Caravan Club. At it again.

[pepe63xnotuse]

K9GYN - 2014-03-29 11:03 AM

 

I have emailed CC ref parking on pitch relative to peg Have not received a reply -- problem for me is foreign MH so hab door is on our offside Like so many others I see the current dictact as a problem that has not been thought through So it looks as though me to not renewing membership

 

I'm not sure to which "current dictate" you are referring but our last van had an off-side hab' door and on the most recent half a dozen or so occasions that we used main CC 'sites(not CLs), were we always asked which side the door was located..and then asked to pull on as was appropriate to the pitch layout....

...and this always meant that our Hab' door faced away from the neighbours' door and/or faced any side grass/awning area...Given a choice, this is how I would like to pitch anyway.

 

However,in the past, we have had an occasion where we had been faced with a "You must reverse on"(caravan-style)approach, which would've left us staring into the neighbours door/awning.

 

Of cause,we may have just been lucky with our most recent visits...but I would suggest that before anyone cancels anything, that they just check the actual facts(maybe join/post on the CC forum?) rather than just being influenced by any anti-CC internet tittle-tattle.. Most of which tends to come from those who claim to have never gone near the CC for the last 10-20 years anyway, if at all!.. or from those criticising them for something the C&CC did.. . (lol)

[Bulletguy]

LordThornber - 2014-03-29 6:32 AM

 

Bulletguy, the OP had been camping offsite/free/wild in Ribblehead.

 

He went into Hawes Village where the CC site is to empty his loo after discovering his usual emptying point in the Village was closed.

 

As I said something like 4 posts into this thread, there'll be some mileage in this one :D

 

Martyn

 

 

Yes i realise he wasn't actually onsite but do feel, particularly as he was obviously able to show he was a CC member, that it was a very bad attitude from the site to tell the OP he could only dump his waste there if he donated £5 to the local Mountain Rescue fund. Had they just said "a donation" and left the amount up to the OP, then ok fair enough....if that had been me i'd have had a grin about it, stuck 20pence in the pot, emptied my cassette and gone away and forgot about it.

 

Of course, all of us who regularly travel in Europe know all to well that the UK is stuck in a time warp when it comes to catering for MH 'facilities' such as grey water waste dumping or chemical toilet waste. Even for that matter.....taking on fresh water which many Forecourt stations won't allow. I was stopped from 'tanking up' with fresh water at a Morrison store once and the woman came out and actually told me off! When i asked what the problem was she said, "we get too many people with Motorhomes trying to use our water and it's metered so the Manager does not allow it".

 

 

[Rayjsj]

K9GYN - 2014-03-29 11:03 AM

 

I have emailed CC ref parking on pitch relative to peg Have not received a reply -- problem for me is foreign MH so hab door is on our offside Like so many others I see the current dictact as a problem that has not been thought through So it looks as though me to not renewing membership

 

 

I too am a Caravan Club member, The rule about 'the peg' is all about distance between units, and fire safety regulations, There is NO rule about whether you drive in or back in. So, if you have a van with the Hab door on the Offside, Drive in. The only site where i was told I should back in was at Sandringham, where (they said) it was a 'Sandringham Estate' rule, to allow a quick exit (which I thought was utter tosh,and told them so). Ray

 

We use CC sites a lot, mainly for the Disabled access, and I fully intend to either drive in or back in, whichever suits US best, up to the peg of course, I will let you know the results.

[StuartO]

K9GYN - 2014-03-29 11:03 AM

 

I have emailed CC ref parking on pitch relative to peg Have not received a reply -- problem for me is foreign MH so hab door is on our offside Like so many others I see the current dictact as a problem that has not been thought through So it looks as though me to not renewing membership

 

You might not get a reply!

 

This is a quote from a long discussion about this subject on CC's Club Together which should cover the ground adequately for you. You can dirve in or reverse in as you wish and so your offside habitation door should never be a problem.

 

The relevant part of the discussion is here:

 

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/community/discussions/sites-touring/uk-sites-touring/Site-pitches-and-spacing-FAQs/rt/438398/?p=70

 

But this is a copy of the relevant post:

 

The following is as near as you can hope for at present to an official explanation of how CC's Pitch Spacing System is supposed to work. Following a conversation I had with the relevant senior member of CC Staff, I wrote the following as a draft and it has been seen and corrected by CC Senior Staff - who for some reason I can't work out want me to put it on here rather than do it themselves.

 

Here goes:

 

I had some revealing information “from the horse’s mouth” recently about pitch spacing and how it’s supposed to work, which I will pass on. CC may in due course reissue its official information but in the meantime this background information might help others, as it helped me.

 

CC’s aim is not to regulate tightly at all; it wants members to be free to use a pitch to enjoy, including being able to face the nicer outlook and so on. There are guideline for Wardens, who are the final arbiters of safety and reasonableness on a Site, but apart from guiding Wardens in how best to achieve that, CC’s doesn’t see itself as having any pitching “rules”.

 

There is of course an overriding safety requirement to have spacing between pitched units to minimise the risk of fire spreading and provide some privacy. There are around 1,400 fires in caravans each year in UK (not on CC Sites of course!) so it is not an insignificant threat. One fire started in a caravan awning in 2012 and spread extremely quickly to the nearby car and both were completely consumed. The occupants of the caravan were lucky to get out.

 

The official (now Natural England) spacing guidelines haven’t changed for years and years and CC continues to adhere to them. They require six metres between habitable (sleep-in) camping units. Adjacent rows can be staggered and this way the “corner-to-corner” separation (of sleep-in habitable camping units) can be three metres rather than six. Three metres is also however the minimum empty spacing between pitched outfits, so you can’t have staggered rows of caravans at 3 metre intervals.

 

On CC Sites the pitching plan exploits and when necessary accommodates the geographical features of the location so the pitches are by no means squeezed in at the maximum possible density which the separation guideline would allow. Inevitably some pitches end up with more “elbow room” than others, which provides choice for members and options for Wardens to accommodate, subject to availability, any special requests – for example easier access or a bit more elbow room for a wheelchair user.

 

In order to achieve the necessary spacing, CC assumes that camping units will occupy a pitch longwise in. CC also works to the assumption of a standard unit of 2.5 metres. An allowance is also made for a towing vehicle which is 2.5 metres wide parked alongside the camping unit with 1 metre gap in between. Caravan-type awnings are assumed to require up to 3 metres of extra width. The total pitch width for an awning pitch is therefore 2.5+2.5+1+3 =9 metres and with three metres spacing to the next unit plus a bit of spare. Pitching pegs are therefore placed at least 12 metres apart for awning pitches and at least 9 metres apart for non-awning pitches.

 

The size and spacing of awning pitches will also work for motorhomes together with any awning or canopy they might erect and any car or trailer they might tow. Non-awning pitches allow for a towing car alongside a caravan and for the use of a canopy by a motorhome if it doesn’t need space for a trailer or car. An extra-wide camping unit, such as one with slide-outs which double its width, might not have enough pitch width for a canopy or awning. Essentially a non-awning pitch gives you six metres of pitch width and an awning pitch gives you nine – although in each case the camping unit has to be on the peg to achieve the requisite 6 metre spacing from the camping unit on the next pitch.

 

In practice, because of geographical factors on a site, many pitches will be more widely spaced than the minimum and this gives Wardens some room for discretion about what he or she can allow on a pitch and to accommodate exceptionally wide units, like American RVs or caravans with slide-outs. The aim will always be to allow maximum enjoyment of a pitch with reasonable privacy for neighbours. There are no “rules”, just procedures giving guidance for Wardens, who always have the final say anyway.

 

The pitching peg is deliberately placed 1.25 metres to the left of the centre f a pitch, i.e. half the assumed width of a caravan, as an aid to reversing in, if that’s what the person using the pitch chooses to do. This offset has no other significance and it is recognised that an offset to the left won’t always help with reversing because of one-way road circulations on Sites – but at least it will help sometimes.

 

Members are always free to go nose first or reverse into a pitch, as they choose, to enjoy the outlook or whatever, as long as they position correctly on the peg in order to centralise the camping unit on the pitch. This means ending up with the peg on the far left corner of the camping unit, looking at the pitch from the approach road side. Because the peg is positioned to place the camping unit centrally on the pitch, it doesn’t matter whether the awning or car or trailer goes to the left or right as long as separation is maintained .

 

Smaller camping units, like some trailer tents and camper vans, may, subject to the Warden’s agreement, pitch off the peg and/or across the pitch if it makes sense to do so, as long as they can still achieve 6 metre separation from correctly positioned adjacent camping units.

 

Clearly Members should not normally park their car on the awning side of their caravan because it would then probably be in the 3 metres of clear space which must be maintained between adjacent pitches, but extra flexibility can sometimes be achieved by parking the car alongside (but not in) the roadway in front of the camping unit, as long as it doesn’t block the road or the Warden directs otherwise.

 

CC’s aim is to provide maximum enjoyment and flexibility, as long as the arrangement a Member chooses is consistent with the centralisation on the pitch which the peg facilitates and doesn’t extend into the 3 metres of empty space between pitches, that’s OK. If you fail to pitch your camping unit on the peg, even by as little as a metre, you could easily end up causing difficulties for the occupants of adjacent pitches when they arrive after you. It’s your responsibility to pitch centrally by using the peg, not theirs to squeeze into what you have left after spreading yourself out liberally.

 

It’s best not to regard your pitch as your castle and to get your measuring tape out and demand of your neighbour that he moves his car closer to his caravan or hauls in his dog chain to prevent any encroachment on your “territory”, because you are after all sharing a camping site with other people while you are there, rather than enjoying some sort of temporary exclusive lease on a piece of land. If you are at all unhappy, just have a quiet word with the Warden, who is there to help if possible.

 

[Bulletguy]

Eddy - 2014-03-29 5:41 PM

 

The lady at Morrisons may just have a point, but you're correct of course the UK is way behind much of mainland Europe, it will in my view never change, the two large clubs being instrumental in that, that's why once again like many thousands of Motorhome users we will be crossing that short strip of water, and breathing a huge sigh of relief to encounter exactly the opposite attitude to us motor home users just 20 odd miles away, and with a little effort find gems such as this in the French Pyrenees where we spent a lovely week without needing to be on a peg...............that's the missus sat outside our Ih panel van on the far right.

 

 

To be honest Eddy, in my opinion we've brought much of it on ourselves with our peculiar obsession over "rules and regs" and you don't need to go much further than reading through some of the posts on this forum to see that either! There will always be someone somewhere ready to tell you must do this or you must not do that, and if there isn't 'a rule', you can be damn sure one will soon be made up!

 

Like you, i know just how it feels to cross that 'short strip of water' to the other side where i can relax and enjoy myself without being brow beaten by batty folk waving their rule books around!

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Except, it seems to me that the major obsessing is by those who find the rules irksome, or simply don't understand, or agree with, the reasons they exist.

 

While I agree there are those who seem to like making rules because they take perverse pleasure from making others conform with them, most, surely, are the result of experience, and reflect no more than a desire to prevent a repetition of misfortune.

 

Besides all of which I'm not so sure that the UK is "rule centre global". I rather think Germany has us beaten into a cocked hat when it comes to being rule-bound!

 

We live in a relatively highly populated country, and the great majority of us live in cities. Most of the rules are there to promote harmony with our neighbours. They are the way in which the unreasonable can be made to behave more reasonably. Whether that is a bad thing depends somewhat on whether what one is doing, and when, is accepted as reasonable, and whether one is prepared to accept that someone else is being annoyed by it, and stop.

[ips]

We were on a cc site in scotland 3 years ago in our MH late afternoon a knock on van door and a cc warden demanded I move my van over 10" as I wasnt central or whatever to the marker peg. "You avin a laugh" said I "no" says he "good luck with that pal" says I, and closed the door. Un bloody believable.

[Guest pelmetman]

lennyhb - 2014-03-29 10:55 AM

 

pelmetman - 2014-03-29 7:54

 

Although I may have to rejoin this year :'( ............as our tugger friends have booked us in for a fortnight on Oban CC site for our annual get together 8-).................

 

 

Deepest condolences sorry to here about your misfortune . (lol)

 

Guess what arrived in the post today :D ...................an invite to rejoin with no £10 administration fee and a free night camping ;-)....................So that's 44 quid plus 13 nights at Oban :-S.................

 

Probably about the same as I spent for a month in Spain this January 8-)................

[Bulletguy]

Brian Kirby - 2014-03-29 7:14 PM

 

Except, it seems to me that the major obsessing is by those who find the rules irksome, or simply don't understand, or agree with, the reasons they exist.

 

 

I think you will find most people treat silly "rules" with the contempt they deserve.

 

Come on Brian.......surely even you can see the absolute battiness of the issue OP raised?

 

Five quid for a fully paid up CC member to dump his crap? *-)

 

Would have been much cheaper to go to a public loo and dump it there though it wouldn't surprise me to find there will be "rules" forbidding you to put crap down the crap drain. Being British it's the kind of 'logic' i'm used to having to put up with here.

 

 

ips - 2014-03-29 7:36 PM

 

We were on a cc site in scotland 3 years ago in our MH late afternoon a knock on van door and a cc warden demanded I move my van over 10" as I wasnt central or whatever to the marker peg. "You avin a laugh" said I "no" says he "good luck with that pal" says I, and closed the door. Un bloody believable.

 

 

Obviously been spying on you through his Theodolite. :D

 

Assuming the marker peg wasn't sunk in at a ridiculous depth (which it probably was to stop marker peg theft!), i'd have pulled the peg out and moved that 10"........using a tape measure......naturally. ;-)

 

It has a tendency to confound and upset the "rule makers". ;-)

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

Bulletguy - 2014-03-29 11:51 PM

 

Would have been much cheaper to go to a public loo and dump it there though it wouldn't surprise me to find there will be "rules" forbidding you to put crap down the crap drain. Being British it's the kind of 'logic' i'm used to having to put up with here.

 

 

 

Maybe you could carry out a sustained practical test?...and just try repeatedly emptying your cassette using a varied set of locations (e.g Public loos...lifting various "drain" covers etc? ).

Preferably these tests need to be carried out somewhere really close to where you live(ie.Your public loos, the manhole covers in your local streets, maybe the loos at your local petrol/service station etc?)....that way you would be in the best position to gain and measure, any "feedback" you may encounter...

(...because for this "experiment",there seems little point in just dumping somewhere and then not sticking around to see any repercussions, does there? ;-))

 

....and then report back on how you got on...? ;-)

 

 

[StuartO]

Bulletguy - 2014-03-29 11:51 PM

 

I think you will find most people treat silly "rules" with the contempt they deserve.

 

Come on Brian.......surely even you can see the absolute battiness of the issue OP raised?

 

Five quid for a fully paid up CC member to dump his crap? *-)

 

Would have been much cheaper to go to a public loo and dump it there though it wouldn't surprise me to find there will be "rules" forbidding you to put crap down the crap drain. Being British it's the kind of 'logic' i'm used to having to put up with here.

 

Obviously been spying on you through his Theodolite. :D

 

Assuming the marker peg wasn't sunk in at a ridiculous depth (which it probably was to stop marker peg theft!), i'd have pulled the peg out and moved that 10"........using a tape measure......naturally. ;-)

 

It has a tendency to confound and upset the "rule makers". ;-)

 

 

So you decide for yourself which rules (and laws?) to obey and you sometimes show open contempt for them.

 

You regard public toiletes as places where you are entitled to dump your toilet tank? It's your right to do so is it, because it's a "public" toilet?

 

Use any public toilet would you, even inside a shopping centre or supermarket? Walk in openly and unashamedly - or would you wrap the cassette in a bag to make it look less obvious what you were up to?

 

Sneak your toilet cassette into a Starbucks too if necessary would you, on the grounds that you once bought a coffee there, so you are a stakeholder in the place - or alternatively that Starbucks don't pay their taxes, so they deserve it? Or walk into a Tesco supermarket to do the same, where folk are buying their food? How far would you go to exercise your rights to dump your toilet free of charge?

 

And if CC look like they are being silly (to you) when you are using their facilities, you would openly rebel and behave like a smart arse to the Warden, refusing to cooperate? Maybe that particular guy was being a jobsworth wanting a ten inch realignment but he is trying to do his job and he probably did ask politely enough, so why not go along with it, even if you cannot see the need, when he's trying to do his job? It would only take a few moments. Complain to CC afterwards if you want to but why be awkward and unpleasant in a place where you (and everyone else) are there to relax and enjoy?

 

Where do you draw the line in this freedom you grant yourself to behave like a smart arse bully boy (knowing the Warden would be depending on your cooperation) and make unauthorised use of other people's property? There isn't very much difference is there, between behaving like this and being an outlaw in other ways, like some Travellers do? It's only shades of grey.

 

Go a step further why not, dump your toilet on the verge of a lay by, leave a note when you dump it, explaining that you are a free spirit, an anarchist exerising your freedoms because you don't believe in rules unless they suit you personally. Anonymously of course, you wouldn't want to risk being caught and shamed for your actions, or to have anyone dump their toilet on your property.

 

Sadly lots of people behave arrogantly and in a selfish and discouteous way these days. And that's likely to give motorhomers, especially wild campers, a bad name and spoil it for all of us. :-(

 

Alternatively, if you like wild camping, carry a spare toilet cassette, so you'll be more likely to be able to avoid dumping on others and take your stuff home, where you can put it into your own toilet bowl.

[capcloser]

But surely there is no real cost to the CC if they allow the odd member to empty their waste so cant see the big deal,the CC is rule crazy for the sake of it,at Kelling Heath not a club site we take the 5th wheeler once a year we cant park on their marker so we tell office when we arrive and warden helps us park so they are happy so are we.Have no problem following rules just sometimes understanding them B-)

[capcloser]

Also leaving the Peterborough show last year it looked like practically everyone lets there grey waste out on the road when they leave,it caused a jam up at gate cos they all stopped to close the valve,although you can empty grey waste in a hedge i believe.Met a guy there in a big rv who used a macerator and let ALL waste run through a hosepipe to the hedge,there wasn't any smell admittedly but couldnt see how it worked anyone got one?

[Guest Had Enough]

capcloser - 2014-03-30 11:36 AM

 

But surely there is no real cost to the CC if they allow the odd member to empty their waste so cant see the big deal,the CC is rule crazy for the sake of it,at Kelling Heath not a club site we take the 5th wheeler once a year we cant park on their marker so we tell office when we arrive and warden helps us park so they are happy so are we.Have no problem following rules just sometimes understanding them B-)

 

So what other rules does the CC have that private sites, both here and abroad don't? And of course there's a cost to the CC. Many sites have cesspits which need emptying and they will fill up faster if anyone can use them. And do you really think that if it was allowed it would just be the 'odd member'?

 

But why stop there? If someone has been wild camping why not let them nip in and empty their cassette? Whilst they are there they could fill up with water and why not let them have a shower, after all, that doesn't cost much does it?

 

And let's not worry about the warden's time whilst he has to raise the barrier and then check that they are actually members and have a card to prove it. I mean, they've nothing else to do have they?

 

Membership of the CC includes many things but it doesn't include the right to use site facilities that you haven't paid for - is that unreasonable? The C&CC does let its members fill up with water and empty their cassettes but charges £5 for the privilege.

 

The ones who moan about rules will be the first to complain if someone was driving too fast past their pitch or playing loud music late at night. As has been said, some people think that it's morally acceptable to only follow rules that suit them, bugger everyone else.

 

Next time I'm on a French, Spanish or German site I'll photograph the extensive rules that they all have. These are invisible though to some members here who have those special rose-tinted glasses where Europe is concerned. All the height barriers along the Med, all the bans on wild camping on most French islands, aires that charge almost as much as some small sites for next to no facilities, their glasses don't allow them to notice these.

 

I spend three months a year abroad but every year we enjoy a holiday in a part of Britain that we haven't really explored, from the Hebrides to Somerset, from Norfolk to New Quay (Wales). We mix wild camping in the remoter places to sites in others and have never experienced any problems. It's really not difficult. And as for this rubbish about CC wardens making you move your 'van a few inches, I have never, ever, come across one example.

 

One or two on here should try dismissing their stupid prejudices and give it a try. The UK has some superb places to visit.

 

 

 

[Rayjsj]

Grey waste is one thing, the worst that will be in it is washing up or used shower water, BLACK waste is a whole differant thing, with diseases being spread by it's careless disposal. For that, a large fine is appropriate.

The OP was at least going out of his way to dump his cassette legally. in a proper disposal point. On the Western Isles ferry companies build disposal points at the ferry terminals. (nothing fancy, believe me !) I have to admit to 'moving the peg' slightly on several occasions, when my 'Aim' hasn't been perfect. (what the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve). No warden with a theodolite has ever questioned my posistioining. ;-) Ray

[Bulletguy]

StuartO - 2014-03-30 11:03 AM

 

So you decide for yourself which rules (and laws?) to obey and you sometimes show open contempt for them.

 

 

 

I appreciate plain basic common sense logic taking precedence over 'loony illogic'.

 

 

 

Eddy - 2014-03-30 11:29 AM

 

Boy some of you have really lost the plot..........

 

 

That was 'lost' some way back Eddy!

 

It's about the only thing which has gone down the pan!

 

 

capcloser - 2014-03-30 11:36 AM

 

But surely there is no real cost to the CC if they allow the odd member to empty their waste so cant see the big deal, the CC is rule crazy for the sake of it....

 

 

Cost of dumping the contents of a chemical toilet? Zero if not minimal.

 

Cost of playing 'jobsworth' like this particular site?

Potentially thousands as a disgruntled member returns back home spreading the word to others considering becoming a 'clubby'.

 

 

 

 

[Bulletguy]

Rayjsj - 2014-03-30 12:54 PM

 

Grey waste is one thing, the worst that will be in it is washing up or used shower water, BLACK waste is a whole different thing, with diseases being spread by it's careless disposal. For that, a large fine is appropriate.

 

The OP was at least going out of his way to dump his cassette legally in a proper disposal point.

 

 

At least he was trying to! But simply because he hadn't stayed on site, 'jobsworth' demanded a fiver for a charity. Had they just said 'make a donation'.....fine ok that at least gives the OP choice to stick 10 or 20 pence in the pot....a fair and reasonable figure.

 

Instead they wagged the finger, waved the "rule" book and obtained money by extortion.

 

 

[StuartO]

Rayjsj - 2014-03-30 12:54 PM

 

.... The OP was at least going out of his way to dump his cassette legally. in a proper disposal point. .... I have to admit to 'moving the peg' slightly on several occasions, when my 'Aim' hasn't been perfect. (what the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve)...... Ray

 

So the owner of a proper disposal point has an obligation to make it available? There is no CC rule against allowing MH visitors to use the MH service point, it's just something they haven't chosen to offer yet and C&CC have. Their property, their choice, just as it would be to your property? Hopefully they will develop that service as soon as practicable but in the meantime why remonstrate when a warden was offering to be helpful anyway?

 

And moving the peg, isn't that lazy as well as dishonest rather than just an innocent expedient? Why not ask the warden if it matters that you haven't quite hit the spot instead? Why cheat as your first resort, without even bothering to ask? Would you resort to dishonest action in other aspects of you life too?

 

If you've read my earlier post you'll appreciate that moving the peg can throw out the next pitches too and increase the risk of a fire spreading when the next camper uses the pitch after you - or do you put the peg back as you leave?

 

It is of course possible to get to anal about things like positioning on the peg, especially in a motorhome which is likely to coccupy less pitch width than a caravan, awning and car, but moving the peg? That's interfering with a safety system in a potentially disruptive or maybe even dangerous way.

 

Why don't you think about others as well as yourself?

 

 

[StuartO]

Bulletguy - 2014-03-30 2:31 PM

 

At least he was trying to! But simply because he hadn't stayed on site, 'jobsworth' demanded a fiver for a charity. Had they just said 'make a donation'.....fine ok that at least gives the OP choice to stick 10 or 20 pence in the pot....a fair and reasonable figure.

 

Instead they wagged the finger, waved the "rule" book and obtained money by extortion.

 

 

The OP said that the lady warden was polite, so where did the finger wagging and "extortion" come from?

 

And you think 10 or 20 pence is fair and reasonable while the C&CC charge £5 - actually I think they charge £7? Would you let someone park on your drive and empty their cassette into your manhole for a 20p donation? In "All the Aires" they have calculated that it costs £2 (in water and sewerage charges) to use a service point. Even if you didn't fill with drinking water, it would still cost a lot more than 20 or 40p.

[Guest Had Enough]

Bulletguy - 2014-03-30 2:20 PM

 

StuartO - 2014-03-30 11:03 AM

 

So you decide for yourself which rules (and laws?) to obey and you sometimes show open contempt for them.

 

 

 

I appreciate plain basic common sense logic taking precedence over 'loony illogic'.

 

 

 

Eddy - 2014-03-30 11:29 AM

 

Boy some of you have really lost the plot..........

 

 

That was 'lost' some way back Eddy!

 

It's about the only thing which has gone down the pan!

 

 

capcloser - 2014-03-30 11:36 AM

 

But surely there is no real cost to the CC if they allow the odd member to empty their waste so cant see the big deal, the CC is rule crazy for the sake of it....

 

 

Cost of dumping the contents of a chemical toilet? Zero if not minimal.

 

Cost of playing 'jobsworth' like this particular site?

Potentially thousands as a disgruntled member returns back home spreading the word to others considering becoming a 'clubby'.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for completely proving the points that have been made about your attitude to rules.

 

You appear to flout them if YOU think that they are 'loony' and 'illogical' although it's very clear that many members disagree that this rule in particular is loony and illogical.

 

Just because you don't approve of a rule doesn't make it illogical. It just means that you don't agree with it. There are many rules that I'm sure you think are sensible but others disagree with. Does that make your views loony and illogical?

 

And you completely ignore the many points made about why it is unreasonable to expect that people who wild camp and don't pay site fees should, nevertheless, be entitled to use site facilities. If there's anything loony and illogical it's that argument!

 

And as for the cost being almost zero, you again ignore the arguments put forward that prove there is a cost, both in cesspit emptying and mainly in wardens' time in ensuring that wild campers dropping in are actually members and don't abuse the other facilities whilst they are there.

 

But the worst aspect of your debate is the fact that you dismiss those that have an opposing view as some kind of idiots who have 'lost the plot' whilst it's pretty obvious to us all that if anyone has come up with a gut reaction to this subject and hasn't really given it any deep thought, it's you.

 

The CC membership fee does not include site fees and the use of site facilities. Why are you having so much difficulty in understanding such a simple concept? It includes lots of things, such as the CL network, reductions on site fees etc. etc. etc. BUT IT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE FREE USE OF SITE FACILITIES!

 

Now you'll come back and say the usual rubbish about rules and jobsworths, but where does it end? If a wild camper who happens to be a member of the CC nips into a site and asks to fill up with water, is that OK? After all, the cost is almost zero. If he's been in the wilds for a couple of weeks and would like a quick shower, is that OK?

 

And the silliest statement of all is about the potential loss of thousands because the CC won't allow wild campers to nip into any site and use the facilities that those staying on the site have paid for! Yep, that'll go down well with the typical CC member, they'll be leaving in droves to show their solidarity with wild campers who are demanding free services!

 

You couldn't make it up!

 

Stop and think of just one drawback of what you are supporting. A motorhomer rolls up to empty his loo. First of all the warden has to let him in as many sites have barriers. The warden then has to ask the owner for proof of membership. The warden then has to ensure that the motorhomer isn't also having a free load of water and taking a shower because we know damn well that some of them would try it on if they could! Why should someone who hasn't paid a site fee get any of these facilities?

 

All this whilst the warden is trying to see to his paying customers, doing the cleaning, mowing the grass etc. etc.

 

Good God man, it's not rocket science and it's not someone being a jobsworth. The only thing it is, is unreasonable people expecting for nothing a facility that everyone else on the site has paid for!

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Bulletguy - 2014-03-29 11:51 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2014-03-29 7:14 PM

 

Except, it seems to me that the major obsessing is by those who find the rules irksome, or simply don't understand, or agree with, the reasons they exist.

 

 

I think you will find most people treat silly "rules" with the contempt they deserve.

 

Come on Brian.......surely even you can see the absolute battiness of the issue OP raised?

 

Five quid for a fully paid up CC member to dump his crap? *-) ..........................

Not sure I can BG. If the member wishes to stay on the site, his membership fee doesn't cover that. When he stays, he is charged a fee to cover the costs of providing, staffing, maintaining, and servicing the site. So, why is it logical to assume that services on the site should be available at no cost to someone who isn't staying, even if the request to do so is from a member? The toilet emptying facility has to have been provided in the first place, it still has to be cleaned and maintained by the warden, and metered water will be consumed while flushing the cassette, so there are costs that attach to emptying the cassette. Is it so unreasonable to expect a contribution, even from a member, toward these costs otherwise unrecoverable costs?

 

One could argue for the next millennium over whether the actual charge levied is reasonable, but the principle of asking for payment for services rendered seems reasonable enough to me. Sadly, people are inclined to abuse what is provided free, so rules, and charges, tend to be imposed to dissuade the abusers. That is life.

 

I would also add that the rules some folk judge silly, exist to deal with circumstances those judging them silly have not considered. Is there not perhaps a hint of arrogance in presuming to know which rules should apply to one's self?

[Rayjsj]

StuartO - 2014-03-30 2:36 PM

 

Rayjsj - 2014-03-30 12:54 PM

 

.... The OP was at least going out of his way to dump his cassette legally. in a proper disposal point. .... I have to admit to 'moving the peg' slightly on several occasions, when my 'Aim' hasn't been perfect. (what the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve)...... Ray

 

So the owner of a proper disposal point has an obligation to make it available? There is no CC rule against allowing MH visitors to use the MH service point, it's just something they haven't chosen to offer yet and C&CC have. Their property, their choice, just as it would be to your property? Hopefully they will develop that service as soon as practicable but in the meantime why remonstrate when a warden was offering to be helpful anyway?

 

And moving the peg, isn't that lazy as well as dishonest rather than just an innocent expedient? Why not ask the warden if it matters that you haven't quite hit the spot instead? Why cheat as your first resort, without even bothering to ask? Would you resort to dishonest action in other aspects of you life too?

 

If you've read my earlier post you'll appreciate that moving the peg can throw out the next pitches too and increase the risk of a fire spreading when the next camper uses the pitch after you - or do you put the peg back as you leave?

 

It is of course possible to get to anal about things like positioning on the peg, especially in a motorhome which is likely to coccupy less pitch width than a caravan, awning and car, but moving the peg? That's interfering with a safety system in a potentially disruptive or maybe even dangerous way.

 

Why don't you think about others as well as yourself?

 

[/quote

 

My 'aim' isn't THAT bad, and the peg has only ever been moved 'slightly', I noticed at Trewethett Farm Cornwall , that as well as the wooden Peg, there was a 'stud' set into the ground, similar to what the OS do when surveying, Coloured to the 'new' Colour code. Now that Is a good idea, then at least an immovable datum point is set. For posistioning the peg (should some selfish rascal move it ).

All in all a lesson in Anal retentivity. *-)

 

I think a £5 charge for a Service 'Halt' for a member 'En Route' would be perfectly reasonable, and would cover Water/Waste disposal costs. (I remember when the Club Mag. used to be called 'En Route' because it reflected their 'Ethos' as a 'Touring Club'. Not a site for Holiday Park homes.). Ray

[capcloser]

So common sense goes out the window to be replaced by increasingly ridiculous 'rules',of course a charge is ok but surely thousands of wild campers are not gonna decend on CC sites if they allowed this,your all daft (?)

[StuartO]

capcloser - 2014-03-30 3:56 PM

 

So common sense goes out the window to be replaced by increasingly ridiculous 'rules',of course a charge is ok but surely thousands of wild campers are not gonna decend on CC sites if they allowed this,your all daft (?)

 

“Most modern freedom is at root fear. It is not so much that we are too bold to endure rules; it is rather that we are too timid to endure responsibilities.” ? G.K. Chesterton, What's Wrong with the World

 

“I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me.” ? Dave Barry

 

[Bulletguy]

StuartO - 2014-03-30 2:50 PM

 

The OP said that the lady warden was polite, so where did the finger wagging and "extortion" come from?

 

And you think 10 or 20 pence is fair and reasonable while the C&CC charge £5 - actually I think they charge £7? Would you let someone park on your drive and empty their cassette into your manhole for a 20p donation?

 

 

Yes.......regularly.

 

My next door neighbour has two cars and a works van. Rather than it cluttering up the road i let them park it in my driveway. Why not? I have plenty of room so what's the problem? They are decent people.

 

As for toilet 'activities'. If a passerby knocked on my door and asked to use my loo.....no problem.

 

If i began getting masses of people queuing outside to use my loo (highly unlikely), then i'd stick an 'honesty tin' in the bathroom.

 

 

Had Enough - 2014-03-30 2:52 PM

 

Thank you for completely proving the points that have been made about your attitude to rules.

 

 

No problem.....you're welcome.

 

 

Brian Kirby - 2014-03-30 3:02 PM

 

Not sure I can BG. If the member wishes to stay on the site, his membership fee doesn't cover that. When he stays, he is charged a fee to cover the costs of providing, staffing, maintaining, and servicing the site. So, why is it logical to assume that services on the site should be available at no cost to someone who isn't staying, even if the request to do so is from a member?

 

 

When i go to my local Supermarket it's always well maintained and staffed, i get excellent service, not charged a "membership" fee, don't have to pay an "entrance" fee, and come away with the items of my choice.....which of course i pay money for. They give me free bags but i don't get a pretty sticker to let everyone know i shop there.

 

All this nonsense the OP experienced just strengthens my own resolve to the reasons i don't have anything to do with MH/Caravan clubs or contemplate joining one. Each to their own obviously but having run clubs myself in the past and seen how quickly and easily it turns the least expected of some folk into control freaks once they get the slightest whiff of 'power', i'm content in distancing myself from the loony lot with their "rules".