colin weston Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Just back from holiday in Scotland. Had an unusual noise investigated by a mobile mechanic in Wick who diagnosed a failed damper on the engine pulley which drives the alternator and PAS pump. (The pulley was contacting the casing on the engine causing the noise.) Had to wait 3 days for new part to be despatched from Inverness with two new belts. The belts were fitted with some difficulty as he didn't have the special fitting tools. These multi-V belts are now of the stretch variety, i.e. there is no separate tensioner. He advised getting the bolt torques checked when I got back home. I tried to get them checked at a Peugeot garage on the way back but they didn't have a suitable ramp. They did however supply me with the tightening procedure: 4.5 daNm then 120 degrees of rotation. (4.5 daNm equates to approx 33 lb.ft if I have made the correct conversion) I don't particularly want to make the long and expensive trip to the Peugeot garage in Manchester. Would anyone know the equivalent final torque value for these bolts. Basically, I just want to ensure that they are sufficiently tight. As a matter of interest the mileage was approx. 38,000 and the engine is a Peugeot 2.2 litre 120 hp in a 2007 Autocruise Starburst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Hi Colin, This is a very common fault on Transits with the same engine. Often the first anyone knows about it is when the alternator light comes on because it is soaked with oil! The pulley wobbles in the direction of the cam cover and cuts a groove in it through which your oil spouts. This contaminates the alternator and will allow your oil level to drop perilously low. Anyone who runs a 2.2 Puma engine in a Ford, Fiat, Peugeot or Citroen needs to act swiftly if any unusual sounds are heard from the engine. Sorry, I don't know the correct torque settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 There's no mention of a final torque figure in the manual, Colin - you have to do it by the initial torque plus x degrees of rotation method, as you do with many crankshaft pulleys. Workshop manual page attached. If they were done using that method and the correct values then I can't see why they would need to be checked later. If you're not happy though I think the only option is to loosen them and redo the tightening procedure again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Although tightening a screw thread to a torque figure has long been the norm its not a very accurate way of ensuring that the fastener has actually been stretched to its optimum length. This is due to the variation in friction due to fit and surface finish of the parts. By tightening to a relatively low figure that in effect takes up all the slack then by a spcified angular rotation the fastening is stretched by a known distance as it is a function of the thread pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Thanks for that explanation, George. I had often wondered why this method was specified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin weston Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 Thank you Nick, Steve and George, I guess that if this is a common problem there must be a quality control issue. The reason I am going to get the bolt load checked is that the mechanic had to do the job without a ramp and no workshop manual so he tightened the bolts using his experience. Mind you, he was a strong porridge-eating Scot! I am aware of the torque plus angle method as we were proposing this procedure some 25 years ago for critical fasteners on a new engine although in that case we were taking the bolts into yield. I queried the Peugeot Service Manager regarding whether new bolts were specified and he said no, so presumably the bolts in question don't reach the yield point. Steve, did you purchase a workshop manual or can one get access to this info on-line somewhere? Thanks again for your comments, I will get my local garage to loosen the bolts and tighten to the recommended procedure for my peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 The manual can be downloaded from the Fiat Forum, Colin. You will need to register if you are not already a member, then go to the Ducato section then Downloads. It's entitled 'Ducato 250 eLearn' and is a rar archive in 7 parts. This extracts to a CD ISO disc image. You can either burn this to a CD or mount it using a virtual CD driver such as Daemon Tools Lite (free). It relates to the early Euro4 Ducato where the 2.2JTD was equivalent to the Boxer/Relay 2.2 (although there was no 120bhp version in the Fiat most things will still be relevant). Tip: to open the manual, having selected the language and the model variant, you need to click on the picture of a van - it's not immediately obvious.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I would recommend changing the bolts regardless or what the service manager says. I have worked in the motor trade, for nearly 20 years and the only stretch bolts I have come across that are recommended for re-use need to be measured. All others need to be replaced as once they are stretched they can not be stretched again and are risk of snapping. For the sake of three bolts and a tenner or so it is not worth the risk of further damage Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin weston Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Hi Steve, Have downloaded manual from Fiat Forum and put it on DVD. My computer doesn't recognise the .rar extension and some of the downloads available get flagged up by my anti-virus program. I didn't fully understand 'This extracts to a CD ISO image'. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin weston Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 Decided to get new pulley bolts fitted to be on the safe side. 3 bolts £5.08 incl VAT plus £10 fitting at my non-franchished garage. Low price for peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 colin weston - 2014-07-07 11:56 AM Hi Steve, Have downloaded manual from Fiat Forum and put it on DVD. My computer doesn't recognise the .rar extension and some of the downloads available get flagged up by my anti-virus program. I didn't fully understand 'This extracts to a CD ISO image'. Any suggestions? You'll need to download and install WINRAR if .rars aren't being recognised. Then open the first .rar in the sequence and it will prompt you to extract the archive. The other .rars in the series get included automatically. Sorry can't advise on your antivirus - they are often over-enthusiastic and I'd doubt that the Fiat forum is distributing bad files. Winrar should produce 1 file, called I think, X250.iso Either burn this to a CD (any writer program will recognise a .iso and know what to do with it) or mount it with Daemon Tools Lite. Failing that PM me your address and I'll send you a CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin weston Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Hi Steve, Thanks for the additional info. I finally got it sorted after downloading the rarlab.com trial software. Computers drive me up the wall at times but without them we wouldn't have access to such a fund of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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