Auto Sleeper PVCs

[Colin Leake]

We are thinking of down sizing to a PVC some time next year. The one that on the face of it that would best suit us is an Auto Sleeper Kingham made on the long chassis with the French Bed giving lots of storage at the rear. Only two things that concern us is that they use the Peugeot base van with the 2.2 engine and have the bonded glass windows at the rear which make me wonder about condensation and possible overheating on hot days. We would go for larger 3l Fait engine but this does not appear to be an option. Comments from anyone who has experience of any Auto Sleeper PVC woUld be appreciated. We do like the fact that they use a gas tank mounted below the chassis thus freeing up the space that would be taken by the gas bottle locker. Can't understand why all makers of PVCs where space is at a premium don't do this.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Welcome to the wonderful world of panel van campers :D

 

what surprised me is our new 636 length Possl, the king size 1500 wide french bed does not have any more storage then our 6 metre transverse bed Adria....considering the water tank is not even over rear wheel arch, this came as a bit of a surprise. so make sure it is actually big enough....

 

I have the 150 Bhp 2.2 citroen and honestly there is plenty of power!

[colin]

The underslung gas tank seems like a good idea, there was one on the WildAx we hired, one of the few things we liked about van.

Have you seen/used that layout? The bed is only 1200 wide and the length is only 1900 with a corner cut out, would not suit us, also make sure you are happy with toilet/shower as I guess that is similarly tiny.

[Colin Leake]

We are hoping to be able to see one shortly one way or another. The bed is the same size as the one in our AutoTrail Apachie so it should be big enough. As to the storage underneath it we will only know when we see one.

 

We did look at the AutoTrail V series 620 but the rather odd draw type fridge is just plain impractable, the storage at the rear is very limited and ones wife could not understand why they neither provide a microwave nor any possibility of fitting one. Shame because in most other ways it's brilliant. Never mind may be they will do a mark 2 on the longer van with a rethink on those items such as the fridge and lack of microwave which have not been received very well. Getting rid of the gas bottle locker would be a good idea as well.

[mel wood]

Colin Leake - 2014-03-13 7:18 PM

 

the bonded glass windows at the rear which make me wonder about condensation and possible overheating on hot days .

 

We have had an Auto-Sleepers Symbol ES for over 5 years and have used it in all months with no problems regarding the windows.

 

A point worth noting though - we wouldn't recommend fitting a bike rack to the rear doors. After two and a half years we found that one of the doors had bent. Other folks have experienced the same problem.There are some threads dealing with this problem.

[Mel B]

Colin, have a look at the Autocruise Alto which has a similar French bed layout but with a half dinette and only 6m long. Or even some of the narrow low profile coachbuilts too (probably cheaper!).

 

The 2.2 should be more than sufficient for your needs. The 3ltr is, IMV, an unnecessary expense and would also eat into your payload ... and with only 392kg you need all that payload you can get!

[jhorsf]

No comparison between the 3litre and the 2.2 litre, on a comfortmatic box the 3 litre is brilliant the 2.2 is noisy and harsh in comparison

[Mike88]

jhorsf - 2014-03-14 2:06 AM

 

No comparison between the 3litre and the 2.2 litre, on a comfortmatic box the 3 litre is brilliant the 2.2 is noisy and harsh in comparison

 

No Comfortmatic on AutoSleeper vans. I would have bought one otherwise. I agree the 3 litre engine is brilliant but cannot compare it with the 2.2 (only the 2.3) but I think that engine has its faults and I believe euroserve has advised people against it.

[Derek Uzzell]

Colin Leake

 

There are PVC converters that offer the 3-litre motor (eg. Carthago and Globecar), but it's an expensive option nowadays, and a questionable choice for a PVC now that a more powerful 150bhp version of the Fiat 2.3litre powerplant is available that can also be matched with a Comfort-Matic gearbox.

 

The athermic glass windows were discussed here

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Athermic-glass/29461/

 

A GOOGLE-search on "Auto Sleeper athermic" will retrieve more information and I notice a comment that the glass has a privacy 'film' covering that may be vulnerable to damage.

 

The 20-litre LPG tank Auto-Sleepers fit will have added significantly to the vehicle's price and offers no more capacity than an 11kg LPG bottle. If interior space in a 6.36m-long PVC is so much at a premium that an expensive LPG tank must be slung under the floor, it has to be asked whether the interior design is optimum in my view. I'd rather have a gas-locker that can accommodate a 15kg-size Calor bottle and install an 11kg refillable canister.

[bolero boy]

Colin, we looked at one of these when they were announced at the NEC last October. I know they have moved the gas tank underneath so as to save space under the bed BUT do not think that you will get loads of space under there because you will not, in my opinion it was hopeless. Nowhere near what you get with a transverse or longitudinal PVC ned layout. The adjustable bed frame (a totally unnecessary compllication) just adds to the clutter. The available space should be good but is a huge disappointment as this is the primary area for large items.

Add to that the usual AS decor and it just didnt do it im afraid.

[gocro]

The Kingham may be slimmer but at 20' 9" is longer than a great many coachbuilts and probably not much more maneuverable.

[Guest JudgeMental]

bolero boy - 2014-03-14 9:27 AM

 

Colin, we looked at one of these when they were announced at the NEC last October. I know they have moved the gas tank underneath so as to save space under the bed BUT do not think that you will get loads of space under there because you will not, in my opinion it was hopeless. Nowhere near what you get with a transverse or longitudinal PVC ned layout. The adjustable bed frame (a totally unnecessary compllication) just adds to the clutter. The available space should be good but is a huge disappointment as this is the primary area for large items.

Add to that the usual AS decor and it just didnt do it im afraid.

 

I watched the MMM video and you get a glimpse under bed and there is hardly any storage and no access for rear doors. French beds with bathroom wedged next to it? hardly work in most CB let alone a van, and like you say the decor looks real cheap, an impractical cramped layout I think... I can only imagine the price. those windows would be enough to put me off..whats that about!lol

 

I did like the tilt up bed, but prefer gas in van has had a external tank once and it rusted badly (probably better these days) but you cant move to new van and they are expensive....

[Guest JudgeMental]

Here is the MM video plus shot of underbed storage..looks pretty poor...cant load photo as wrong format but its at end of video, you can freeze and view

 

 

 

[Mike88]

I thought the aim of a French bed was to avoid climbing over your partner in the middle of the night. This doesn't look possible in this van. Also the bed looks very narrow; I wouldn't fancy sleeping in that in temperatures of 40 degrees even though wife and I are slim. Otherwise the van looks very nice but agree that much of the underbed storage is taken up by the combi boiler.

[Derek Uzzell]

Mike88 - 2014-03-14 1:49 PM

 

I thought the aim of a French bed was to avoid climbing over your partner in the middle of the night...

 

There seems to be some debate about what a "French bed" actually is

 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_French_bed?#slide=1

 

Within the UK motorhome community, the term "French bed" has come to mean a double-bed positioned longitudinally at the rear of the vehicle, with one side of the bed against the side-wall of the motorhome. Basically, it's the common-or-garden 'fixed' bed arrangement.

 

Other bed-related motorhome terms are "island bed" where a longitudinally-positioned double bed is centralised at the rear of the motorhome and is easily accessible from both sides of the bed and from its foot. Or "semi-island bed" which is similar to an "island bed" but (usually because the bed is offset not centralised) cannot be accessed (or at least not accessed easily/fully) from one of the sides.

 

UK motorhome terminology can be imprecise. "Tag axle" is incorrectly used to describe Fiat-based motohomes with Al-Ko chassis and two rear axles, "low profile" motorhomes need not be low, etc.

[candapack]

JudgeMental - 2014-03-14 1:34 PM

 

Here is the MM video plus shot of underbed storage..looks pretty poor...cant load photo as wrong format but its at end of video, you can freeze and view

 

 

 

From video, agree underbed storage poor, especially when no access via rear doors.

Saw one recently "in the flesh", bed itself is pretty narrow, certainly no use for me and OH.

I always find it strange that in these video reviews, especially for vans where the bed is punted as a major feature, they never show anyone actually lying down - better yet, 2 people on a double bed. They recently had a group test of 6m. coachbuilts with drop down beds - again, hardly any time spent on the functionality of these beds.

[Colin Leake]

Mel B - 2014-03-13 10:58 PM

 

Colin, have a look at the Autocruise Alto which has a similar French bed layout but with a half dinette and only 6m long. Or even some of the narrow low profile coachbuilts too (probably cheaper!).

 

The 2.2 should be more than sufficient for your needs. The 3ltr is, IMV, an unnecessary expense and would also eat into your payload ... and with only 392kg you need all that payload you can get!

 

We did but the quality was awfull. Typical Swift Group. Lift out panels in the floor with a totally unfinished hole in the wood to lift them. Thin panel lining that was already wavy. No way could I be happy with that kind of quality. The Auto Sleeper has an option for a half dinette at the front which we may consider but it does lose storage space under the standard seat if this option is specified.

 

Problem with the so called narrow coachbuilds is that they all seem to have the very wide mirrors that are a pain in the but with our present AutoTrail.

 

What worries us with the 2.2 engine is not the power more potential reliability and relatively rough running compared with the 2.3 Fait engine.

[Guest JudgeMental]

As I have just changed from fiat to Citroen, yes it is for a moment rougher on start up. (Maybe because of bigger turbo on 150 bhp?) but once going it don't feel any different, and you really notice the extra bhp! You reall need to try one before spending this kind of money.....what is a real problem ( for now) is the maxi chassis which is a far more agricultural ride than last 3300kg adria.

[mirage]

We owned a Warwick for four years our final motorhome of three the previous two a Coachbuilt and an "A" Class, have now returned to a caravan. The Warwick was actually nice to drive, and little problem with suitability of roads.

Compared to our caravan it was a cold vehicle partly due to the glass windows and the steel body especially the rear doors, just a three season van in our opinion, cooking in cold weather resulted in condensation on the windows etc. if you did`nt take particular care with ventilation. The insulation did not cover the steel shell completely the reardoors, sliding door and various other parts were bare.

The quality of the conversion did not match the price, rear of van was soaked within two days of purchase due to leaking Heki seal, rear seats both came apart at seams, front roof locker on the drivers side dropped from roof about one centimeter, fortunately it did`nt drop.

Would I buy another PVC - no. overall lack of space no easier to park than a larger van, did like the steel body easy to keep clean but roof traps water around rooflights heki etc due its corrugated construction. Sliding door not ideal in heavy rain.

 

[Mel B]

Colin Leake - 2014-03-14 7:11 PM

 

Mel B - 2014-03-13 10:58 PM

 

Colin, have a look at the Autocruise Alto which has a similar French bed layout but with a half dinette and only 6m long. Or even some of the narrow low profile coachbuilts too (probably cheaper!).

 

The 2.2 should be more than sufficient for your needs. The 3ltr is, IMV, an unnecessary expense and would also eat into your payload ... and with only 392kg you need all that payload you can get!

 

We did but the quality was awfull. Typical Swift Group. Lift out panels in the floor with a totally unfinished hole in the wood to lift them. Thin panel lining that was already wavy. No way could I be happy with that kind of quality.

Actually it isn't made by 'Swift' per se! We have an Autocruise Accent, which is made by the same people as the Alto, not at the Swift factory but at the original Autocruise factory. We haven't had any major problems with the quality just daft things really such as:

 

- a bit of the edge trim on the cupboard above the cooker had come unstuck a bit

- the off-side underbed locker is in 2 sections (an upper storage area, and a lower one where the batteries are) but as there was no support in the centre of the battery section the upper storage area 'floor' flexed a bit so I added an extra support in the centre (this is now fitted as standard on later models)

- a couple of screws came out of one of the drawers but I just replaced them with some longer ones

- we did have the expected 'Autocruise christening' - the waste water pipe came adrift at the bottom (pulled out of it's connector) and at the top, and one of the kitchen tap feeds developed a bit of seeping due to a jubilee clip that came lose

- I strengthened the centre section of the cab floor between the seats as it didn't have much in (this is a Fiat 'fault' not Autocruise though)

 

Our Accent was one of the first, if not THE first, of the 2012 models produced, probably for the September 2011 NEC show, and as a consequence we don't have a couple of minor things that are actually standard on the 2012 production models. We have had other problems with the Fiat part but as we bought the van second hand (not quite 3 months old) I can't say that these were Autocruise's fault as I suspect it was the first owner who caused some of them!

 

We've had our van now since August 2012 and have spent around 14 weeks in total away in it, as well as day trips including our 3 dogs (one of them a heffalump) and we haven't had any problems with anything being damaged so the materials used must be a fairly good quality, certainly better than the Chausson we had. From some of the stuff that Autosleeper have produced in the past I would be much more wary of buying their product than another Autocruise PVC! :-S

[grahamw]

Interested also in the KIngham but have rejected it because I really want a PVC with the Comfortmatic gearbox. Have contacted Auto Sleepers about this and have had confirmation that as from September they will build to special order on the Fiat base with Comfortmatic gearbox. They realise that they have lost some orders by not doing this. They will still build for dealer stock on the Peugeot base and it may be that the version on the Fiat base may be more expensive as they will not not be purchasing Fiat vehicles in 'bulk'. They are currently negotiating prices with Fiat - will just have to wait and see.

[Mike88]

grahamw - 2014-03-15 7:28 AM

 

Interested also in the KIngham but have rejected it because I really want a PVC with the Comfortmatic gearbox. Have contacted Auto Sleepers about this and have had confirmation that as from September they will build to special order on the Fiat base with Comfortmatic gearbox. They realise that they have lost some orders by not doing this. They will still build for dealer stock on the Peugeot base and it may be that the version on the Fiat base may be more expensive as they will not not be purchasing Fiat vehicles in 'bulk'. They are currently negotiating prices with Fiat - will just have to wait and see.

 

I raised this with the Managing Director of Autosleepers at the NEC a couple of years ago. As I already owned an Autosleeper which had given me 7 years absolutely trouble free service with everything well made and screwed down I wanted another in the form of the Warwick Duo. I was told that they were unable to provide any model with a Comfortmatic box. I pointed out that Autosleepers tend to attract older buyers that are loyal to the brand and such buyers tend to want auto gearboxes especially as they are becoming increasingly popular. He told me that they had a deal with Peugeot that Fiat were unable to match so I had to go elsewhere.

 

My guess is that if they stick with Peugeot and buy an occasional Fiat in such small numbers for conversion the price premium might be excessive.

 

I can't understand this adverse comment about Autosleepers from Mel:

 

"From some of the stuff that Autosleeper have produced in the past I would be much more wary of buying their product than another Autocruise PVC. "

 

In my experience Autosleepers are very well put together and that probably accounts for the price premium you pay.

 

I querie also the comment that Autocruise are not made by "Swift per se" . It was my understanding that all panel vans, even my 3 year old Mondial, are made in the Autocruise factory owned by Swift.

[Mel B]

Mike88 - 2014-03-15 8:29 AM

 

I can't understand this adverse comment about Autosleepers from Mel:

 

"From some of the stuff that Autosleeper have produced in the past I would be much more wary of buying their product than another Autocruise PVC. "

 

In my experience Autosleepers are very well put together and that probably accounts for the price premium you pay.

We have seen some shoddy Autosleeper models over the years, warping doors, trim coming off, rough edges, bits and pieces already showing signs of wear or damage, so I can only comment on what we've found. We actually did very seriously consider getting a Mondial in 2010 and again in 2012 (when we got our current Autocruise Accent) but there were a few things which we weren't happy with and one of those I seem to remember was the quality of some of bits and pieces.

 

I querie also the comment that Autocruise are not made by "Swift per se" . It was my understanding that all panel vans, even my 3 year old Mondial, are made in the Autocruise factory owned by Swift.

By my 'per se' comment, I meant that although they are part of Swift, they are NOT made at their factory (a stone's throw from me!) but put together by what were the Autocruise staff over the water, so the quality problems with Swift produces (ie those made at THEIR factory) don't necessarily occur with the Autocruise offerings built elsewhere by different people. :-S

[LordThornber]

We viewed the Kingham yesterday, an admittedly rank outside contender for the next van. After AutoSleeper ownership of 11 years it was clear to see build quality of a high standard on display.

 

Definitely not for us though, the washroom was (for us) bordering on the unusable and I'm more Twiggy these days than Big Daddy :)

 

A lovely van though, very nice piece of kit.

 

Martyn.

[Colin Leake]

Mel B - 2014-03-14 9:53 PM

 

Colin Leake - 2014-03-14 7:11 PM

 

Mel B - 2014-03-13 10:58 PM

 

Colin, have a look at the Autocruise Alto which has a similar French bed layout but with a half dinette and only 6m long. Or even some of the narrow low profile coachbuilts too (probably cheaper!).

 

The 2.2 should be more than sufficient for your needs. The 3ltr is, IMV, an unnecessary expense and would also eat into your payload ... and with only 392kg you need all that payload you can get!

 

We did but the quality was awfull. Typical Swift Group. Lift out panels in the floor with a totally unfinished hole in the wood to lift them. Thin panel lining that was already wavy. No way could I be happy with that kind of quality.

Actually it isn't made by 'Swift' per se! We have an Autocruise Accent, which is made by the same people as the Alto, not at the Swift factory but at the original Autocruise factory. We haven't had any major problems with the quality just daft things really such as:

 

- a bit of the edge trim on the cupboard above the cooker had come unstuck a bit

- the off-side underbed locker is in 2 sections (an upper storage area, and a lower one where the batteries are) but as there was no support in the centre of the battery section the upper storage area 'floor' flexed a bit so I added an extra support in the centre (this is now fitted as standard on later models)

- a couple of screws came out of one of the drawers but I just replaced them with some longer ones

- we did have the expected 'Autocruise christening' - the waste water pipe came adrift at the bottom (pulled out of it's connector) and at the top, and one of the kitchen tap feeds developed a bit of seeping due to a jubilee clip that came lose

- I strengthened the centre section of the cab floor between the seats as it didn't have much in (this is a Fiat 'fault' not Autocruise though)

 

Our Accent was one of the first, if not THE first, of the 2012 models produced, probably for the September 2011 NEC show, and as a consequence we don't have a couple of minor things that are actually standard on the 2012 production models. We have had other problems with the Fiat part but as we bought the van second hand (not quite 3 months old) I can't say that these were Autocruise's fault as I suspect it was the first owner who caused some of them!

 

We've had our van now since August 2012 and have spent around 14 weeks in total away in it, as well as day trips including our 3 dogs (one of them a heffalump) and we haven't had any problems with anything being damaged so the materials used must be a fairly good quality, certainly better than the Chausson we had. From some of the stuff that Autosleeper have produced in the past I would be much more wary of buying their product than another Autocruise PVC! :-S

 

Now look here you're getting me very confused. Mind I must admit as my wife would tell you I do wake up confused most mornings. You seem to be telling me how wonderful the quality of Auto Cruise conversions are then going on to provide a list of faults that would suggest quite the opposite.

 

Whilst I'm on the subject of being confused I see that Andrex are no claiming the have made their product stronger to last longer. Now I can see making it stronger would be a good thing but for,the life of me I can't see how it would make it last longer. Every time I see the add it drives me mad. Any ideas anyone.