anesta Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Hi, I am looking to replace the tyres of my motorhomes, but nobody seems to be able to supply them with metal valves (recommended by the tyre manufacturers!). Does anybody know where I can get hold of these metal valves please? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Hi are these the kind of things your looking for, normally for alloys but I think they will also fit steel rims.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-Steel-Tyre-Valve-Choose-Quantity-/301089618082?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Wheels_tyre_Trims_Trims_ET&hash=item461a56f8a2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 anesta - 2014-02-18 3:39 PM Hi, I am looking to replace the tyres of my motorhomes, but nobody seems to be able to supply them with metal valves (recommended by the tyre manufacturers!). Does anybody know where I can get hold of these metal valves please? Thank you. If you have a commercial vehicle tyre supplier/fitters in your area they will be able to swop the rubber valve for metal ones. They will also be able to get suitable new tyres for your van at a competitive price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 ....or re-use the ones that are presumably already on. They are not disposable like the plastic ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 anesta - 2014-02-18 3:39 PM Hi, I am looking to replace the tyres of my motorhomes, but nobody seems to be able to supply them with metal valves (recommended by the tyre manufacturers!). Does anybody know where I can get hold of these metal valves please? Thank you. There's a longish discussion about 'motorhome-suitable' tyre-valves in this earlier thread http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Tyre-valve-failure/33688/ A metal clamp-in valve needs to be matched to the diameter of the valve-hole in the motorhome's wheel rim (this is usually a nominal 11.3mm diameter). Clamp-in valves are available in various lengths and designs, and it makes sense to choose a length that's long enough to allow a tyre-inflator to be easily attached to the valve, but not so long that it protrudes well out from the wheel where kerbing could damage it. A wide variety of clamp-in valves is marketed by this company http://www.auto4.co.uk/Valves-and-Valve-Hardware/Clamp-In-Valves Assuming that your motorhome's wheels have the normal 11.3mm-diameter valve-hole (and that a 42mm length would be OK) this valve should be suitable http://www.auto4.co.uk/Valves-and-Valve-Hardware/Clamp-In-Valves/235030--Clamp-In-Valve-42mm-cw-16mm-Nut--235030 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 anesta - 2014-02-18 3:39 PM Hi, I am looking to replace the tyres of my motorhomes, but nobody seems to be able to supply them with metal valves (recommended by the tyre manufacturers!). Does anybody know where I can get hold of these metal valves please? Thank you. I'm a bit puzzled that your motorhome doesn't already have metal valves. Could you give some details of what it is, and what make and type of tyres are presently fitted? Usually, metal valves, and CP rated tyres, are standard fit from the factory. The valves are needed because of the high pressures recommended for these tyres. If your van doesn't have such valves, it may be that the tyre pressures recommended don't warrant their use. As Derek says, the metal valve must fit to the hole in the wheel rim. If your wheels were not originally specified with metal valves, you may find the hole diameter is not a ready match to commonly available valves, leading to possible complications sourcing new valves. Final point. If the existing valves are metal valves, unless they are in very poor condition it is usual to merely replace the valve core and not the whole valve. Might this be the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Brian Earlier forum threads indicate that anesta's motorhome is a 2007 Hymer Camp 622CL based on a Ford Transit. Hymer's policy has been to fit 'camping car' tyres to their motorhomes and, when a Fiat-based motorhome is marketed with this type of tyre, metal clamp-in tyre valves are normally fitted too. However, I'm guessing from anesta's inquiry that his Ford-based motorhome currently does not have metal valves and he wishes to fit them when the tyres are replaced. As we are both well aware, there is a long and involved history relating to Transit tyre valves. This was discussed here http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/High-Pressure-Tyre-Valves/26272/ Assuming that anesta's Hymer currently does not have clamp-in valves, when its tyres are replaced it would be normal practice to replace the tyre valves as well. The Ford factory-fitted tyre valve for a 2007 Transit motorhome chassis will be a high-pressure type and (as far as I'm aware) the particular valve Ford recommends be used is unique. This valve is shown in the attached photo and (unless Ford has changed it) will have a Ford Part Number of 4688245. So the choice for anesta seems to be either to obtain 'correct' replacement snap-in valves from a Ford main agent, or to fit metal clamp-in valves instead. In the latter case, the clamp-in valve from Auto4 http://www.auto4.co.uk/Valves-and-Valve-Hardware/Clamp-In-Valves/235030--Clamp-In-Valve-42mm-cw-16mm-Nut--235030 will be OK for the standard steel wheels fitted to a 2007 Transit (because those wheels are the same as on my own motorhome and that's the clamp-in valve I had fitted), but I can't swear that they'll be OK for the 'full width' wheel-trims that were standard on a 2007 Transit as my 2005-model hasn't got those. As Ford has never factory-fitted metal clamp-in valves to Transits, there's always the possibility that there'll be a conflict between a clamp-in valve and the wheel-trim - that's one of the reasons I mentioned earlier the need to choose an appropriate valve-length. (If anesta's Hymer has Ford alloy wheels - not Ford steel wheels - it might be wisest to fit the Ford snap-in valve.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 anesta - 2014-02-18 3:39 PM Hi, I am looking to replace the tyres of my motorhomes, but nobody seems to be able to supply them with metal valves (recommended by the tyre manufacturers!). Does anybody know where I can get hold of these metal valves please? Thank you. probably because they mostly do 'car tyres'. You need to go to a supplier that does commercial tyres as well, (not large HGV). metal valves are normal on large vans. Rubber valves do not take the pressures Req'd. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 There's a useful summary of tyre-valve types here http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=208 What usually happens with 'light commercial' vans when they reach a certain weight, is that there's a need to go to rear-wheel drive with a 'double-wheel' rear axle to obtain the necessary load-carrying capability. With four tyres to carry the weight, each tyre does not need to be individually super-strong and there's no need for a super-high tyre pressure. I've seen vans with factory-fitted low-pressure or high pressure snap-in tyre valves, but I've yet to see a van (however large) with factory-fitted metal clamp-in tyre valves. It's certainly the case that HGVs (and some heavy-duty trailers) will be factory-fitted with metal clamp-in valves, but it's very likely that these valves will be unsuitable for a motorhome's wheels. There's an example here http://www.tyre-rite.co.uk/detail.aspx?ID=190 and it should be noted that the valve is intended for a wheel-rim hole with a diameter of 9.7mm as opposed to the 11.3mm diameter that applies to Transit wheels. A lot of tyre vaves are Chinese-made and this Chinese website reveals the wide range of different types and designs. The Clamp-in Passenger Valves webpage http://www.bomingtirerepair.com/clamp-in-passenger-valves.html shows various designs but, for Transit Mk 6/Mk 7 steel wheels, I suggest the MS525AL design as being most suitable. The Transit steel wheel is not designed with a metal clamp-in valve in mind and the wheel-rim hole is at the base of a relatively narrow and deep 'valley'. The MS525AL has its tightening 'nut' at the very top of a long screw-down 'column' and within the column's diameter (as opposed to the MS525L that has its nut extending beyond the column's diameter) and this facilitates the fitting process. If a valve design like MS525S were chosen, the extra width of the nut (and its short column-length) could make it difficult/impossible to fit to Transit wheels. The 235030 valve marketed by Auto4 (link in my previous posting) has the same design as MS525AL and I can confirm that it can be fitted easily enough to Transit steel wheels. I'm tempted to suggest, if anesta's Hymer currently has the Ford original-equipment snap-in tyre-valve shown in the photo I provided in my last posting, that identical snap-in valves be obtained from a Ford agent and fitted as replacements. Even if suitable metal clamp-in valves were obtained, a tyre fitter unfamiliar with installing that type of valve might over- or under-tighten them. Tyre fitters will be familiar with snap-in valves and fitting them is straightforward. The important thing, really, is to prevent a tyre fitter using 'ordinary' low pressure tyre valves or (even worse) using unsuitable HGV-type wrong-diameter valves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Derek Uzzell - 2014-02-20 3:50 PM Even if suitable metal clamp-in valves were obtained, a tyre fitter unfamiliar with installing that type of valve might over- or under-tighten them. Tyre fitters will be familiar with snap-in valves and fitting them is straightforward. Too true a friend had a flat on Belgium Motorway at night, the week before he had the metal screw in valves fitted, the valve hadn't been tightened properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Derek Uzzell - 2014-02-20 9:22 AM Brian Earlier forum threads indicate that anesta's motorhome is a 2007 Hymer Camp 622CL based on a Ford Transit...........................(If anesta's Hymer has Ford alloy wheels - not Ford steel wheels - it might be wisest to fit the Ford snap-in valve.) Ah! Agreed. In either event the valves should be fairly readily available from a Ford commercial dealer. Providing the sales receipt is shown to the tyre fitter when the valves are handed over, any qualms the fitter may have about fitting "customer supplied" items should be assuaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I have just bought these http://www.auto4.co.uk/Valves-and-Valve-Hardware/Clamp-In-Valves/235030--Clamp-In-Valve-42mm-cw-16mm-Nut--235030 They seem to be the correct alligator type http://www.alligator-ventilfabrik.de/frontend/project/popup_variation.php?function=5759_popup&aid=5759&artnr=512563 The only difference I can see from the type supplied for my X250 steel wheel is that a) it has a nylon washer to protect paintwork/alloy b) the spanner is 11m rather than 14mm as on this alligator type http://www.alligator-ventilfabrik.de/frontend/project/popup_variation.php?function=5759_popup&aid=5759&artnr=513143 I wasn't happy about some of the possibly cheap types available because VOSA did a recall on a small batch of faulty metal tyre valves - risk of sudden deflation is not a pleasant thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 It's worth noting the 4Nm-6Nm tightening torque for these valves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MF2002 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Derek Uzzell - 2014-02-20 3:50 PM I've seen vans with factory-fitted low-pressure or high pressure snap-in tyre valves, but I've yet to see a van (however large) with factory-fitted metal clamp-in tyre valves Hi Derek, Next time you see a Police riot control (armoured) Mercedes Sprinter have a look. They have metal clamp in valves and Tyron wheel bands amongst other "enhancements", although at 5 tonnes I guess they could be classed as a special case. :-D F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Mercedes-Benz 'flat tyre' instructions for their Sprinter model are here http://www4.mercedes-benz.com/manual-trucks/ba/trucks/sprinter/en/in-depth/d63e35826.shtml They include advice on the tyre-valves to be used and (although TR600 higher-pressure valves are mentioned) there's no reference to metal clamp-in valves. Iveco market "Daily" panel-vans with a GVW of 7 tonnes and (I guess) these vehicles may have metal clamp-in valves as standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coachman Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 My dealer had no metal ones that day so agreed for him to put new innards in, job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I have resurrected this thread as I have just come across the same problem. Having had advice from SVTech on the requirements for uprating the gross weight of our Fiat based Chausson Welcome 717 GA to 3850kg (with a corresponding uprating of the rear axle weight to 2240kg) I had ordered two Continental Compact 100's size 225/70 R15 with a higher load index. The order was placed online but from our local tyre fitters who I rang in advance of placing the order to ensure they had metal valves to replace the ordinary valves included in the overall price for supply/fitting. They advised they had them on order and would have them by last Thursday so I booked it in for Friday just to make sure. Upon arrival the chap,I spoke to was standing in for the usual guy I had arranged the figment of metal valves with and he didn't know about them or if they had arrived so the fitting was postponed. Rang yestterday and the valves had not arrived so I am still waiting. Now I read that there are various types/sizes of valves which seems to complicate things. The existing tyres are only about ten months old (supplied new with the vehicke in July 2015 but I have not checked the manufacture code) and are fitted with metal valves, though they are a little short for the standard wheel trims on the steel wheels. One suggestion on here is to leave the existing valves in and replace the innards - maybe this is the way I should approach my tyre fitting shop? But are the inner valves standard fit and likely to be kept in stock? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Your motorhome is a 2015 Ducato-based coachbuilt model and, as such, will have been ex-factory-fitted with 215/70 R15CP ‘camping-car’ tyres (probably Michelin’s “Agilis Camping” pattern). It will have Schrader 65765-68 tyre valves that (as you rightly say) at a rim-to-top length of 38mm are a mite short for easy access when the standard steel wheels are fitted with Fiat’s standard plastic wheel-trim. Tyre-valve cores come in various lengths and designs. I don’t know off-hand which core is fitted to a Schrader 65765-68 valve, but why would you want to replace the original cores? It’s occasionally advised on motorhome forums that ‘metal' clamp-in valves may be left in place when tyres are changed and just their cores replaced, but that’s when the tyres (and valves) have some years of age to them. Your Chausson’s valves (and cores) are under a year old, so all you really need do is instruct your local tyre fitters to remove the Schrader valves’ cores carefully (which they’d do in any case when changing the tyres - though not necessarily carefully!) and then replace the original Schrader cores in the original Schrader valves before inflating the VanContact 100 225/70 R15 tyres. (For easier access you could have slightly longer clamp-in valves installed, but there’s a fair chance your local fitters would under- or over-tighten them. If you just have trouble removing/replacing the Schrader valve’s plastic cap, push a short length of 10mm-inside-diameter hose over the cap beforehand. Twisting the hose then makes cap removal/replacement simple.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Thank you Derek. Apparently, my local tyre fitters have just the one supplier of valves who, in this case, don't seem to be coming up with the goods. So, after a little prompting, they have just rung back to say they have got their hands on some and I am going in shortly to have the fitting done. As usual, there is conflicting advice with some saying replace the valve irrespective of age as the tyre sits up to the edge of the valve and some damage can ensue when the tyre is removed - largely dependent, I suspect, on how 'rough' or 'gentle' the tyre fitter is at removing the tyre - or that rather than replace just the core replace the whole valve which, as Derek quite rightly points out, raises the issue of the correct tightness of the replacement valve. Personally, I am of a mind to let them leave the (newish) valve in if, on inspection, it looks to be in good, undamaged state but will se what this afternoon brings. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 There are two basic types of ‘metal’ clamp-in tyre-valve. One (eg. Schrader’s 65765-68 design) has a thin O-ring seal that sits in a groove in the valve’s base, while the other seals via a stepped rubber ‘washer'. Examples can be seen on this Schrader webpage: https://www.schraderinternational.com/catalog/GB/HTML/AFTERMARKET%20PRODUCTS%20CATALOGUE%20-%20EDITION%2018/files/assets/basic-html/page13.html Valves with an O-ring seal need a clean, flat area around the valve-hole and are fine with well-made new rims. Stepped-washer valves are more accommodating when in comes to the condition and flatness of the valve-hole area are more usually the type retro-fitted. You’ll see from the Schrader webpage that the recommended tightening torque for a clamp-in valve varies and the torque used with stepped-washer valves is generally much lower than that advised for the O-ring type. It’s also generally the case that an O-ring-type valve will have spanner-flats on its base that allow the base to be held immobile while its nut is being tightened. Stepped-washer valves often don’t have base spanner-flats, so holding the base immobile is trickier and, if the base is allowed to move when tightening the nut, the stepped-washer can easily become damaged. When a steel rim has a clamp-in valve, a competent fitter should be able to remove and replace the tyre without damaging that valve. If fitters state that they cannot guarantee to do this successfully, you should definitely think twice about letting them install replacement clamp-in valves. From your comments it seems to me that your local firm has very limited experience of fitting this type of valve, so I strongly suggest that your Chausson’s original valves are retained and the original valve-cores are reused. If your tyre fitter does have the correct Schrader valve-cores in stock by all means fit new cores, but be aware that the cores (and valves) used by the tyre trade are often made very cheaply by the million by unknown-reputation manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 My local tyre fitter knew nothing about motorhome tyres, wanted to fit ordinary 10p rubber car valves and refused to pump them up to the recommended 5.5 bar " that's too high mate". Mr Tyre, a new local franchise had the correct valves, checked the pressure needed, and even the torque settings for the bolts. I sometimes see big rigs with ordinary car valves, and I mention if I can, without being pushy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Job done. When I arrived it turned out that the valves they had sourced were, in fact, metal snap in type which I didn't really want. After a short discussion during which I offered Derek's advice to simply check the condition of the existing valves and leave them in situ which is what they did. Next weeks thrilling instalment............fitting air assisted rear suspension........ David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Just had four new Conti's fitted at Kwikfit, they put new metal valves in, cannot see a problem here. You could fit just new cores, they are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 rupert123 - 2016-06-01 5:55 PM Just had four new Conti's fitted at Kwikfit, they put new metal valves in, cannot see a problem here. You could fit just new cores, they are the same. No need - they have left the original clamp in metal valves in as Derek suggested. I did ring Kwikfit for a quote (£287 as opposed to £187 at my local tyre place) and they confirmed they would fit metal valves but would not fit new cores to the existing valves. Worryingly, my tyre place, when they couldn't get the valves from their own supplier, obtained two metal valves from the Kwikfit dealer I got the quote from and they were the ones that turned out to be 'snap in' metal valves rather than the 'clamp in' variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 As should be apparent from the following link, valve cores come in different shapes and sizes: https://www.schraderinternational.com/Products/Product-Folder/NA-Valve-Cores?sc_lang=en-US-NA Snap-in valves have a rubber base and are ‘snapped' into the wheel-rin normally via a levering tool. Clamp-in valves are clamped into the wheel-rim via a nut threaded on to the valve-stem. It’s commonplace within the motorcaravanning community to refer to clamp-in valves simply as “metal valves” which leads to potential confusion as all tyre-valves have a metal stem (usually brass) on to which the valve-cap screws. Historically, clamp-in valves have been used for applications where the tyre inflation-pressure is high (say over 60psi). However, as clamp-in valves are trickier and more labour-intensive to fit as original equipment or retrospectively, in recent years specialised snap-in valves have become available able to handle a very high inflation pressure. Schrader’s 65753 valve https://www.schraderinternational.com/catalog/FR/HTML/CATALOGUE%20PRODUITS%20APRES-VENTE%20-%20%C3%89DITION%20N%2018/files/assets/basic-html/page11.html can handle up to 14bar (203psi) and would fit Ducato standard steel wheels, while Alligator’s CVV snap-in equivalent would also be suitable. But even when appropriate high-pressure snap-in valves designed for easy fitting are chosen things can go wrong http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/alligator-cvv-high-pressure-tire-valves-a-warning.105093/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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