Jump to content

Can Germany be trusted?


nowtelse2do

Recommended Posts

They make great ebikes and anything other than a German built motorhome ain't worth having ....so I'm all for em and they also give us great euro pop music like ....errr and what other European country lets the female types grow under arm hair with pride and there still in the World Cup
Link to comment
Share on other sites

antony1969 - 2014-07-01 9:44 PM

 

They make great ebikes and anything other than a German built motorhome ain't worth having .... and there still in the World Cup

 

There was a time when the A/Sleeper was the best MH ever built.......but alas, no more, as for still being in the World Cup....is that by stealth or dishonesty, last nights game was a cracker, no team deserved to have lost ;-)

 

Haven't you got that ebikes wrong? I thought you Yorkshire folk only knew ebieks :-D

 

I'm away until Saturday and there's no wifi, should have waited until then to start this thread *-)

 

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest pelmetman
malc d - 2014-07-02 8:27 AM

 

nowtelse2do - 2014-07-01 9:15 PM

 

It seems Angela is still using Junkers.

 

 

Dave

 

I doubt it.

 

The Junkers company went out of existence many years ago.

 

;-)

 

They're a new German firm Malc ;-).....................They provide p*ss heads for juggernauts :D

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pelmetman - 2014-07-02 8:51 AM

 

malc d - 2014-07-02 8:27 AM

 

nowtelse2do - 2014-07-01 9:15 PM

 

It seems Angela is still using Junkers.

 

 

Dave

 

I doubt it.

 

The Junkers company went out of existence many years ago.

 

;-)

 

They're a new German firm Malc ;-).....................They provide p*ss heads for juggernauts :D

 

 

 

 

You've lost me there Dave - I have no idea what that means.

 

:-D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest pelmetman
malc d - 2014-07-02 9:12 AM

 

pelmetman - 2014-07-02 8:51 AM

 

malc d - 2014-07-02 8:27 AM

 

nowtelse2do - 2014-07-01 9:15 PM

 

It seems Angela is still using Junkers.

 

 

Dave

 

I doubt it.

 

The Junkers company went out of existence many years ago.

 

;-)

 

They're a new German firm Malc ;-).....................They provide p*ss heads for juggernauts :D

 

 

 

 

You've lost me there Dave - I have no idea what that means.

 

:-D

 

Apparently Mr Junkers is rather partial to a snifter of Brandy for breakfast ;-)...................

 

"Juggernaut" from my mate Wiki :D

 

A juggernaut in current English usage, is a literal or metaphorical force regarded as mercilessly destructive and unstoppable. This usage originated in the mid-nineteenth century[1] as an allegorical reference to the Hindu Ratha Yatra temple car, which apocryphally was reputed to crush devotees under its wheels.[2]

 

Seems like a pretty accurate description of the EU >:-)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pelmetman - 2014-07-02 10:56 AM

 

malc d - 2014-07-02 9:12 AM

 

pelmetman - 2014-07-02 8:51 AM

 

malc d - 2014-07-02 8:27 AM

 

nowtelse2do - 2014-07-01 9:15 PM

 

It seems Angela is still using Junkers.

 

 

Dave

 

I doubt it.

 

The Junkers company went out of existence many years ago.

 

;-)

 

They're a new German firm Malc ;-).....................They provide p*ss heads for juggernauts :D

 

 

 

 

You've lost me there Dave - I have no idea what that means.

 

:-D

 

Apparently Mr Junkers is rather partial to a snifter of Brandy for breakfast ;-)...................

 

"Juggernaut" from my mate Wiki :D

 

A juggernaut in current English usage, is a literal or metaphorical force regarded as mercilessly destructive and unstoppable. This usage originated in the mid-nineteenth century[1] as an allegorical reference to the Hindu Ratha Yatra temple car, which apocryphally was reputed to crush devotees under its wheels.[2]

 

Seems like a pretty accurate description of the EU >:-)

 

 

 

Going back to the original post - about trusting the Germans -

 

... if they were ' up to something ' I don't think that Mr. Juncker, a former prime minister of Luxemburg would have got the job.

 

( ..... and what's wrong with having brandy with your corn flakes ? )

 

 

;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Th EU will only last as long as German Politicians can convince German Workers that their taxes are being spent well in other countries supporting people who 'don't work as hard'. There is already some dissent, it is only a matter of time.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Robinhood - 2014-07-02 3:37 PM

 

malc d - 2014-07-02 11:12 AM

 

( ..... and what's wrong with having brandy with your corn flakes ? )

 

 

 

....it's undoubtedly better than having corn flakes with your brandy.........

 

;-)

 

Dunno. I had some Spanish brandy once that would have been improved no end by a few cornflakes! :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest pelmetman
malc d - 2014-07-02 11:12 AM

 

Going back to the original post - about trusting the Germans -

 

... if they were ' up to something ' I don't think that Mr. Juncker, a former prime minister of Luxemburg would have got the job.

 

( ..... and what's wrong with having brandy with your corn flakes ? )

 

 

;-)

 

Maybe Dave should have titled this thread........."Can Junkers be trusted" ;-)..................as he appears to have form in the sneaky department *-)...............

 

 

Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker announced his resignation on Thursday and called for snap elections.

 

The move came after Juncker was accused by his own coalition partner of failing to stop the abuse of power by the country's secret service.

 

Juncker has denied any wrongdoing.

 

'Do we really require the Prime Minister to be aware, 24 hours a day, of the activities of the 60 employees of the Intelligence Service? Really? Is the fact that it operates under the authority of the Prime Minister a sufficient reason to conclude automatically that if something goes wrong, I should assume political responsibility and resign? I don't think so', said Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker.

 

The scandal emerged after Luxembourg's parliament reviewed a report alleging that the country's security agency was illegally bugging politicians and misusing public funds.

 

Juncker became prime minister in 1995 and is the EU's longest serving head of government. He was also president of the Eurogroup between 2005 and 2013.

The current government will remain in office until the elections take place, sometime within the next three months.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian Kirby - 2014-07-02 6:37 PM

 

Robinhood - 2014-07-02 3:37 PM

 

malc d - 2014-07-02 11:12 AM

 

( ..... and what's wrong with having brandy with your corn flakes ? )

 

 

 

....it's undoubtedly better than having corn flakes with your brandy.........

 

;-)

 

Dunno. I had some Spanish brandy once that would have been improved no end by a few cornflakes! :-)

 

I had some of that once. Interesting taste. Strangely enough it turned out to be very good for cooking with due to its powerful if unusual flavour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well we didn't get back until late last Saturday, in the house for a hour then there was a power failure until 10.30pm Monday. Lost all the frozen food :-(

 

Anyway I didn't know I could see into the future, posted this thread on the 1st July then the mail came out with this on Friday 4th. A bit long (sorry) but intresting.

 

 

Is the EU just a German racket to take over Europe? Nearly 25 years ago, a Tory minister told DOMINIC LAWSON it was - and lost his job in the firestorm that followed. but was he right all along?

 

ByDominic Lawson

 

Published: 01:56, 4 July 2014 | Updated: 12:52, 4 July 2014

 

 

In the wake of David Cameron’s unsuccessful battle to prevent the German-backed Luxembourger Jean-Claude Juncker from becoming President of the European Commission, the Conservative MP Stephen O’Brien bellowed across the chamber of the House of Commons that the PM should ‘take inspiration from the fact that in a previous battle of Britain we saw off many Junkers before’.

 

 

This contrived attempt to link the current power struggle within the EU to the fight against the Nazis in World War II — Junkers was the company that built the Stuka dive-bomber — brings back memories of what a much more distinguished Conservative MP said to me 24 years ago.

 

 

This was Nicholas Ridley, the Secretary of State for Industry in Margaret Thatcher’s final administration.

 

 

In the first week of July 1990, I had gone to his Oxfordshire home to conduct an interview for The Spectator, which I then edited. At some point I asked him, in quite a desultory fashion, about the drive towards European Monetary Union.

 

 

It was a light-the-blue-touch-paper moment — emphasised by the way the chain-smoking Ridley dragged hard on his cigarette between making his explosive points: ‘This is all a German racket designed to take over the whole of Europe.

 

 

‘It has to be thwarted. This rushed takeover by the Germans on the worst possible basis, with the French behaving like poodles to the Germans, is absolutely intolerable?.?.?.?I’m not against giving up sovereignty in principle, but not to this lot.

 

 

You might just as well give it up to Adolf Hitler, frankly.’

 

Startled, I interjected that the then German Chancellor, Helmut Kohl, was surely preferable to Hitler — he wouldn’t be dropping bombs on us, after all.

 

 

If anything, this made Ridley even more vehement: ‘I’m not sure I wouldn’t rather have the shelters and the chance to fight back, than simply being taken over by economics.

 

 

‘He’ll soon be coming here and trying to say that this is what we should do on the banking side and this is what our taxes should be. I mean, he’ll soon be trying to take over everything?.?.?. You don’t understand the British people if you don’t understand this point about them. They can be dared.

 

They can be moved. But being bossed by a German — it would cause absolute mayhem in this country, and rightly, I think.’

 

I should add that Ridley was completely sober (he drove me back to his local station afterwards) and would occasionally glance at the tape-recorder that I had placed in front of him. But he clearly underestimated just how much offence his words would cause — especially as the then President of the Bundesbank, Karl Otto Pohl, was due to visit Britain the following week.

 

 

In the uproar that ensued following the publication of the interview, Margaret Thatcher immediately demanded Ridley’s resignation.

 

 

Three months later, she gave the go-ahead for the pound to join the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM), then seen as the precursor to membership of full European Monetary Union.

 

 

That made me feel less bad about Ridley losing his job over my interview with him, since I imagine he would have detested the idea of being part of a government that had joined the ERM.

 

 

And when German refusal to countenance sterling devaluation within the ERM led to Britain’s humiliating exit on September 16, 1992 (Black Wednesday), he would probably have felt vindicated.

 

 

Largely as a result of that fiasco, which all but destroyed the Tories’ reputation for economic competence, there was never much chance of Britain giving up its currency for the euro — however much that disappointed Tony Blair as Prime Minister.

 

 

Instead, it was the Greek people who demonstrated what Ridley warned would be the consequence of joining a common currency run along lines approved by Germany.

 

When the German Chancellor Angela Merkel declared that her government would have to have ‘oversight’ — Uberwachung — of the grotesquely over-indulged Greek public sector, to ensure the necessary reduction of their euro-denominated debts, there were riots in Athens.

 

 

Greek newspapers depicted the German government as Nazis, with Merkel as Reichsfuhrer, complete with swastika armband.

 

 

While it is true that Nazi Germany had occupied Greece during World War II, the only present-day Nazis in Athens are Greek, in the form of the unrepentantly fascist party Golden Dawn, which won seven per cent of the popular vote in 2012.

 

 

Golden Dawn is, in fact, the most odious of the national political reactions not just to the euro but also another aspect of the attempt to build a federal Europe: completely uncontrolled immigration within the single market.

 

 

The Front National in France is perhaps the most powerful of these movements — like Golden Dawn, the party led by Marine Le Pen wants its government to withdraw from the euro, and to re-establish a national currency free of any direct German political influence.

 

 

This, however, is where the French should only blame themselves, rather than Germany.

 

 

While Ridley saw France as ‘a poodle’ going along with a German strategy to control Europe through a single currency, the truth — as leaked official documents later revealed — was that it was all along the French who had pushed the rapid adoption of the euro on a reluctant Germany.

 

 

The French President, François Mitterrand, saw a reunified Germany with the mighty Deutschemark as too powerful an independent force and believed that somehow the loss of its own currency would make the country, with which it had fought three bloody wars since the 1870s, a less threatening neighbour.

 

Chancellor Kohl agreed to this with some misgivings, knowing that the German people trusted the Deutschemark and the Bundesbank more than any other institution — and it was only by promising his electors that there would be no pooling of national debts within the eurozone, that he was able to do the ‘fix’ with Mitterrand.

 

 

On the other hand, it is a nonsense to have a common currency without the richer parts of the zone underwriting the debts of the poorer geographic areas: it is the German refusal to do this that has helped to blight Southern Europe.

 

 

All this could be described as conforming to the dystopia predicted by Nick Ridley to me 24 years ago.

 

 

But in other respects I believe that Ridley — who was 16 when the full horror of the Nazis’ concentration camps was revealed in 1945 — traduced modern Germany.

 

 

While Adolf Hitler, indeed, had a plan to dominate Europe, and World War I (which was triggered 100 years ago this week) was principally caused by Germany’s desire for mastery on the continent, the German political class post-1945 has been characterised above all by the desire not to throw their weight around within Europe and to subsume their national identity within a European one.

 

That is one reason why Angela Merkel broke her promise to David Cameron to help in the fight to prevent the ultra-federalist Juncker from becoming President of the European Commission.

 

 

She was confronted in her own country by the claim that the European Parliament had agreed to Juncker’s candidature and that it was deeply un-European for her to override its wishes, whatever her view as a purely national leader.

 

 

And the one thing that a modern German leader cannot be seen to be is ‘un-European’ (not for nothing is it said that when someone tells you only that he is ‘European’ then he has revealed himself to be a German).

 

 

This has been most brilliantly set out in a recent paper by the German historian Andreas Rödder titled From Kaiser Wilhelm To Chancellor Merkel — The German Question On The European Stage.

As Rödder writes: ‘Particularly after German reunification, the German political elites, fearing any suspicions of hegemonic aspirations and resolved to avoid any new 1914 experience, finally reinforced the German propensity to prioritise European integration at the price even of the strategic demands of leadership.’

 

And he unearths an extraordinary remark from a rueful Chancellor Kohl back in 1990 (the year of my interview with Nick Ridley): ‘The alternative to EMU [the Economic and Monetary Union] is back to Kaiser Wilhelm and that doesn’t help us.’

 

More ominously, Rödder sees no happy resolution of the ‘discrepancy between Germany’s veritable pro-European ideology on the one hand and massive foreign suspicions of Germany’s aspirations to hegemony and ruthless dominance’.

 

 

 

But perhaps it should gratify British readers of his tract that he quotes Margaret Thatcher as provider of the most penetrating analysis of this problem, after she had retired from the fray: ‘The desire among modern German politicians to merge their national identity into a wider European one is understandable enough, but it presents great difficulties to self-conscious nation states in Europe.

 

 

‘In effect, the Germans, because they are nervous of governing themselves, want to establish a European system in which no nation will govern itself. Such a system could only be unstable in the long term.’

 

 

That is a subtler and more profound insight than provided by Nick Ridley, and infinitely more so than by the odd present-day Tory MP, intoxicated by David Cameron’s grand-standing but futile battle to influence the appointment of the man now charged with running the entire system of EU-wide treaties and legislation.

 

 

Cameron made the error of thinking that if he could get on the right side of the leader of Germany, he could achieve what he wanted for Britain in Europe.

 

 

The late Nicholas Ridley would probably have said: well, that’s what comes of putting your trust in Germans.

 

 

But the truth is it is Germany’s obsession with being seen as ‘good Europeans’ which may well lead to the biggest mess of all.

 

The problem in Europe is not so much German hegemony as a complete absence of leadership

.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2680183/Is-EU-just-German-racket-Europe-Nearly-25-years-ago-Tory-minister-told-DOMINIC-LAWSON

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...