ColinT Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Bought a pre- reg. van Bessacarr E495 last July and have had nothing but problems with it from the start. The day we collected a light fitting was missing in the bathroom, interior mirror not fitted and other little jobs not done. We took the van and have used it three times in the year each holiday cut short due to something going wrong. The dealer has had it back lots of times, all documented, and has failed to fix the faults, some of which were on the van when we purchased it others seem to crop up as we use it. They have damaged the van, small dents in the bodywork and a dent on the inside of habitation door, also broke the nearside mirror glass but didn't admit to it until I pointed it out when collecting the van. The "manager" said he would sort it all out so we gave him a list and then never heard back from him. Left it a couple of weeks and took a letter in saying a week to reply and a month to fix or we reject it. They phoned and said bring it in on 16th of June for THREE DAYS!!! and we will fix it all. Three days past heard nothing, 7 days later get an update, "the part we ordered for the fire didn't fix it so will order another part that will be here tomorrow". They have just phoned today, 7 days too late to say the van is fixed but are disputing the damage at this late stage. Now they have gone past the deadline, what do we do?? Anyone been through this? I hope no one else has to, it's realy taken the edge off the new van and put me off motor-homing altogether! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Hi Colin... Sorry to hear of your woes... So is(was) it a "new" van?...I suppose you could contact the manufacturer's HQ and relay your problems ( a great disappointment.. blah blah....owning such a vehicle was your dream..etc ;-) )?..they may gee the dealer up a bit?(although I wouldn't bank on it, as your "contract" is with the seller, not them). So this "deadline", was it just something you just came up with?(ie.."fix it by XX date, or else..!")? or was it something advised by the likes of CAB.? Are there any major/"unfixable" faults with it?...(..as I wouldn't have thought you'd have much joy trying to reject a vehicle over things like missing light fitting and a cracked door mirror lens etc) ..and after a year(and three holidays) you may have problems "rejecting" at all?.... I'd be contacting the likes of Trading standards to see how you stand.. Although I'm sure others, far more clued up than me will be along soon...... (OT .We had a dealership close down, "mid-claim"...and we only found out when we took a drive out to see them one weekend, only to find the place cleared out ....We were eventually passed to another branch but eventually the whole company went pop!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Hi, thanks for reply. CAB said to write to them and give the ultimatum. Possibly should have done it months ago but you keep thinking they will get it sorted soon but they didn't and don't seem that concerned. It is mainly small things that are wrong but It still stops us using the van as we should have been able to. The most major fault was/is a small crack in the plastic lining in the over cab bed, but didn't stop us from using it. Had trouble twice with electrics, noisy blinds, squealing brakes, bathroom door wont close properly, fire wont light, seat adjuster was broken, had been glued, window seals faulty, toilet cassette came off wall, hab. door stay fallen off x 3 and lots of other niggles, all things that I could have fixed myself but not after spending £45k.. So nothing major but they can't/won't? fix it. The van was sold as second hand as it was registered by the dealer and had about 100 miles on the clock but I would have thought that was new as far as all the workings were concerned. Think I need a recommendation for a good solicitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I know a man who rejected a motorhome successfully twice and he got all his money back on both occassions, despite having owned at least one of the vans for two years. Two different makes of MH, two different dealers. But he is a very determined man and he was prepared to take the risk of going to court and incurring big costs. The settlements were last minute, right on the threshold of the court hearings and his legal costs were £45,000 by the time it got his far - and he might have been liable for the dealer's costs if he had lost. But he didn't lose and they caved in. If you have a well recorded story of multiple failures to resolve multiple faults, then you could perhaps do the same. But it isn't for the faint hearted and no one sticks their neck out for you. The legal road is a minefield and you can easily get caught out by technicalities and procedures, so you do need a lawyer. And balls of course, real balls. Perhaps best to talk to a lawyer sooner rather than later, to make sure that your ultimatum and so on have been delivered in the right way. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 This subject of rejection has been covered before and also the subject of legal representation, so a look through past threads should help. However, if you have household contents/property insurance you are probably paying for legal cover even though it was probably slipped in without you knowing it. SO the point is that it is "legal cover" for anything NOT just the house related problems. Please look at your policy and give the Legal phone number a ring - it will be free. I have done this myself so it is not something I have heard from a third party and YES it was motorhome related. Took their advice and a satisfactory result was achieved. Good Luck Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 StuartO - 2014-07-07 7:04 PM Perhaps best to talk to a lawyer sooner rather than later, to make sure that your ultimatum and so on have been delivered in the right way. Good luck! Agree with this bit ;-)...................and a proper lawyer/solicitor not just a pretend headed letter from a fictional company, that appears to be all the rage now days *-)............. It shows to company that they're dealing with someone who will not be palmed off with excuses from the excuse book ;-).............. Although the same applies to businesses as some customers have the morals of a skunk :-|................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docted Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Hi Colin sorry to hear of your problems. The "ultimatum" if it was your idea what did you say "or else" to the dealer? The fact that you handed the letter in leaves it open to the manager saying I never got it.So any further correspondence should be recorded delivery. Now the "ultimatum" if the van was fixed now would you want to keep it or do you want to change the van? If you want to keep the van get a quotation of tthe costs to repair from at least one other dealer preferably two dealers. Post a copy of the quotes to the "offending dealer" tell him you are going to the small claims court unless he offers the amount on the quotes within two weeks.Use Recorded delivery letter and if he does not match the smaller quote go to small claims court straight away. If you don't want to keep the van it becomes more awkward you have to prove that the van is unfit for purpose, easier said than done. My first step to follow that throughis to try to get Trading Standards to help you by contacting the dealer in the first instance. You will however probably have to use a lawyer at some stage even if it is just to send a letter threatening legal action, but remember do not issue empty threats always follow through on your promises. Be prepared for lots of apparent head butting because this is not an easy course of action to follow through and it can lead to a lot of stress in your family life and even your employment if you arestill working. This just an outline of the actions involved here and speaking personally I would go Small Claims route its easier and is a lot cheaper less stress and quicker. Good luck in whatever you choose to do. Docted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 You seem to have accepted an offer to get the van fixed, now this has been done (although several weeks late) you want to reject the van! IMO this would weaken your case. I've been involved in a couple of civil cases and it's not something to do on a whim, you need to be prepared to invest a lot of time and/or money. If your relationship with the dealer has not completely broken down it might be a good idea to discuss with them a way forward, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Well they may have repaired the van, don't know because I haven't seen it yet, but going on our previous experience every time they have told us the van is ready when we have gone to collect it they have not completed all the jobs, that's why its taken a year. Last time they phoned and said that the van was repaired and ready to collect, we went to collect it got inside the van and was told they hadn't been able to do the seals as Swift , it was their fault, hadn't sent enough seal! I asked what they had done to the bathroom door and he said "Ah I didn't know what was wrong with that exactly, I thought it was the bottom seal" so I said did you replace the seal? No I wasn't sure. The seal isn't the only problem with it!! I asked have you done the brakes, yes he replied, the first corner I came to the brakes squealed! So another 3 or 4 days wasted. We are fed up!!! Anyway perhaps it's all repaired, that just leaves the damage they have done to it, they are arguing about paying for the dents where they have damaged it. If they repair it I think we will have it back, but I will take legal advice before doing anything now. They have left it till now to argue about the dents, he said that the after sale manager needs to look at them, I asked why he hadn't looked at them, he said hes been away for a couple of days, I said you've had the van since the16th June, he's been busy on other jobs. He said something like we were lucky to get it done now, at this time of year because they are extremely busy, he would have told me to bring it in at the end of August!!! So have a van sitting in our drive for another 2 months. I think it's absolutely disgusting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Some excellent advice above. Do you have the dealers responses in writing, or were they, as I suspect, all verbal? If verbal, they will presumably be denied if used agianst the firm. I too suspect legal rejection is now very improbable: basically you will be deemed to have accepted the vehicle, and to have accepted the dealer's offers to remedy the defects. The damage is difficult, since I assume you cannot prove that the dealer, and not you (or A N Other!), caused it. The advice to look at home, or even van, insurance for legal assistance is good. However, as you have already been in touch with CAB, why not go back to them initially with all your "evidence" and see what they say? I understand the branches should have a duty solicitor to give general advice on consumer matters. They won't represent you legally, but should give a realistic appraisal of where you stand. Then use the insurer's legal assistance as necessary. The idea of taking the van to a couple of alternative Swift group dealers for quotes to repair, and then using that as the basis for a claim against the dealer in the small claims court, is also good. I believe the maximum that can be pursued through the small claims channel is about £5,000. Once above that limit the procedures, the costs, and the risks rise sharply. Attempting rejection, at £45K, would not be dealt with through small claims and would carry high costs and risks. Keep it simple, so far as possible. Final thought. Have you been dealing with a salesman, or workshop manager, or the MD? If not the MD, I suggest you make contact with him, and ask for a meeting to resolve your complaints, as it is his firm, and those under him may be fobbing you off to try to keep their own satisfaction records clean. You will the find out if the firm is rotten, or if it is only the person you have dealt with. But first see what CAB suggest re this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docted Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Brian F.Y.I. limit in the small claims court is now £100,000. I was as surprised, as I am sure you are, when I checked on gov.uk website. I knew it had gone up but thought it was in region of £20,000. Colin It still is a very hard process to go through having to prove van is unfit for purpose, e.g. the brake squeal you mentioned that is usually a product of a vehicle being unused for a few days or dependent on weather as happened to me overnight. When I set off in my car this a.m. the brakes squealed at the bottom of my driveway,once only removing a little bit of corroson on the discs, I had the car washed yesterday weather was mild overnight. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. Docted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Cor! Thanks for that Eddie. That seems to have been changed without fanfare. How odd, but it's about time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Colin t. I was informed a couple of years ago that if i had some "finance" on my van eg a loan thru black horse or similar then you have a better chance of gaining a satisfactory result if you inform the bank as they are the "real"owners of vehicle and want their investment to be fit for purpose : and have more weight to throw around then someone such as myself :but if you have paid outright for it then i suppose threatening with legal action must be the only course :- good luck pp :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Had a call to say it would be ready to collect on Thursday. I emailed to asked what they had found with the a couple of the faults. The one with the heki they had looked at before said they had repaired it and test drove the van, we have a tracker on the van and it had not been out of their yard! This is their reply: We could not find any electrical issue with your motorhome, you had mentioned that your awning light would come on off its accord. We have checked this a number times and cant get it to fault. The awning light is an entry/exit light, so I can only imagine it has come on when you have exited the vehicle through the habitation door or switched the light on at the control panel. With regards to the rear heki skylight noise, we have re insulated around the heki so that noise coming through is down to a minimal. Obviously you will always get some draught coming through there or a slight sound of wind, due to this being for ventilation purposes. I can also confirm that marquis are more than happy to repair the dents on the exterior of the vehicle, however we will not be repairing the dent that has occurred on the inside of the habitation door. I think I would know if we had opened the door or switched the light on!! I notice that swift don't put a wind deflector in front of the heki, is that normal now? I will of coarse phone sargent in the morning and probably find out what the electrical problem is. May as well repair it myself as well!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Hi Neither of our last couple of coach-built MHs( Compass and Chausson) had "wind deflectors" fitted to any of their roof vents..and I don't think many do?(not as standard). (If they did, they wouldn't be selling 'em as an "after-market" add-on....) As infuriating as all this is for you, I'm sorry but I still can't really see anything serious enough that would justify going down the, probably arduous road of "rejecting" a vehicle 12 months on...? There have been folk on here who have had their low mileage engines eat themselves whilst on holiday in France..and some with multiple(expensive!) gearbox faults, ECU "failures", faulty looms etc etc... So be thankful that you've only had stuff like squeaky brakes, a missing lamp cover..and a wind noise at a roof vent etc, to put up with... :-D Don't ya just love motorhome dealers, with their p*ss poor PDIs ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Hi Colin, I had issues with the dealer who supplied my Swift in 2008. Lowdhams were unable to fix numerous faults despite having the vehicle for several weeks at a time. The biggest problem was the habitation door not fitting properly. I wrote to Swift who promptly arranged for the vehicle to be returned to the factory. Everything was fixed within a short period and no other faults have developed over the 6 years. I would recommend you name the dealer on here and also write to Swift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I'm a bit surprised that, after a year and numerous visits to the dealer, the manufacturer hasn't already been contacted..... Although I know when we had issues with a Compass we had, the manufacturer(Explorer Group) just didn't want to know.... :-S All we got back from them was a list of their *alternative dealers, stapled to a "With Compliments" slip! (..*and none that were local to us, would undertake warranty work on vehicles they hadn't sold!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 @ Colin: I would have accepted the van being fixed but it hasn't. As I said yesterday the electrical fault has not been fixed, they can't find the fault. I explained the symptoms exactly face to face but they couldn't fix it. I telephoned Sargent this morning and without the model number of the unit in our van Sargent have told me it's a faulty PSU, they could have phoned us he said! They also have not repaired the damage (dents) on the van, they said they would in an email. Those that think this is not enough to reject the van what should I do, just take the van back with all the faults that are still on it and live with it, is that what you would do? I can't see what options I have, they are pushing me to make a rejection. I should have done it a lot sooner, with hind-sight..... but we kept thinking this time would be the last!! I truly honestly don't think there will be a last with this dealer I don't think they can get it right. Two days ago the workshop manager told me how lucky I was to get the van repaired now as they are extremely busy at the moment and if it had been up to him he would not have booked it in untill the end of August!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docted Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Colin sorry to hear that the problems are still ongoing. If you haven't already now is the time to start a paper trail, with a letter, could be e-mail, to the managing director at Marquis. Lay out what your problems are, what the workshop has claimed to do and hasn't especially the tracker evidence. Give that person a reasonable time to reply,10-14 days, with the promise of small claims court action, not a threat, if he one doesn't reply. Similarly time to physically solve the issues to your satisfaction. Finally if no agreement can be reached follow through on your promise. Good luck docted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docted Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Colin I have sent you a private message docted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thanks docted, we have a good paper trail including an email saying they would repair the dents, but they now say they wont. The paper trail doesn't get the van repaired and they seem completely incompetent in fixing it. When asking for the head office they tell me they are the head office, then tells me I can speak to the manager if I want. that's the man that didn't answer our email regarding all the faults, then after three weeks we hand delivered a letter. I know it was the correct email address as I contacted him again using an alias saying I was interested in spending £48 to £55k on a van. I soon got a reply to that one!! Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I see the name Marquis. Was this the supplying dealer? If so which branch was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 If you have not already done so, you should write to Mike Crouch, the Managing Director, at the address shown at the bottom of the contact page on their website. http://www.marquisleisure.co.uk/about-marquis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Hampshire Upham, that's where they should be!!!! Was going to edit previous post but..... emailed marquis first thing this morning to get model number of PSU before calling Sargent, but after a couple of hours I called Sargent anyway as marquis are very busy and they gave me the info without a model, PSU fault as I'm sure anyone hear with the smallest amount of knowledge would suspect. Obviously if marquis had phoned Sargent on the 16th June they would have got the same reply and the van would have been fixed by now, except for the dents!! Anyway got a reply from marquis with the model number and asking why I wanted it as he may be able to help!!!!!!!!! I told him nothing personal but they obviously couldn't help or it would have been repaired by now. I also asked if it is not repaired completely before the summer, I did state this year, I'm starting to get sarcastic now, would we be able to hire a motorhome and send them the bill. Last weekend we had to go away and use B&B. Haven't checked email for a while but hadn't got a reply earlier. I haven't checked with Swift yet but how these people can be a recommended dealer, if they are, is way beyond my comprehension! Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Sorry to go on but.... Just phoned Swift to see where I stood with warranty and the lady was quite concerned about what has been going on. She went on to tell that marquis have put in a warranty claim in for the habitation door, very naughty marquis, it is not faulty it is DAMAGED. Now I do want the motorhome fixed but I am an honest person and think that he who damages should pay not everyone else through Swifts loss of profits!! Swift want me to send all documentation to them to see if they can help, but unless they get a proper engineer down here I don't see how they can. Oh I did ask and marquis IS an approved dealer for Swift! Just checked my emails and there is one from marquis this morning saying habitation door on order, but surly they new that when they told me they weren't going to repair it. Thank you AliB, why could't I find that, must admit I've been looking for a head office phone number but marquis at Upham tell me they are the head office? Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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