geoff Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Certain councils are now placing "No motorcaravans from ...." or "No overnight parking"signs up. The regulations covering the Blue Badge system compel councils to provide certain exceptions to parking restrictions, one of which is that relating to on street parking meters/Pay and Display bays. These regulations state that "vehicles displaying a Blue Badge"" may park on these bays "without charge and without time limit". Note the words "Vehicle" and without time limit". They couldnt be any clearer ! A motorcaravan is a vehicle and therefore When a Blue Badge is displayed, that vehicle - and any other type of vehicle - may be parked in those bays "without time limit" i.e.indefinitely if so wished ! The Blue Badge regulations are made by the government, the parking restrictions are made by councils and therefore I would assume that parliamentry regulations would over-ride any council restrictions. Can anyone advise on this legal aspect as I wish to challenge a number of councils on this matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewad Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Can't help you but best of luck, keep us updated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I should think that the problem would be getting the MH to fit within a bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Hi Muswell, No problem on most bays. Anyway the regulations state "BAYS" . Most places charge for two bays if you overlap but if its free what the the problem ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Good luck with that, gf's sister recieved several tickets for blue badge parking of Sherpa van, these have been rescinded. But I would point out page 17/18 of blue badge guide where it indicates that local schemes may override the national scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 colin - 2014-02-26 7:14 PM Good luck with that, gf's sister recieved several tickets for blue badge parking of Sherpa van, these have been rescinded. But I would point out page 17/18 of blue badge guide where it indicates that local schemes may override the national scheme. Thanks, but I note the operative word "may" which by definition also means "may not". Can you give me any further info re the issuing of the tickets and why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 geoff - 2014-02-26 10:23 PM colin - 2014-02-26 7:14 PM Good luck with that, gf's sister recieved several tickets for blue badge parking of Sherpa van, these have been rescinded. But I would point out page 17/18 of blue badge guide where it indicates that local schemes may override the national scheme. Thanks, but I note the operative word "may" which by definition also means "may not". Can you give me any further info re the issuing of the tickets and why ? Her's is a plain commercial van, twice she's been given a ticket for parking in a disabled bay despite the blue badge being clearly displayed, it seems traffic wardens can't comprehend that a disabled person might be using a van, in her case it was to take her (late) disabled mother shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 I too use a plain van as a runaround but have not come across that particular problem. A friend uses a converted mini bus with a rear ramp fitted and he hasnt had problems with overnighting. It seems that traffic wardens are only looking for motor caravans, his vehicle is registered as a mini bus - perfect answer to "no motorcaravans ere"tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duetto owner Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 phone relevant council if possible. or look for a warden and ask noting his number so he can be quoted if you have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Come on, you must be joking ! What do you suggest ? "Excuse me, I,m trying to find a loophole in your parking regulations and therefore force you to stop making life difficult for myself .Pray show me how to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 duetto owner - 2014-02-27 3:53 AM phone relevant council if possible. or look for a warden and ask noting his number so he can be quoted if you have a problem. Perhaps there once was a time, long ago, when Traffic Wardens and councils were there to help us, and not just to make money for themselves. London parking meters were once run at a loss, as a public service to make parking available for short term visitors - but that was many years ago. Nowadays some councils put up signs willy nilly with no legal basis, or totally ambiguous and practically unenforceable like 'no overnight parking'. Speak to different council officials and traffic wardens and they will give you different answers to the same question, which I suppose is understandable when there is no legal basis to their assertions and road signs. They charge for car parks when its free to park on nearby streets - what clearer indication could there be that its just to make money, or make charges easier to collect, rather than improve road safety or congestion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 geoff - 2014-02-27 4:59 AM Come on, you must be joking ! What do you suggest ? "Excuse me, I,m trying to find a loophole in your parking regulations and therefore force you to stop making life difficult for myself .Pray show me how to do it." I assume that "Duetto Owner" was just meaning that by clarifying with them that, although being a van, it does carry a legitimate "blue badger", then that would/could at least pre-empt any problems?... Although strange that you use the term "loop-hole"....because if what you want to do is "legal", then you wouldn't see it as such... ;-) Although going by the amount of "blue badgers" we have around here, thank God they don't ALL drive MHs/large vans....if they did, everywhere would be gridlocked! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I have read many a parking payment board (to check that we are ok in our car) bit have noticed often that the sign might say that blue badge holders are not exempt from charges. My dad has a blue badge and he has told me that there are towns where blue badge holders must pay. Perhaps this is the difference between a council and a private car park?. From a logic perspective, a disabled person gets use of spaces usually closest to the town or amenities, i didnt think that it automatically meant free parking everywhere, although they can park on the street where others cant, on single and double yellow lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Hi Geoff, As a Blue Badge holder I take this as an aid to my parking to help me gain access to places without the need to walk long distances. I certainly would not like to look at it as a way of staying in a place without payment for say overnight.{as your post infers without time limit} A motorhome is for enjoyment and holidays and people should pay as anybody else, whilst they are using the van for this purpose. This is why we do not wildcamp and before the brigade of ' we do not wildcamp to save money' come on board I believe if position was reversed and sites were free, these people would love sites. I shall now put the kettle on and wait for the explosion. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 derek pringle - 2014-02-27 9:01 AM Hi Geoff, As a Blue Badge holder I take this as an aid to my parking to help me gain access to places without the need to walk long distances. I certainly would not like to look at it as a way of staying in a place without payment for say overnight.{as your post infers without time limit} A motorhome is for enjoyment and holidays and people should pay as anybody else, whilst they are using the van for this purpose. This is why we do not wildcamp and before the brigade of ' we do not wildcamp to save money' come on board I believe if position was reversed and sites were free, these people would love sites. I shall now put the kettle on and wait for the explosion. cheers derek I am not a freeloader. When going out I always use pay and display parking. My pay and display ticket is otherwise known as a tax disc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 pepe63 - 2014-02-27 8:31 AM Although strange that you use the term "loop-hole"....because if what you want to do is "legal", then you wouldn't see it as such... ;-) If you weren't bothered about it being legal you would just do it, and not bother looking for loopholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Peter James - 2014-02-27 9:20 AM derek pringle - 2014-02-27 9:01 AM Hi Geoff, As a Blue Badge holder I take this as an aid to my parking to help me gain access to places without the need to walk long distances. I certainly would not like to look at it as a way of staying in a place without payment for say overnight.{as your post infers without time limit} A motorhome is for enjoyment and holidays and people should pay as anybody else, whilst they are using the van for this purpose. This is why we do not wildcamp and before the brigade of ' we do not wildcamp to save money' come on board I believe if position was reversed and sites were free, these people would love sites. I shall now put the kettle on and wait for the explosion. cheers derek I am not a freeloader. When going out I always use pay and display parking. My pay and display ticket is otherwise known as a tax disc Peter, I agree that the Tax Disc should be enough, God knows it is expensive enough, but that goes for everybody with a Tax Disc. The poster is looking for things that would only apply to Blue Badge holders. I did not call you a freeloader and am sorry if you took it that way, I am discussing the principle not the persons attitude. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 derek pringle - 2014-02-27 9:01 AM Hi Geoff, As a Blue Badge holder I take this as an aid to my parking to help me gain access to places without the need to walk long distances. I certainly would not like to look at it as a way of staying in a place without payment for say overnight.{as your post infers without time limit} A motorhome is for enjoyment and holidays and people should pay as anybody else, whilst they are using the van for this purpose. This is why we do not wildcamp and before the brigade of ' we do not wildcamp to save money' come on board I believe if position was reversed and sites were free, these people would love sites. I shall now put the kettle on and wait for the explosion. cheers derek No explosion but I can assure you even if campsites paid me to stay there I would still avoid them like the plague. It IS nothing to do with the cost although it beggers belief why some people would pay £30 and upwards to park a motorhome. I just hate them, the people that frequent them and the whole ethos of staying on a regulated site full of rules and regs. Back on topic. If it states no time limit for Badge holders then thats what it means. Stay as long as you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 derek pringle - 2014-02-27 9:01 AM Hi Geoff, As a Blue Badge holder I take this as an aid to my parking to help me gain access to places without the need to walk long distances. I certainly would not like to look at it as a way of staying in a place without payment for say overnight.{as your post infers without time limit} A motorhome is for enjoyment and holidays and people should pay as anybody else, whilst they are using the van for this purpose... cheers derek Well put...that's pretty much my take on it Derek.... And if vehicle size limitations are an issue, then there has to be a degree of personal responsibility.. if someone has CHOSEN to drive an "oversized" vehicle, they surely must face the consequences/limitations of such...? OT Am I right in thinking that the "badges" used to be orange?..I'm sure my Dad's badge wasn't blue.. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petra Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Most signs saying no overnight parking and no motorhomes are illegal as the Council has to have an off street parking order in place which they don't usually do. They just hope that people will accept them and behave accordingly. It may be worth contacting Andy Strangeway who is campaigning against no overnight parking signs who is fully up to speed with challenging councils on these matters. He has already had the illegal signs in Scotland taken down and is currently in discussions with Scarborough and Lincolnshire county Councils. You can contact him at info@island-man.co.uk and check his website at andystrangeayovernightparkingcampaigner.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Wow ! Hornets nest indeed ! First let me say that I prefer to use the phrase of overnighting as I am only parking and not camping.In the EU countries they make a definite distinction between parking and camping and as nothing but my wheels touch the ground I am therefore parking. In relation to FREE parking, I simply quoted the regulations and did not specify that getting it free was the priority. I too would shun commercial campsite even if they were free, but I would be lying if I said that getting "summat for nowt" was not attractive. If a supermarket offers BOGOF which of you refuses to take the Free item or insists on paying for it ? Get off your high horses on this point ! The only people who say that money is not important are those who dont have it ! By referring to loopholes I am looking for ways to beat the regulations LEGALLY by studying them carefully and using their own laws /wordings/definitions etc to defeat them. Its what we used to call "Using your brains" or in modern parlance "Thinking outside the box" Finally, I assumed that most motorhomers were mature, well balanced sensible adults and I posed my question hoping that I would find some sensible replies, it seems that many - but not all -replies dont address the issue but simply pass comments on their or other peoples actions and the thread then becomes a battle of personalities and their differing opinions. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it the quantity of posts rather than their quality that leads to one being classed as an "Expert" on these forums ? Now having said my piece I am returning to the topic and will try to ignore any posts that are irrelevant to the question I posed as I have neither the time nor the inclination to indulge in justifying my actions any further. "'Tis better to shut thy gob and look foolish than to open it and prove that you are !"" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Thank you Petra, I will follow up those very helpful links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Barryd999 - 2014-02-27 9:38 AMderek pringle - 2014-02-27 9:01 AMHi Geoff, As a Blue Badge holder I take this as an aid to my parking to help me gain access to places without the need to walk long distances. I certainly would not like to look at it as a way of staying in a place without payment for say overnight.{as your post infers without time limit} A motorhome is for enjoyment and holidays and people should pay as anybody else, whilst they are using the van for this purpose. This is why we do not wildcamp and before the brigade of ' we do not wildcamp to save money' come on board I believe if position was reversed and sites were free, these people would love sites.I shall now put the kettle on and wait for the explosion.cheersderekNo explosion but I can assure you even if campsites paid me to stay there I would still avoid them like the plague. It IS nothing to do with the cost although it beggers belief why some people would pay £30 and upwards to park a motorhome. I just hate them, the people that frequent them and the whole ethos of staying on a regulated site full of rules and regs.Back on topic. If it states no time limit for Badge holders then thats what it means. Stay as long as you want. Very strong there Barry..........what gives rise to 'hating' people you have never met or spoken to or communicated with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Rather than " put the kettle on and wait for the explosion" think before you write. To make the bald statement that "A motorhome is for enjoyment and holidays" is incorrect. There are threads on this and other forums about the use of MHs as an only vehicle. To say that if "sites were free, these people would love sites" is equally incorrect. I for one have no desire whatsoever to park in a row of MHs or even in a field full of MHs, paricularly if the other MH owners are like you Derek. Enjoy your Blue Badge and leave others to fight it out with the little grey men from the Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 mikejkay - 2014-02-27 2:36 PM To make the bald statement that "A motorhome is for enjoyment and holidays" is incorrect There are threads on this and other forums about the use of MHs as an only vehicle.... Is it?... I think you'll find, that is what they are designed for....if there were designed for ease of use(Re: parking)then they'd make them...well......car sized! ;-) The fact some people choose to use them as their only vehicle, is a different thing altogether... Yes, I know some choose them, due to health/mobility issues..but if ease of use(again, parking)is paramount,(..along with space onboard for maybe "comfort break" facilities),then there are plenty of vehicles available , far smaller than 6-7mtr MHs(...eg. T4-T5 sized vehicles etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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