damp

[candapack]

Completely agree - damp, what more can you say. (!)

[tonyg3nwl]

tonyg3nwl - 2014-01-22 6:14 PM

 

Sorry, cant get used to the tablet..all to easy to press wrong thing and sent a blank.

 

I wanted to say that I checked the van today and even the mirror was covered in condensation. The cheapo damp meter squealed when in contact with the wood framework of the seating. The cusions are stored in the house .

I cant see any obvious entry point, all the walls seem ok except a very small point low down at floor level, at the front junction between the cab and the coachbuilt body,on the nearside.. van is Starfire by autocruise,05 plate. I have looked inside all cupboads and left them open, no significant problems at high level.

 

I am puzzled to find the wood showing quite wet indication, and wonder if it is hygroscopic..ie absorbs water.

 

I know the weather has been excessively heavy rain for a long time now, and wonder how best to deal with the problem..I have a fan heater on in the van at the moment, but think that might aggravate the situation.

 

I dont have a cover..would that have helped.?

 

any observation please.

 

tonyg3nwl.

 

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

Don't forget, it's good ventilation that's required..

(..Having a heater belting away probably won't help much without that... :-S )

[Coachman]

I was horrified when checking with a meter last week, one part of the roof lining showed plus the cushions damp. So put our dehumidifier in and first 24 hours got nearly a gallon out next 24 only a cupful. When testing again all parts were dry with no reading at all. However one cushion had mould spots on and have tried many things but cannot get it all out, it s just small black dots here and there. I am leaving it in there for the winter period. The camper is on my drive but cannot get the sun as there is 10 ft conifers along the drive and its not until pm that the sun gets on the cab.

[Dave Newell]

Its most likely condensation at the moment due to the present climate being relatively mild and wet. Ventilation and moderate warmth will help to alleviate it but warmth and a dehumidifier will do better.

 

D.

[Rayjsj]

We have just had a very 'Damp' December and January, the moisture in the air is going to get into the van, through all the ventilation holes. The only way to stop it is :(1) keep the van heated,(2) air it every couple of days or so,(3) have a dehudmidifier going, and keep it emptied regularly .

Two of those require a power source, and will cost money, but probably not as much as having to renew all of the upholstery, because it has gone black with mould spores.

The third requires a bit of time, to have door open and allow the air to circulate, (provided it isn't raining !!).

I would wait before you start to worry about water ingress.

Ray

[happypre65]

Hi,My van is outside but i do have silver screens on the front window,without those i would have the same problem as you,i also have a low wattage heater inside, have done this for many years and never have a problem,what happens to a car windscreen when left out for one night in the winter,in the morning it is covered inside with condensation,a motorhome is he same,regards H. (lol)

[Guest Peter James]

Just been watching a TV programme about Canada. Same line of latitude (distance from the equator) as Blackpool it has wild Polar Bears and its minus 30 deg C.

Being blown over by winds coming off the sea warmed by the gulf stream makes Britain a lot milder. But its also what makes the climate so damp.

[capcloser]

Same for us we simply run a dehumidifier,leave it on all the time,when we first put it on at the beginning of december we had to empty it daily,at the moment about once a week,we live in van with two big dogs so i guess with cooking we create a lot of moisture,we also leave the bedroom cupboard doors open slightly,this time of year you are always gonna get a bit of damp,shouldnt do any harm if you keep on top of it

[DavyS]

I posted a very similar query on MHF forum. Others replied that their MHs not damp despite the weather. So I went over it with a moisture meter and found leaks along about a metre of roof joint; damp getting into the floor and extensive condensation dripping down from the overcab roof.

Suggest you do same now that you have a meter.

I personally would not use heating cos mould will not grow below 5degC; but loves warm damp!

So either use a demudifier OR (cos you cant have both) lots of ventilation - windows open a crack.

[tonyg3nwl]

Hi folks, thanks for the various comments.

 

update..went and bought a dehumidifier today, and installed it in the van. Awaiting 10 gallons of water to appear overnight...well some anyway.!!!

Also booked van in for checks next Wednesday, Mot and then damp check and inspection. Will now have to await results...watch this space.

 

tonyg3nwl.

 

ps. More rain expected overnight and tomorrow..anyone got some spare water wings?.

 

 

[granddad]

 

hi tonyg3 were have you you got it book in plz

[RogerC]

tonyg3nwl - 2014-01-23 7:04 PMHi folks, thanks for the various comments.update..went and bought a dehumidifier today, and installed it in the van. Awaiting 10 gallons of water to appear overnight...well some anyway.!!!Also booked van in for checks next Wednesday, Mot and then damp check and inspection. Will now have to await results...watch this space.tonyg3nwl.ps. More rain expected overnight and tomorrow..anyone got some spare water wings?.

 

I hope you bought the 'dessicant' type of dehumidifier because the 'compressor' type are not much use in temperatures below 27 degrees C.

 

Extract from Dehumidifiers UK web page:

Compressor dehumidifiers only work well in very high temperatures (over 27 degrees centigrade)and high humidity. In contrast, even the most basic desiccant units extract the same amount of moisture in any temperature over one degree centigrade.

 

 

[Steve928]

RogerC - 2014-01-23 10:51 PM

 

I hope you bought the 'dessicant' type of dehumidifier because the 'compressor' type are not much use in temperatures below 27 degrees C.

 

Extract from Dehumidifiers UK web page:

Compressor dehumidifiers only work well in very high temperatures (over 27 degrees centigrade)and high humidity. In contrast, even the most basic desiccant units extract the same amount of moisture in any temperature over one degree centigrade.

 

Sorry but that is nonsense.We have 2 compressor-type dehumidifiers in near-constant use.One is on the boat ashore in the boatyard and runs for 4 hours per day in temperatures which on the wet west coast of Scotland would probably average nearer 6 or 7 degrees over the winter. This extracts copious amounts of water and keeps the interior dusty dry. Without it everything feels damp and mould starts to grow. There is always a wet patch under the boat where the dehumidifier drains to.The other is in our bathroom and we use it instead of an extractor fan. Again the temperature in there would never come close to approaching 27 degerees C yet it fills its 5 litre container every 3rd. or 4th. day.If you expect temperatures to reach near freezing point do be sure to get a model with 'hot gas defrost' though: this will thaw out the condenser element more quickly once ice forms on it.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Running a 230 V appliance in a bathroom?

 

As for nonsense, http://www.airandwatercentre.com/blog/119/desiccant-or-compressor-driven-dehumidifier/

 

 

[Steve928]

JudgeMental - 2014-01-24 8:58 AM

 

Running a 230 V appliance in a bathroom?

 

As for nonsense, http://www.airandwatercentre.com/blog/119/desiccant-or-compressor-driven-dehumidifier/

 

 

I'll happily accept 'less effective', but if they're effective enough as my experience proves beyond any reasonable doubt then being 'less effective' isn't a problem.

The link I was responding to stated 'not much use below 27 degrees' which is, I repeat, nonsense.

[RogerC]

Steve I can't comment on your experience with your dehumidifier but to say 'nonsense' to known scientific research and industry advice is a little at odds with the reported findings.  You can see from the graph below that the compressor type dehumidifier performance drops off drastically below 27 degrees and grossly under performs the desiccant type under 20 degrees whereas the desiccant type remains relatively stable in terms of performance right across the temperature range :

 

Desiccant Dehumidifiers

• Maintains high performance even in low temperatures (1~15°C)
• Portable and lightweight (5~9kg)
• Minimal noise
• May include heater. Higher wattage.
• Increases room temperature by about 3~5°C

Compressor Dehumidifiers

• Only works well in higher temperatures
• Bulkier and heavier (over 10kg)
• Noisier
• Less power consumption
• Increases room temperature by about 1~2°C

 

*note: The rise in temperature will also depend on the room size and operation of the machine

 

Compressors, also known as refrigerant type dehumidifiers, is the most common type of dehumidifier on the market. They work by drawing moist over a refrigerated coil with a small fan, then condensing the water before reheating the air using a hot coil. They work better in higher ambient temperatures with a high dew point temperature. In cold temperatures, this process is less effective. Compressor types are most effective at over 45% RH, higher if the air is cold.

Desiccant dehumidifiers  work according to the adsorption principle, making them especially suited for high humidity levels at low temperatures. They are often used in various sectors in the industry because they can achieve humidity levels below 35%.

Desiccant dehumidifiers use a slowly rotating disc or belt of material that absorbs moisture from the air. The damp section then moves through a drying process (typically a heating element) that evaporates the water and collects it in the tank.

Because they don’t use cooling to extract the moisture, desiccant rotor models can be much more effective than refrigerative models in cold climates.

In fact, desiccant dehumidifiers’ performance are largely unaffected by the temperature of the air. As you can see in the graph below, their rate of dehumidification remains stable in low and high temperatures, making them suitable for all seasons.

Compressors, on the other hand, work better in summer when temperatures are higher, but not so much in cooler temperature.

R

What is the difference between a compressor and a desiccant dehumidifier?

http://www.andatech.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/dehumidifiers-comparison.jpg

Desiccant Dehumidifiers

• Maintains high performance even in low temperatures (1~15°C)
• Portable and lightweight (5~9kg)
• Minimal noise
• May include heater. Higher wattage.
• Increases room temperature by about 3~5°C

Compressor Dehumidifiers

• Only works well in higher temperatures
• Bulkier and heavier (over 10kg)
• Noisier
• Less power consumption
• Increases room temperature by about 1~2°C

 

*note: The rise in temperature will also depend on the room size and operation of the machine

 

Compressors, also known as refrigerant type dehumidifiers, is the most common type of dehumidifier on the market. They work by drawing moist over a refrigerated coil with a small fan, then condensing the water before reheating the air using a hot coil. They work better in higher ambient temperatures with a high dew point temperature. In cold temperatures, this process is less effective. Compressor types are most effective at over 45% RH, higher if the air is cold.

Desiccant dehumidifiers  work according to the adsorption principle, making them especially suited for high humidity levels at low temperatures. They are often used in various sectors in the industry because they can achieve humidity levels below 35%.

Desiccant dehumidifiers use a slowly rotating disc or belt of material that absorbs moisture from the air. The damp section then moves through a drying process (typically a heating element) that evaporates the water and collects it in the tank.

Because they don’t use cooling to extract the moisture, desiccant rotor models can be much more effective than refrigerative models in cold climates.

In fact, desiccant dehumidifiers’ performance are largely unaffected by the temperature of the air. As you can see in the graph below, their rate of dehumidification remains stable in low and high temperatures, making them suitable for all seasons.

Compressors, on the other hand, work better in summer when temperatures are higher, but not so much in cooler temperature.

http://www.andatech.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/dehumidification-graph.jpg

 

[Brian Kirby]

IMO, dehumidifiers in motorhomes are overkill. Two reasons.

1 The moisture content (absolute humidity) of air in winter, in UK, is quite low, because it is cold. The simplest way to avoid condensation in an unoccupied van is by applying gentle heat. If the van is kept slightly above the dew point of the outside air, and an insulated windscreen and cab windows cover is used, condensation will not occur. Vans are relatively well insulated, so heat losses at low temperatures are very small, and running a cheap (£15), low powered, say 500W, thermostatically controlled heater is quite economical. Average minimum temperatures in UK from November to march are around 3 - 5C, and the average relative humidity of the air is around 90%. As air is warmed its relative humidity falls, so that by keeping the van at about 6C, or slightly above, the risk of condensation is to all intents and purposes eliminated.

2 Dehumidifiers cost more (those offered for caravans etc are £100+) to buy and run than the above type of heater, and risk over-drying the van, potentially causing shrinkage of timber components. However, more important, IMO, is that all vans have built in ventilation, so new humidity is constantly being added as the humidifier tries to dry the air in the van. It has to keep running to keep up, meaning its running costs will inevitably be higher.

[tonyg3nwl]

Hi folks again..update as promised..

 

firstly, the dehumid device was found at Argos, Band Q had sold out. It has been running for 48 hours in enclosed van, and has collected around 1 to 1.5 liters of water..tank emptied twice without measuring.

 

after yesterdays rain, I checked this morning and a close look at suspect area on offside at floor level, I was amazed to see something glistening along the join of floor and wall. Damp meter screamed loudly and touching the area proved that it was decidedly wet...

 

I have today in the dry, stripped the body trim over the wheel arch to see if I can find a leak..looking for dirty area where water has penetrated...on removing the trim, the holding screws when removed were very rusty along their entire length, lndicating to me that water has been penetrating at least that way..

 

removing the trim, was difficult as they use some tough mastic type glue which had to me cut through in places..however I succeeded and have attempted to reseal everywhere that water might penetrate, including the screw holes, and replaced the trim sealing again all likely entry points. Tonight is promised that rain again is on order, so I will check tomorrow to see if I have done any good.

 

I acknowledge the "experts" and their explanations of different types of driers, and heating requirements..it seems to have provoke a certain amount of discussion anyway.

 

I await the outcome of todays efforts, and "watch this space".

 

Tonyg3nwl.

[Guest JudgeMental]

surely it would have been best to let it dry out first.....

[tonyg3nwl]

JudgeMental - 2014-01-25 4:08 PM

 

surely it would have been best to let it dry out first.....[/quote

 

WHY , but with more rain forecast, surely it is better to seal up any leaks and try to stop any more water getting in, THEN try the drying process..isnt that more logical?

 

tony

[Brian Kirby]

Tony, just slightly puzzled why, if the water is visible between wall and floor at floor level, you attacked the wheel arch, which is usually above floor level? Have you tried the moisture meter on the wall above where you can see the water?

[Guest JudgeMental]

tonyg3nwl - 2014-01-25 5:24 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2014-01-25 4:08 PM

 

surely it would have been best to let it dry out first.....[/quote

 

WHY , but with more rain forecast, surely it is better to seal up any leaks and try to stop any more water getting in, THEN try the drying process..isnt that more logical?

 

tony

 

No I don't think so! That's how you seal in damp and get rot.......needs proper attention and as Brian says probably from below......What van?

[Keithl]

tonyg3nwl - 2014-01-22 6:36 PM

... van is Starfire by autocruise,05 plate.

 

tonyg3nwl.

 

[tonyg3nwl]

Reply removed wheel arch trim to get access to body trim to find possible access point for water ingress. Only suspect ingress point is just to forward of point where wheel arch /bodypanel/floor meet..

Wet area is junction of floor and wall under bunk all along the join from gas locker rearwards as far as I can see without dismantling wardrobe area I suspect it may run all along the whole length of body, but cant see because of wardrobe and shower..these would have to be dismantled to determine the total extent of problem..the external trim reseal is accessible, internally would require proper stripout to confirm. External reseal is something I can tackle, but internal stripout would be major task beyond my resources.

 

this may only be a temporary fix, in the hopes of stopping it getting worse until a professional diagnosis and fix can be arranged..

ther is no findable problem higher up the wall, but going in next week for "expert"to offer opinion.

 

I am not convinced that access point is not forward of gas locker, but that is also a stripout problem, to be tackled professionally if needed. My worst fears are that it will have to be done by proper experts.and that say MONEY.

And TIME.

TONY

 

tonyg3nwl.