lennyhb Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Go away Roger :D If it wasn't for spelling checkeers I woulldnnn't be able to post on heer don't expect mee to get the grammmer wright as well. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 We have a result! :-D They have admitted their mistake and are issuing a 13 plate! I tell you it helps writing to the Chief executive! rather then dealing with multitudes of know nothing numpties.... I will get confirmation of plate in an hour which means I can get it insured, and paper work will follow :-S So still cant get plates without paperwork but as least we are getting there...They really have not got a clue. Thanks again to Kirbys for personally investigating and having more luck than me with an Kafkaesque government monolith that is DVLA Swansea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Result.. ;-) ...and I wonder what joys we'll have in store when they drop "tax discs" and switch it all to being "computerized"..? "..No..I'm sorry Sir..you are not showing on our system...Well!?..there's no need to use that language Sir!..." (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-03-19 12:34 PM We have a result! :-D They have admitted their mistake and are issuing a 13 plate! I tell you it helps writing to the Chief executive! rather then dealing with multitudes of know nothing numpties.... I will get confirmation of plate in an hour which means I can get it insured, and paper work will follow :-S So still cant get plates without paperwork but as least we are getting there...They really have not got a clue. Thanks again to Kirbys for personally investigating and having more luck than me with an Kafkaesque government monolith that is DVLA Swansea! Well done, if you don't want to wait for paperwork that could take a week, plenty of suppliers on ebay you can get the plates from next day delivery and they are legal ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Great idea Lenny! will do that today :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-03-19 12:34 PM We have a result! :-D They have admitted their mistake and are issuing a 13 plate! I tell you it helps writing to the Chief executive! rather then dealing with multitudes of know nothing numpties.... I will get confirmation of plate in an hour which means I can get it insured, and paper work will follow :-S So still cant get plates without paperwork but as least we are getting there...They really have not got a clue. Thanks again to Kirbys for personally investigating and having more luck than me with an Kafkaesque government monolith that is DVLA Swansea! I'm going to suggest (with considerable trepidation) that the DVLA's original argument - that your motorhome should have a UK registration-number based on its date of manufacture rather than its date of first-registration abroad - makes logical sense. When Brian Kirby spoke to the DVLA he argued that "The registration plate is intended to reflect the time the vehicle has been in use". The DVLA (eventually) agreed with that view, though were unable to say where this principle was documented. When a 'NEW' vehicle is imported to the UK, the registration-number it is assigned reflects the date when it is first UK-registered. Additionally, the date when the imported vehicle's first MOT-test is due is linked to the date when the vehicle is first UK-registered not to the vehicle's build-date. However (as I said earlier) the date when an imported USED vehicle's UK MOT-test is due is based on the vehicle's date of manufacture, not on its 'foreign' date of first registration, with the DofT's importing instructions stating "A motor caravan, that has been used on roads outside Britain before being imported, is subject to annual MoT testing three years after the date of manufacture." I'm not sure if you or Brian were aware of this stipulation, but, as the 'dating' of the UK registration-number and MOT-test for a new imported vehicle are linked (based on the date of first registration), it's logical that, for a used imported vehicle, the date of the MOT-test and any age-related UK registration-number assigned to that vehicle should be similarly linked, but based on the build-date that 'controls' when the MOT-test is required. Basically, as your Possl's build-date was 22 January 2013 (and its first MOT-test should be due in January 2016) It's logical for the UK registration-number that was assigned to your motorhome to have a "62" indicator. If the argument is to be put forward that a used vehicle imported to the UK should have a UK registration-plate based on its 'foreign' date of first registration because the vehicle might have been kicking around in a compound for ages before it was first registered abroad, exactly the same argument could be made for the date of the UK MOT-test to be based on the 'foreign' date of first registration not on the vehicle's build-date - but that's not what happens. It's likely that the DVLA will assign an age-related UK registration-number to a used imported vehicle based on whatever information they are provided with. So, if there's no 'foreign' date of registration available but a build-date is known, they'll use the build-date - or vice versa. In your case the DVLA had both dates and chose to base the UK registration-number on the build-date. I would have thought that there should be clear documented guidance within the DVLA itself about the procedure to follow, but there seems to be absolutely nothing in the public domain about which date should take precedence. As there's apparently no official documented statement that an imported used vehicle should have its UK registration-plate based on its 'foreign' date of registration, you are perhaps fortunate to have managed to obtain the later number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 To be honest Derek my response is..... Whatever :-D It will have it first serviced on its B day in May and in 2 years its first MOT, unless I hear different from DVLA... if it needs to be in January so be it. Look they have not a clue what they are doing, The directors secretary told me over the phone today that the complaints department had examined paperwork and agreed that registration should have been given from May, corresponding with date in first German registration..hence the 13 plate...thats all I really wanted. and as none of this stuff seems to be written down or traceable as fact their end, chaos will continue to reign I guess :D We really need to become more Italian, they don't take officialdom seriously not even the police..Enlightened self interest, and civil disobedience against the continuing building of faceless bureaucracy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-03-19 3:53 PM To be honest Derek my response is..... Whatever :-D It will have it first serviced on its B day in May and in 2 years its first MOT, unless I hear different from DVLA... if it needs to be in January so be it... I've browsed through a lot of on-line discussions about UK-registering imported used vehicles and there seems to be no certain guidance about what's correct. Complaints tend to be the opposite of yours, with owners (normally of 'classic' vehicles) wanting UK registration numbers based on the date of manufacture rather than on date of first registration. The DofT's advice (quoted in my last posting) is that your Possl should be due for its first MOT-test in January 2016, but it would not surprise me if the due date will actually be based on the May 2013 'foreign' registration-date. If you 'tax' your Possl annually, you'll be looking at retaxing dates in March 2015 and March 2016. If the vehicle's MOT-test due-date is based on the date of manufacture, a valid MOT-test certificate will be demanded as part of the March 2016 retaxing exercise. If the vehicle's MOT-test due-date is based on the vehicle's 'foreign' date of first registration, a test-certificate won't be demanded in March 2016. As far as I'm aware you will get no advance warning from the DVLA or VOSA that an MOT-test will be needed at a particular date. Although it's possible to check on-line the MOT-test status of a vehicle requiring testing, I'm not sure if it's possible to check on-line the date when a UK-registered vehicle is due for its first MOT-test. Both of my vehicles require an MOT-test so I can't experiment, but you could try inputting your Possl's UK registration-number and V5C registration certificate number into the following webpage and see what happens http://motinfo.direct.gov.uk/internet/jsp/ECSID-Internet-Status-Request.jsp Certainly, somewhere in the relevant computer system, there will be a date recorded that defines (rightly or wrongly) when your Possl's forst MOT-test is due. Legality-wise, it's much more important that you become aware of when your motorhome is due for its first MOT-test, than whether its age-related registration-number relates to 2012 or 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Thanks Derek... but if you think I am contacting DVLA yet again after this experience? :-D saying that now that I am in contact with top echelons I can write and ask.....and just have Lenny thanks to you brainwave re plates, they arrived this morning plus paperwork and tax disc from DVLA. I am now on the road! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Brought our last van in Belgium new van due from same dealer, never found warranty issues a problem send dealer a photo so he can organise a replacement part, either get him to post it or have a nice long weekend in Belgium. On last van had a problem with the spare wheel mounting, dealer told me to I could get it sorted locally and send him the bill. At the time we brought the last van the Belgium dealer was closer than the UK dealer anyway. Also annual damp check €60 against £180 in UK add on a ferry crossing at £70, still 60 quid in pocket pays for the weekend in Belgium or France. (lol) As for getting the van back, from Belgium dealer drives it to the port for you, in Germany you do have to take the risk with 3rd party insurance. You can get it transported back I know someone who did that from Southern Germany cost £1500, when you are saving up to 15 grand on the van its affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-03-20 10:51 AM . Also annual damp check €60 against £180 in UK add on a ferry crossing at £70, still 60 quid in pocket pays for the weekend in Belgium or France. (lol) . Lenny, I always knew your savings were quoted with very 'blue tinted' glasses but this seems to confirm it. £180 for a damp check, who the hell pays that, you can get a full habitation check anywhere for around a £100 and a simple damp check for much less, locally to me £30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Really wrong thread Eddy to discuss importing, has been done to death on here, plenty of info if you use search function. But basically insurer gives fully comp 30 day cover note based on VIN, valid from when van hits UK shore. German dealer supplies 3rd party insurance/export plates (approx £150). Yes LHD..would not drive anything else..why would I, when we save 20/30% in the process and almost exclusively travel in Europe. Agricultural ride down to over inflated tyres..now much better. Vehicle side covered here by warranty. Have been doing this a fair while, with vans whats to go wrong, I wanted an extra spot light, turned up in post in 2 days. its different with CB as they have more issues, I would only buy a CB in Belgium, any issues including yearly damp checks can be done on holiday journey. But a quality built German panel van, why would I need to take it back. Adria I just sold had zero issues in 3 years...Not bothered to be honest have saved enough in the process. edit: just saw Lennys thread, if concerned regards driving back 3rd party, German dealer will drive to Calais for you for about 450 € last time i enquired for someone. not bad as you dont need the 200 € export plates and insurance. we like to do it ourselves and have a 4-7 day mini break on way back :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Eddy - 2014-03-20 11:25 AM Thanks for the info. Would make far more sense for us to have a left hooker as well, rarely do the UK. Your welcome...If that day comes..happy to help if need be :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Hymer UK in Preston operated a Hymer UK Club for people who bought vans from them and it provided them with discounted parts and servicing. It charged me up to £60 for a damp check and the certificate required to keep my water ingress warranty. Once the 6 year warranty expired, I used to get a damp check for £25 if part of the habitation service or free [think they forgot to put in on the bill!]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 rupert123 - 2014-03-20 11:00 AM lennyhb - 2014-03-20 10:51 AM . Also annual damp check €60 against £180 in UK add on a ferry crossing at £70, still 60 quid in pocket pays for the weekend in Belgium or France. (lol) . Lenny, I always knew your savings were quoted with very 'blue tinted' glasses but this seems to confirm it. £180 for a damp check, who the hell pays that, you can get a full habitation check anywhere for around a £100 and a simple damp check for much less, locally to me £30. I don't think so Henry €60 is only 50 quid and UK dealers claim they have to pay 40 quid for the sticker for the service book. Habitation checks aren't that necessary and Hymer do not require them for the Warranty only a damp check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 With regards to your original post judge :-D our 2013 van is on 62 plates we agreed it was alright as they hadn't received the newer ones yet!! :-S I hope we didn't make a booboo !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 With regards to your original post judge :-D our 2013 van is on 62 plates we agreed it was alright as they hadn't received the newer ones yet!! :-S I hope we didn't make a booboo !! it was the Oct 2012 but 2013 van AND we didn't use it until April!! What if we hadn't bought it then and it had stood at the dealers until the next year :-S what plates would it have had then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 If it was not registered until March 2013 should be a 13 plate but if before March 62 correct... Derek, I have news from the far West! Seems you were correct (as usual:-D)thanks for your interest... "following on from your request for clarification on when the vehicle will require a MOT, colleagues have advised that this will be due by 31/12/16" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 maggyd - 2014-03-20 4:10 PM With regards to your original post judge :-D our 2013 van is on 62 plates we agreed it was alright as they hadn't received the newer ones yet!! :-S I hope we didn't make a booboo !! it was the Oct 2012 but 2013 van AND we didn't use it until April!! What if we hadn't bought it then and it had stood at the dealers until the next year :-S what plates would it have had then? A 'new' vehicle's UK registration-number will reflect the date when its registration-number is assigned to it. With motorhomes, there is a tendency to refer to the vehicle's 'model-year' (eg. when a motorhome appears in its manufacturer's brochure for a specific year) but this has no relevance to a new motorhome's UK registration-number. The UK's current registration-plate format includes a two-figure age-identifier that covers a 6-month period and changes in March and in September. For '2012' registration-plates, the age-identifier "12" would apply to new vehicles UK-registered from March 2012 through August 2012, whlie the age-identifier "62" would apply to new vehicles UK-registered from September 2012 through February 2013. As I understand it, your new Autocruise motorhome was UK-registered in October 2012 and, as this was within the September 2012 through February 2013 period, it was correctly assigned a registration-number with a "62" age-identifier. If the Autocruise had not been bought by you and had not been UK-registered in October 2012, but had remained at the motorhome dealership for several more months and had finally been sold and UK-registered in March 2013, it would have been assigned a registration-number with a "13" age-identifier. The UK vehicle-registation system is discussed here http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_numberplates.html http://www.autotrader.co.uk/articles/2011/08/cars/complete-guide-to-numbeplates https://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_180212.pdf UK-registration of 'new' vehicles (imported or otherwise) is relatively straightforward, though one would think that the closure of DVLA local offices must have some sort of effect on a registration-number's first two characters (ie. the 'local memory tag'). https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/250142/INF259_151013.pdf UK-registering an imported 'used' vehicle is potentially far more complicated when it comes to assigning the appropriate 'age-related' UK registration-number. The advice (in the DVLA's INF106 document) regarding UK-registering an imported 'used' vehicle includes the requirement to provide "A non-GB registration document or certificate for your vehicle and any other papers you have relating to the vehicle, or a dating certificate from the manufacturer or other acceptable source." Presumably, if only a manufacturer's dating certificate is available or (perhaps less likely) only a non-GB registration document, the DVLA will assign an age-related registation-number based on the date shown on whichever certificate/document is provided. But there appears to be no guidance (on-line or in the DVLA's literature) as to which date has priority if a non-GB registration document AND a dating certificate from the manufacturer are provided. In Eddie's case a non-GB registration document (showing a May 2013 date) and a manufacturer's dating certificate (showing a January 2013 date) were both available and the DVLA initially assigned to his Possl motorhome a UK registration-number with a "62" age-identifier based on the vehicle's build-date on the manufacturer's certificate, rather than the "13" age-identifier that would reflect the May 2013 date on his non-GB registration document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Call this morning from DVLA Swanseeeeaaa,informing moi that my new V5 on the way! with correct 13 plate along with new tax disk!...Hmmm..have had it a week I says. Oh! they says..........Absolutely clueless, left hand dont know what right hand doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I got my V5 yesterday. Today, I got my tax disc and my supporting paperwork back and a letter saying I'll get my V5 within four weeks! They also kept my Spanish log book and technical certificate. They say they send it back to Spain. Hope it gets deregistered OK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Dealer has my new van in stock but can't get it ready for early next week so due to other commitments I won't be able to pick it up until after Easter. Me thinks might be worth a drive down to Swansea to make sure I get the paperwork right. Well I think they have an office there, they don't exactly make it public knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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