Back in the 80s I did know quite a lot about pensions as they then were, with a basic but broad spread about other matters financial. However that was then and this now and the rules and practical applications have all changed dramatically and up to date expertise is now needed more than ever. That said, and maybe I am a bit old fashioned, but I still believe the principles for a healthy and well funded old age rest on the same needs to secure and pay for your own home, then to build up an income to supplement the state pension and then to look to build capital as best you can to pay for those essentials like new carpets, the latest TV, new cars, new vans, holidays etc and all the trappings that make living so much more fun than just existing. If that means sacrifices in the working years - well you don't get 'owt for nowt in this life - unless you win the lottery! That is a purely personal view based on a mere lifetime (to date) of experience and I appreciate that not everyone is concerned about their own future enough to do something about it - but they will at least be free to bore everyone else by moaning about it and blaming everyone else and the 'system' if they don't
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