rugdoctor Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 in april 2013 i had a new fiamma f45s awning fitted to my swift suntor motor home,it was purchased from JOHN CROSS motorhome centre east SUSSEX and fitted by my local repair centre.whilst on holliday september 2013 and useing it for the first outingsince purchase,but 4th time as i was lowering the rear leg the front leg came out of the new design nylon fixing,it dipped at the front and twisted the extending arm and damaged the fixings.THE RESULT THE AWNING IS NOW DAMAGED on return from my holliday ireported my problem to JOHN CROSS had the awning inspected by my local repair shop who forwarded pictures to JOHN CROSS,i was expecting a replacement or at the very least a repair under the warranty,NO,JOHN CROSS without inspecting the awning stated STORM DAMAGE .NOT COVERED.and dismissed my claim.i refuted this as it was not case ,but they gave me FIAMMA,S E MAIL ADDRESS. JOHN CROSS forwarded the damage pictures to FIAMMA who are also saying storm damage FIAMMA HAS YET TO REPLY TO MY 3 E,MAILS .Theire was no storm when i lowered my awning,i was expecting rain whitch was the reason for me brining it in, HOWEVER i would like somebody to explain to me how a storm can rip the leg out of its socket without tottaly destroying the awning,JUST RUBBISH. I am a experianced motorhome user over 20 years useing FIAMMA AWNINGS ,hollidaying in the north west of SCOTLAND and the OUTER HEBRIDEES without any problems, this inncident happend in CROACIA IN CALM WEATHER,WITH PENDING RAIN.I havegiven JOHN CROSSumpteen chances to come and inspect my awning to no avail. This is not the sort of customer service we deserve in 2013,2014 from either a manafacturer or retailer,, can i have feed back please. REAY BOY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Hi.. First off, no need to keep SHOUTING!... ;-) (...because that, along with constantly naming the company, just makes it look like you're posting in order to just have a rant and to slag them off...especially in a first post). So what "feedback" are you hoping for then?.. They say it's "storm damage" and you say it isn't.. :-S If it's come unclipped, surely it's reasonable enough for them to conclude that it's either a) Been lifted by the wind or b) Wasn't secure properly to start with..? ...unless someone on here witnessed when it "came out" from it's *fixings, I'm not sure what you're after..? (*are these the mounting points that fix to the body sides,that the lower end of the leg clips into?) Are you saying that these "fixings" are faulty....or not up to the job? (..How do this "new design" differ form the originals?) Although if, as you say, you have 20 years experience of using these awnings, then you'll be well aware that it certainly doesn't take a storm to damage and/or twist them.... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Afternoon folks, I was thinking about having one of these but the stories I hear ,just keeps putting me off. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Welcome George. I'm not familiar with the very latest fitting but I cannot work out what you were doing. The only way I can see that an extending arm would be forced to bend is if you had extended the cover to near its maximum unevenly before arranging the alloy legs to support the cover. Presumably if the arm was bent you would not have been able to rewind the cover into its slot, but you do not say this. If you were lowering the awning in stages using the legs as supports until fully opened I ... but then ... you say you were expecting rain which was the reason for bringing it in. George What were you really doing? If all this is what you sent to Fiama I'm not surprised they immediately said storm damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Goldi, There's nothing wrong with the awnings if you follow common sense use. Asses which way any wind is blowing from. Even the lightest wind will fold the whole lot over the roof if its not secured correctly. When the awning is extended attach 2 separate ties to each leg and drive the pegs in at an angle not straight and leave one end lower so any water can run off. Remember every gallon of water weighs 10 pounds. A large puddle can weigh half a hundred weight. Never leave it out at night is the first rule. If its windy when winding in then get someone to assist unless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Come on George you posted a complaint and you've had 30 minutes to look at the answers. Do you want our replies or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 goldi - 2014-01-23 4:39 PM Afternoon folks, I was thinking about having one of these but the stories I hear ,just keeps putting me off. norm They are quite alright if you use some common sense, ALWAYS secure the awning with 'guy ropes' and large pegs, even if you only intend have it out for half an hour, if the wind gets up, and you want to take it down, get someone to hold the centre part of the frame, as you slowly wind it in, the last 2 or 3 feet (helper cannot reach high enough ) wait, until a lull in the wind, and keep a guy rope attached with you holding one end. Wind it in. Done this lots of times, in quite high winds that have 'Sprung up' suddenly. As far as i know the design of the Fiamma legs havn't changed recently, screw grips to adjust the height, attached to a type of 'universal joint, which is bolted to the main front crossbar.They work fine provided you do not 'Force' anything in a direction it wasn't designed to go. After having 2 Fiamma's, a 45 and a 65, I now have an Omnistor, fitted by Autotrail. Much the same, similar quality. If you just put them out without any means of holding the canopy down, IT WILL eventually blow over the roof of the van. And if you leave it 'dead level' , and it rains, it will fill up with rainwater and either buckle the support arms and legs or rip the canopy. BUT, used sensibly they are (to me) a 'Must Have' accessory. Cannot picture in my mind what happened to the 'op's' canopy frame .For the leg to come 'untelescoped' in the way he described the canopy must have lifted, on the opposite side to the one he was lowering, That means it was windy. In a wind, it is wise to have 2 people taking it in (call a neighbor if necessary !). But trying to use this forum as a hammer to hit the dealer with, won't help your cause. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Rayjsj - 2014-01-23 8:45 PM ...Cannot picture in my mind what happened to the 'op's' canopy. Ray No,it's not very clear, is it?... The best I could come up with, was that the OP was perhaps using the "wall-fixings": http://www.fiammastore.com/Fiamma-Accessories-for-Zip-F45-F65/Fiamma-Wall-Fixing-Brackets ..and one of the legs, came out..? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Yes, thats a possibility, never used those fixings myself ,as I didn't fancy having more holes drilled into the side of the van than was necessary. Think they are for use on 'Aires; where you are not supposed to put anything on the floor outside your van ? Depends how high up the van they were, you need quite a 'tilt' to bend a support arm. They are strong sectioned alloy, and designed to take a fair amount of rough usage. Don't want to judge, but i'm not convinced. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I assume what is meant by the rear leg is the load bearing roof bearer which opens like a hinge when the awning is extended and is at an angle to the ground, one end being connected to main housing the other to the front housing of the awning. The front leg I assume is the extendable upright leg at each front of the awning and when not in use, folds into the awning front cover and is retained in the cover by a plastic clip. There is a knack in folding out this leg and if not done properly and forced I would imagine could cause damage to the "joint". This leg can be clipped into the wall clips for use on an aires. On an aires once and an jobsworth of the local police took a motorhomer to task for having the upright on the ground. Once he moved it into the bracket he was quiet happy. To save any problems I fitted them. The OP needs to be a bit more descriptive in what is damaged. Edit Reading previous post, using the wall brackets would not cause damage to the leg or the joint if properly extended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Whilst I can appreciate your annoyance at all of this I don't know why you think that Johns Cross should come to you to inspect the awning, especially since they did NOT install it on your vehicle. From what you have said they have, despite their view, still forwarded the photos supplied by your local repairer to Fiamma who have also have said it is storm damage in their view. I assume by the back leg you mean the one nearest the rear end of your motorhome, and the front being the one the nearest the front? You say you were lowering the rear leg when the front one popped out which makes me rather suspect that you lowered the rear leg too much thereby letting all the weight of the outer edge of the awning sit on the single front leg at quite an angle, if this is this case I can quite easily understand how it would pop out and twist - when we lower our legs down we do it a bit on one, then a bit on the other, then put one away then the other, but there are always two of us doing so to ensure that the awning outer edge is fully supported at all times and is kept level so it cannot dip and twist. Whilst I appreciate you are insistent that it was not caused by a storm the damage what you describe seems to be exactly the same outcome - the frame of an awning can be damaged by a storm/wind without the actual fabric being affected - once when we were sitting out under the awning on a previous MH one sunny day suddenly the wind got up a bit and lifted the awning up a little and in the process slightly twisted one of the top support 'scissor' bars. Fortunately it did not unduly affect the usability of the awning but if a slight breeze can bend the framework then it suddenly being 'dropped' due to the leg coming adrift, I can easily understand that this would do the same type of damage, and would to all intents and purposes appear to be storm/wind damage. I assume you are George Sutherland from somewhere near Telford? If so, then there is a very good chap, Dave Newell at Tweedale, who could perhaps inspect the awning for you and let you know what it would take to fix it as I suspect it isn't a massive problem. http://www.davenewell.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 By the look of things its SPAMMING just to damage JC's reputation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 sshortcircuit - 2014-01-23 9:34 PM I assume what is meant by the rear leg is the load bearing roof bearer which opens like a hinge when the awning is extended and is at an angle to the ground, one end being connected to main housing the other to the front housing of the awning. Nope, as I've mentioned above, and going over his description of what he was doing and the damage caused I think the 'rear leg' is the one which you extend to the ground at end of the awning nearest to the rear of the MH, and the 'front leg' is the one nearest the front end of the motorhome, nothing to do with the actual 'back' of the awning attached to the MH. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-01-23 10:23 PM By the look of things its SPAMMING just to damage JC's reputation Perhaps, but if that's the case it doesn't appear to be working! *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Mel B - 2014-01-23 10:29 PM sshortcircuit - 2014-01-23 9:34 PM I assume what is meant by the rear leg is the load bearing roof bearer which opens like a hinge when the awning is extended and is at an angle to the ground, one end being connected to main housing the other to the front housing of the awning. Nope, as I've mentioned above, and going over his description of what he was doing and the damage caused I think the 'rear leg' is the one which you extend to the ground at end of the awning nearest to the rear of the MH, and the 'front leg' is the one nearest the front end of the motorhome, nothing to do with the actual 'back' of the awning attached to the MH. :-D Nope, the OP needs to describe in more detail. As you will appreciate the extending arm (rear leg) is quite substantial and not sure how you can damage it under normal use. It would be easy to damage the knuckle joint by using excessive force when erecting and positioning the support(front) legs.. I erect mine on my own and it is quite easy to extend fully and then pull out the support (front) legs, with care, and adjust to the height required Will hold fire to see if the OP will respond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 sshortcircuit - 2014-01-23 10:53 PM Mel B - 2014-01-23 10:29 PM sshortcircuit - 2014-01-23 9:34 PM I assume what is meant by the rear leg is the load bearing roof bearer which opens like a hinge when the awning is extended and is at an angle to the ground, one end being connected to main housing the other to the front housing of the awning. Nope, as I've mentioned above, and going over his description of what he was doing and the damage caused I think the 'rear leg' is the one which you extend to the ground at end of the awning nearest to the rear of the MH, and the 'front leg' is the one nearest the front end of the motorhome, nothing to do with the actual 'back' of the awning attached to the MH. :-D Nope, the OP needs to describe in more detail. As you will appreciate the extending arm (rear leg) is quite substantial and not sure how you can damage it under normal use. It would be easy to damage the knuckle joint by using excessive force when erecting and positioning the support(front) legs. The OP said: "... as i was lowering the rear leg the front leg came out of the new design nylon fixing,it dipped at the front and twisted the extending arm and damaged the fixings ... I agree that he could do to clarify things a bit more, but he is, IMV, describing that he was lowering the rear leg on the outer section of the awning, NOT the extending arm which he also refers to and is what you are thinking of. From my own experience as I mentioned earlier, I can definitely confirm that damage can be caused to the extending arm with very little force ... in our case it was a bit of wind. However, I still suspect it was 'user error' in the way that he was lowering the rear leg - once the securing knob/bracket is released they can suddenly drop down - if this happened then the other leg could get a sudden jolt to dislodge, or the angle could be too great for it to hold in place, and therefore cause the damage mentioned. You said: I erect mine on my own and it is quite easy to extend fully and then pull out the support (front) legs, with care, and adjust to the height required Will hold fire to see if the OP will respond I seriously suggest you reconsider the way that you are setting-up your awning! 8-) Fiamma do NOT recommend you do it in the way you are due to the strain it can place on the fixings on the side of a motorhome. This is a copy of some of their instructions/advice: In order to avoid unnecessary strain on the awning as well as on the vehicle side, we suggest to take out the legs at about 1 m from the opening. We saw a couple last year on an aire in France using their large Fiamma awning fully extended without even putting the legs down - they were happily sitting under it in the shade completely oblivious to the strain it was placing on the motorhome. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Does anyone know when the OP is going to announce the winner of his "Guess how I ******* up my awning" competition ? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Mel B - 2014-01-23 11:31 PM in France using their large Fiamma awning fully extended without even putting the legs down - they were happily sitting under it in the shade completely oblivious to the strain it was placing on the motorhome. *-) Are you sure it wasn't a F45 Eagle, they are self supporting and do not have legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Mel B - 2014-01-23 11:31 PM sshortcircuit - 2014-01-23 10:53 PM Mel B - 2014-01-23 10:29 PM sshortcircuit - 2014-01-23 9:34 PM I assume what is meant by the rear leg is the load bearing roof bearer which opens like a hinge when the awning is extended and is at an angle to the ground, one end being connected to main housing the other to the front housing of the awning. Nope, as I've mentioned above, and going over his description of what he was doing and the damage caused I think the 'rear leg' is the one which you extend to the ground at end of the awning nearest to the rear of the MH, and the 'front leg' is the one nearest the front end of the motorhome, nothing to do with the actual 'back' of the awning attached to the MH. :-D Nope, the OP needs to describe in more detail. As you will appreciate the extending arm (rear leg) is quite substantial and not sure how you can damage it under normal use. It would be easy to damage the knuckle joint by using excessive force when erecting and positioning the support(front) legs. The OP said: "... as i was lowering the rear leg the front leg came out of the new design nylon fixing,it dipped at the front and twisted the extending arm and damaged the fixings ... I agree that he could do to clarify things a bit more, but he is, IMV, describing that he was lowering the rear leg on the outer section of the awning, NOT the extending arm which he also refers to and is what you are thinking of. From my own experience as I mentioned earlier, I can definitely confirm that damage can be caused to the extending arm with very little force ... in our case it was a bit of wind. However, I still suspect it was 'user error' in the way that he was lowering the rear leg - once the securing knob/bracket is released they can suddenly drop down - if this happened then the other leg could get a sudden jolt to dislodge, or the angle could be too great for it to hold in place, and therefore cause the damage mentioned. You said: I erect mine on my own and it is quite easy to extend fully and then pull out the support (front) legs, with care, and adjust to the height required Will hold fire to see if the OP will respond I seriously suggest you reconsider the way that you are setting-up your awning! 8-) Fiamma do NOT recommend you do it in the way you are due to the strain it can place on the fixings on the side of a motorhome. This is a copy of some of their instructions/advice: In order to avoid unnecessary strain on the awning as well as on the vehicle side, we suggest to take out the legs at about 1 m from the opening. We saw a couple last year on an aire in France using their large Fiamma awning fully extended without even putting the legs down - they were happily sitting under it in the shade completely oblivious to the strain it was placing on the motorhome. *-) I was aware of the Fiamma advise, however would thank you for keeping me on course *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 GEORGE ! where are you, Someone must be right so tell us who is nearest then we can offer some repair remedies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 He probably realizes now he should have supported it with the legs when rolled half out, no other explanation >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Think this is another '1 post wonder' only with shouting and name calling. *-) Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-01-24 8:47 AM Mel B - 2014-01-23 11:31 PM in France using their large Fiamma awning fully extended without even putting the legs down - they were happily sitting under it in the shade completely oblivious to the strain it was placing on the motorhome. *-) Are you sure it wasn't a F45 Eagle, they are self supporting and do not have legs. Definitely a 'normal' F45, as we walked past we could see the legs tucked up under the outer edge. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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