nowtelse2do Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I'm glad I only ever buy 2nd hand.........Gawd I'm sounding like Dave !!! 8-) :D Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Colin have sent you a PM, just look in your Inbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 nowtelse2do - 2014-08-08 4:35 PM I'm glad I only ever buy 2nd hand.........Gawd I'm sounding like Dave !!! 8-) :D Dave Nah!..you bought yours, he was given his.... ;-) ..and if we are to believe what he keeps banging out(re:only those in "the herd" change their vans) we can only assume that he would still be driving his Fiat Amigo otherwise... (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 pepe63 - 2014-08-08 5:21 PM nowtelse2do - 2014-08-08 4:35 PM I'm glad I only ever buy 2nd hand.........Gawd I'm sounding like Dave !!! 8-) :D Dave Nah!..you bought yours, he was given his.... ;-) ..and if we are to believe what he keeps banging out(re:only those in "the herd" change their vans) we can only assume that he would still be driving his Fiat Amigo otherwise... (lol) Naah the big end went ;-).....................so I got rid...............well it was a Fiat :D............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Does the fact that it was sold as second hand (pre reg and 100 miles) affect the statutory rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Billggski - 2014-08-08 5:43 PM Does the fact that it was sold as second hand (pre reg and 100 miles) affect the statutory rights? In a nutshell, no. It might open the door to the seller claiming that the van was bought in the knowledge it had certain defects, which the buyer had accepted at the time, but had subsequently changed his mind. However, I think the dealer would have to prove that the buyer had known of, and accepted, those defects to make that claim stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Yes, we have always bought second hand before, and never from a dealer, even more now I can't see the point in going to a dealer!! This is the first "new" van we have had but we don't feel we have had "The new van experience" or have we, is this what you get? Swift have told me we are the first registered owner. I checked this to see if we could go to a dealer that knew how to repair the van we have just in case it came back un-repaired or something else went wrong with it. Since then I haven't heard from Swift, hope they don't take as long as marquis to do anything, also haven't heard from marquis MD, after the second letter, but that doesn't surprise me. Thanks for all your help and thoughts over this disaster. Oh yes, and marquis have never said that we accepted the van with these faults, as we never did, and I think it would be a little late now 12 months on to claim that, but nothing would surprise me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Mike, I have sent you PM thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 We went to collect our van on Monday; I said I would like to check it over before signing for it so we were taken into the van by one of the managers. Now, before I go on, I have been told that I only post negative comments on here so I must say how absolutely delighted we are that marquis has given us 3/4 of a tank of fuel, a first service and a habitation check, also they have repaired all the dents that have mysteriously appeared in the van as compensation for the 12 months of not been able to repair the van. Oh, and also a FREE valet!!!!! Wonderful!! So, we went into the van, I turned right and stood by the bathroom door and the manager stood in the entrance and said "have a look around, any problems come back in to me" I said I hope there aren't any problems, I then went to open the bathroom door and he said, "Ah, we have a problem with that, Swift will not pay for the door to be replaced as the seal has been left ‘puckered up’ and has gone out of shape,” I said yes it has been like it from when we first saw the van at the show, so I said the van isn't fully repaired then? I asked him to go and we will go through our list. I next went to the rear window where they had fitted a new seal, there was still the rubber from the old seal stuck on the window, not cleaned off… what will this do to the new seal? Will it seal correctly? I next went to one of the other windows, which also had a new seal this was the same. Then went to the crack we have in the over cab bed liner, I couldn't see the crack (oh, and by this time I was videoing everything) so I rubbed my thumb over the edge of liner and a piece of silicon, or something like it, fell off to reveal the crack that they had tried to hide. I then noticed that the rear window blind and fly screen were still dirty with fingerprints from their, I can't say engineers or repair people, men from a previous repair which we had listed to be cleaned. This was after our FREE valet which we are so grateful for. I asked for the other "manager" to come and have a look and he said "it's only a minor problem and I'll get my valet team up to clean it off now" I refused, I think we have wasted enough time with this inept company. He couldn't seem to understand why we were annoyed after having waited 12 months, and it's still not fixed or even cleaned after their working on it. I do blame Swift though, not because of the faults with the van but because this is their face to the public, their dealer network, I know nothing will happen because I'm sure marquis sell a lot of vans for Swift. I was also told that Swift will not replace the over cab bed roof liner for such a small crack and he said it won't crack any more than it has. I suppose I should leave it and if it gets worse out of guarantee I can pay for this repair myself, that'l be good. Trying to attach picture of crack, and I admit it is small but where will it go from there, don't think silicon will help Ha Ha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowser Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Brian Kirby - 2014-07-08 12:53 AM The idea of taking the van to a couple of alternative Swift group dealers for quotes to repair, and then using that as the basis for a claim against the dealer in the small claims court, is also good. I believe the maximum that can be pursued through the small claims channel is about £5,000. Nope that changed last year, you can now claim up to £10,000 and in cases where the small claims track is deemed to be the best route they can deal with much higher ammounts, although the rule regarding costs is not enforce for cases where the ammount is higher. As said you would be unlikely to be able to reject a vehicle after 12 months you normaly have to do so within six months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 I'm thinking of getting in touch with BBC Watchdog or Don't Get Don get Dom programs to see if they can assist in any way?? Even though the programs are not being aired at the moment they may be filming for the next series. I can't expect another dealer to clean up the dirt that marquis have left and marquis say Swift will not repair the roof lining or bathroom door so perhaps another dealer can't help. There are still a couple of issues still not done that should be under guarantee though!! It may have to be court but against Swift or the marquis? Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Thanks for this Richard, I must get up to date on the limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 There's a run down of all relevant legislation, time limits and precedents in law on the "Honest John" website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 ColinT - 2014-08-13 3:49 PM I'm thinking of getting in touch with BBC Watchdog or Don't Get Don get Dom programs to see if they can assist in any way?? Even though the programs are not being aired at the moment they may be filming for the next series. I can't expect another dealer to clean up the dirt that marquis have left and marquis say Swift will not repair the roof lining or bathroom door so perhaps another dealer can't help. There are still a couple of issues still not done that should be under guarantee though!! It may have to be court but against Swift or the marquis? Colin Colin, that crack is visibly due to the poor fitting of the liner. It splays out at the base and the screw looks to have been driven home very hard. That is a workmanship issue, and it should be covered under warranty - unless workmanship is excluded. Have you involved Swift directly, and have Swift themselves said to you that they will not cover these two defects (the other being the washroom door seal)? If you remain dissatisfied with Swift's response your recourse will have to be against the seller. You have no contract with Swift, so no means of enforcing watever their warranty says. In effect, with warranties, the warrantor becomes judge and jury on what it means, and how far it can be stretched. There is no concept of "reasonableness" as there is in law. However, the warranty is their promise to you, the buyer, as to what they will repair. That is why I think, in view of the confusion the seller has created over who he thinks is liable for what, you should make a direct approach to Swift and, if necessary, ask for their warranty manager to look personally at the remaining defects. If, after you (I would suggest) speak to Swift (in preference to e-mailing or writing, but try to get to someone with authority) you remain convinced they will not co-operate, you will have to go to another Swift (ideally more than one, if practical) dealer and get them to cost the necessary work, including parts and labour. You should keep a note of all incidental costs you incur (fuel, etc) and add these to the costs of your claim against the seller. You'll need to talk to Trading Standards or Citizens Advice, or as suggested earlier, look into your vehicle and home insurance policies to see if you have legal cover included. Many have. You may need to give the seller one further chance to carry out the required remedial work before you initiate legal action. Take legal advice on this. Don't authorise any repairs elsewhere before the hearing, the estimates of costs should be sufficient, but again take legal advice. The case will probably go to arbitration or mediation rather than the court proper but, with good advice, in view of the history of the claim, I would think you should get a judgement in your favour. The history is relevant, insofar as it establishes why you would resort to court action to gain full redress, but only the outstanding items are now in contention, so whereas it would probably be desirable to be able to refer to the earlier difficulties, I think it would be wise to focus on the presently outstanding items. Too much detail would be liable to confuse. You will, however, need to have some kind of documentary evidence of these earlier deficiencies, or the whole proceeding could descend into verbal allegation and denial, that would go nowhere. On this, as well, it would be wise to take legal guidance. I would not, at this stage, try the Watchdog angle, as you may prejudice your eventual case. It may yet be that a solicitor's letter to the seller will bring about a further change of mind on their part. There is no point in appearing to be vindictive, though you are fully entitled to be aggrieved and dissatisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/ Probably the most comprehensive overview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dwight Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Colin. Why not go directly to Swift the Managing Director is James Turner. With details of all the problems etc and offer to take it to the Factory. When I had a problem with my previous Autotrail that the dealer said they could not fix I contacted the Production Manager at A T I had a phone call the next day to say that the problem would be sorted by the dealer, and it was very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 ColinT ,dont mean to be nosey , but i might have mentioned it before,if you havent paid cash ,but have some "finance"on your vehicle eg black horse,then they have more power to their elbow than you or i ,or so i was reliabley informed by a vehicle inspector ,just mentioning this in case it could apply to you pp:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 I agree, the roof liner is badly fitted and I would worry that the crack will travel despite what marquis say! I have spoken to Swift Customer Care and sent them all the letters, lists and emails we have. They told me that they were in contact with the dealer so I can only assume the refusal to repair has come from them. marquis told me that Swift would not replace the bathroom door because the seal was "puckered up" I just wonder how Swift new the seal was like that, I assume marquis told them, but didn't tell them it was like it from new, so presumably told them this so they would refuse to repair blaming me for the fault?? I may send Swift a picture of the crack, it's just a shame that I have to spend so much of my time when I don't feel I have done anything wrong other than waiting to long to reject the van and marquis. Great info on Honest John thanks, still a possibility for rejection, we have the money but I don't want to waste it if there's no hope although the bathroom door was reported from new and the crack well within 6 months. I would have thought someone from Swift would have contacted me as they know what's going on. Does anyone care?? Thanks for your advice Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 ColinT - 2014-08-13 9:43 PM.................I assume marquis told them, but didn't tell them it was like it from new, so presumably told them this so they would refuse to repair blaming me for the fault?? I may send Swift a picture of the crack, it's just a shame that I have to spend so much of my time when I don't feel I have done anything wrong other than waiting to long to reject the van and marquis............. Colin Colin, re the first snip above, the golden rule is: NEVER ASSUME! (Apologies for the caps - for emphasis, not shouting. :-)) Re the second snip above, being where you are, you have to do the spade work. It is your money you spent, it is your van that needs attention, and it is only with your continued and persistent chasing of all concerned that you will get results. Don't wait for them to respond, press them for responses. You're losing valuable time, and money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinT Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 Sorry Pampam, didn't see your post, there is no finance we paid cash. Paid deposit on credit card but they say they can't help. I will contact Swift tomorrow for an answer "from the horses mouth" as at the moment I'm believing marquis, they wouldn't lie would they? Sorry, I'm assuming again!! Thanks Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Maybe you should stand back and take a look at the situation. Irrespective of your dissatisfaction with the dealer are the faults/niggles bad enough for you to want to carry on with the stress and possibly cost of pursuing this? No doubt the dealer will have his side of the story and after talking to both parties an independent assessor third party might not come up with the answer you want. I went through something similar some years ago with a major firm of financial advisors and went to the FSA in the end. I got some compensation based on a particular view of the situation, with no account taken of the lies and incompetence. When I looked at the time spent, and the cost of photocopying and postage, I worked out that in effect I had been working at less than the minimum wage, to say nothing of the time spent feeling angry. Life is short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Hi Colin, Seems to me you need a 'face to face' with somebody from Swift. Would be great if they could send a rep. to meet you at the dealers and he/she may at least be able to broker a solution between them. If they won't do this I would drive to the factory and make a fuss there. The only caveat would be that I would inform the dealers first exactly what I was doing. I do not see this would negate you being able to go to court at the same time.The motorhome industry seems the worse industry for service there is, it is obvious that vans are sent out with no P.D.I. and this is bound to come back on makers in the form of more warranty claims, done properly everybody would benefit even down to being able to reduce the price of vans as the total warranty bill for the industry must be enormous. best of luck derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 derek pringle - 2014-08-14 9:31 AM Hi Colin, Seems to me you need a 'face to face' with somebody from Swift. Would be great if they could send a rep. to meet you at the dealers and he/she may at least be able to broker a solution between them. If they won't do this I would drive to the factory and make a fuss there. derek Many years ago, we had an issue with an Autosleeper Symbol, purchased new through a dealer, where there was a problem with the gas oven/hob which produced an unacceptable smell everytime it was used.. Ultimately we met up with the AS rep at the dealers, and problem solved, he had actually brought a new unit with him, and this was fitted straightaway - there are many good dealers and manufacturers out there fortunately. Indeed our present vehicle had a few issues both under and after warranty and again the dealers and manufacturers could not have been more helpful in solving them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 hi Keith, proves it can happen if there is a will or a driver. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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