birdybiker66 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I'm not sure if anyone is familiar with this model but the mechanic that serviced it showed me what he had to do to make enough room to remove the wheel, he had to use a bottle jack twixt leaf spring and van and then lift the van on the crossbeam, It looks impossible to do at the side of the road in case of a flat tyre or are we missing something (No, I don't mean a brain !) https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=QzhQ30Y4j8PbHM&tbnid=BEOnlB-7kWMsDM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.southdownsmotorcaravans.co.uk%2Fstock%2F1926%2Fnew-bessacarr-e480-low-line-motorhome-n1926_007.html&ei=cGQTU5aEOerV0QXLp4GoDA&bvm=bv.62286460,d.ZGU&psig=AFQjCNGdzi8Bx4AWyeQzkmTFysz-n4Fcdw&ust=1393865630564039 Apologies, I can't find how to post pics yet, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 To post a pic, check the box "Attach a file after posting" you will need to reduce your image size to under 100k. Sounds like the mechanic did not have the right tools I.e. A jack that was not capable of lifting the body high enough. If jacked under the chassis providing there is enough lift on the jack there should be enough clearance to remove the wheel. Either that or he didn't have a clue and was jacking up the axle which would push the wheel up further under the arch. Edit: Thinking about it the idiot must have been jacking up the axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-03-02 5:17 PM To post a pic, check the box "Attach a file after posting" you will need to reduce your image size to under 100k. Sounds like the mechanic did not have the right tools I.e. A jack that was not capable of lifting the body high enough. If jacked under the chassis providing there is enough lift on the jack there should be enough clearance to remove the wheel. Either that or he didn't have a clue and was jacking up the axle which would push the wheel up further under the arch. Edit: Thinking about it the idiot must have been jacking up the axle. Lenny it is not uncommon for insufficient clearance between rear wheel arches and the wheel, even when jacking under the chassis and especially where AlKo chassis are used. One particular van I've serviced for the last four years or so takes 40 minutes to remove both rear wheels and refit them and that's on an 8Tonne lift with two jacks and having to utilise the fitted air suspension as well. I believe Swift have issued recalls on some models for exactly this reason. Far from being an "idiot" and "not having the right tools....." some motorhomes are "designed" by idiots and the "right tools" just don't exist. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdybiker66 Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Interesting replies, thanks. Although i watched him I can't remember exactly how he did it! but by putting a support in the middle of the rear (somewhere) and then lowering the 'van onto it the wheels then hung loose on the suspension but there wasn't enough room until he jacked the springs! Anyway I'll contact Swift and see what they say, that'll be interesting! Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Dave Newell Far from being an "idiot" and "not having the right tools....." some motorhomes are "designed" by idiots D. That I can understand, it happens far too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I've had an Autocruise in today for service and the rear wheel arches are so close to the tyres that the only way to remove the wheels was to cut away some of the arch. I'll try to post some photos later. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I must be lucky as my Autocruise Stardream on an Alko chassis presents no problems when it comes to wheel removal, I've had both off and replaced again on my own using a 2.5 tonne trolley jack and axle stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 My mind boggles reading this thread. These firms shoud employ idiots to design their vehicles, they might do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 If it's not possible to see the whole rear wheel when looking at it from the side, then beware... The attached photos show two Ford-based Eura Mobil models. The first has the rear wheel heavily shrouded by the wheel arch and (according to reports) carrying out a wheel-change was an absolute nightmare even when professional workshop equipment was available. The other photo - of a later design - has the rear wheel well-exposed and wheel-changing should be straighforward using just the Ford-supplied jack.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Thanks Derek, two perfect examples of how it should and should not be done. Hopefully here's a few images of todays grief: D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Simple buy an AutoTrail next time with the spare wheel mounted on the rear panel in its own housing. Makes you wonder why more manufacturers don't copy this idea though I must admit it does add to the rear axle loading having the heavy wheel set so far back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Image 1 is the wheel in the arch with vehicle raised under the AlKo chassis. Image 2 shows the pitifully small clearance at the front of the arch, just 19mm. Image3 and 4 show the offside rear wheel jammed between brake caliper and wheelarch. Image 5 shows my "mod" of cutting the front edge of the wheelarch away to aalow sufficient (just) clearance to remove and replace the wheel. D. In edit, no idiots were harmed during this procedure :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Colin.. ...if you can't get a wheel out of or into the wheel arch, where the spare is located, is somewhat secondary... Prior to buying our previous Chausson, we looked at a few Dethleffs on twin wheel, rear drive Transits and the rear wheels on some of those were pretty well shrouded.. but one we saw had a hinged panel :-S (..not sure it that was an after market mod' or they just changed the design..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Colin Leake - 2014-03-03 6:59 PM Simple buy an AutoTrail next time with the spare wheel mounted on the rear panel in its own housing. Makes you wonder why more manufacturers don't copy this idea though I must admit it does add to the rear axle loading having the heavy wheel set so far back. How does that help getting a rear wheel off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Would deflating the tyre help as then the tyre could be deformed around obstacles? I am of course aware its no use at side of road if there is no air pump, but in workshop or by emergency services is not an issue. It is how did a vehicle once where the wheel arch was in the way. It was a chap I came across at side of road in Germany and was scratchng his head and looking totally perplexed. I had a cycle stirrup pump and did not take too long to pump his spare back up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Dave Newell - 2014-03-03 6:56 PM Thanks Derek, two perfect examples of how it should and should not be done. Hopefully here's a few images of todays grief: D. Your photos remind me of my previous motorhome - a Ford Transit-based 1996 Herald Templar. The Herald Owners' Club magazine once published advice from an owner on how to change a rear wheel. This involved two heavy-duty trolley-jacks, large pieces of wood, etc. In the next magazine issue another owner advised how rear-wheel changing could be carried out using just the standard Ford scissors-jack, but manipulating the wheel in a way that was very counter-intuitive. Basically, the bottom of the wheel was pushed inwards towards the centreline of the motorhome and 'rotated' around the brake-drum in an arc. This method worked well enough getting the wheel off, but it was a beggar putting the wheel back on: nevertheless, it could be done. Any other technique using a single jack (and jacking beneath the rear axle where Ford stipulated) caused the tyre to foul the wheel arch. In the example you show, if the wheel-hub were positioned so that the two wheel-locating 'studs' were uppermost and in a horizontal plane (ie. in your 3rd photo the leftmost wheel-bolt hole would move downwards about 100 degrees) if the bottom of the wheel were then shoved inwards, it looks like the top of the wheel as it moves outwards and downwards might pass the edges of the wheel arch. (If you told me that you'd tried this technique and it didn't work, I wouldn't be at all surprised ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Then I'm not going to surprise you Derek. The problem in this instance is there is just 19mm clearance between tyre and arch at the front and 25mm at the rear (measuring horizontally and perpendicular to the longitudinal centre line of the vehicle) but the wheel needs to move outwards by at least 150mm at one point. As the wheelarches lowest ponits are below the centre line of the wheel even at full droop it just doesn't work. I also tried Jon's method of deflating the tyre but all that won me was the job of re-inflating it. "Motorhome designers" should come and spend a month on the shop floor BEFORE they ever pick up their computer mouse. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 This sort of juggling might work but it's bad enough heaving around 20kg of wheel while you're on your knees at the side of the road without making matters worse. I know you can call the recovery services but that isn't always convenient and I can't imagine they would be too impressed either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Oh I do so much prefer the looks of the wheel arched version shown below......apart from me screwing up the wheel trim..oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 In Eura Mobil's case, a novel building technique that was introduced for the floor of the entry-level Profila range meant that it was easier to not cut away the rear wheel arch. All Profila models (overcab or low-profile) based on the Mk 6 Transit had their rear wheels shrouded by the bodywork. This changed when the Transit Mk 7 began to be used, as shown in the attached photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdybiker66 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Well , I've had an email chat with Swift and they seem to think I'm not jacking it correctly or if I am I should contact Fiat (I can't see why they would be interested as they didn't do the coachbuild!) So, I've used THE jack on THE jack point and there's no way will the wheel clear the wheel arch! So as the problem was created by Swift aren't they responsible to fix it? Any comments happily received, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Except that, if you want to push the issue, take the van back where you bought it and ask them to demonstrate how to change a wheel. Your contract is with the dealer, and the legal onus is upon them to make amends. Tell them that you do expect to be able to do this using the equipment supplied, since you can have no control over where, or when, you may have to do so. It is their responsibility to find you a reasonable, safe, workable, remedy. You could add that you have already contacted Swift who, in terms, told you you were doing it wrong. The dealer should contact Swift for instructions on the method to follow, and can then report back to Swift on how they get on if it doesn't work, or to you to demonstrate what to do if it does. Lugging around a spare wheel that you can't use for its intended purpose is completely pointless, and from what you say, a breakdown service would be similarly challenged. If you specifically asked for the spare wheel because you didn't want the can of gunk puncture remedy, you could ask for at least a refund of the cost of the fitted spare. If you agreed to buy that van on condition it could be fitted with a spare, I suppose you could consider a claim against the dealer for breach of contract. If the van comes with the spare as standard, then it seems Swift need persuading to initiate modifications to make it usable. If the sales literature says it has a spare, especielly if they promote that as an advantage, then the dealer could be in breach of the Trade Descriptions Act. In either case I'd suggest taking some legal advice from Citizen's Advice or Trading Standards before pursuing either route. However, better by far to quietly find out where you stand legally (either of the above should be able to give general advice on this), and then try persuasion with the dealer to put right what, on the basis of what you say, is clearly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdybiker66 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Thankyou Brian , I bought it private so don't have that luxury , I will try citizens advice but I think their hands will be tied. Thanks for trying to help , I should think somewhere out there I should find a suitable trim I could retro fit, its just finding it! Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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