Tony Norton Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Hi All, (particularly those with older motorhomes!) Just had our 1999 vintage Mohican MOT'd. It needed some welding doing around the inner front arches and outriggers. The guy who did it said "I reckon you'll find you will need some welding every year from now on". He could well be right or-------- this product I found online called "Arcarust" by Arcane Industries may possibly reduce the pain in future years. "Arcarust" is claimed by the makers to contain tannic acid which "....reacts with rust and chemically converts it to iron tannate, a dark-colored stable material." They further claim that "The overall chemical reaction converts rust into a stable, black protective coating." My question is, therefore, has anybody in the motorhome fraternity tried this? Does it work? It could be the answer to Fiat's built-in obsolescence. Tony N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Similar products have been around for many years. They "convert" the rust into a more stable form of oxide. Usually based on Tannic or Phosphoric acids or a mix of them. At least that's the theory, the problem is they don't work. They will work on light rust in laboratory conditions but not on flaking or heavy rust on a vehicle body. I have tried allsorts over some 50 years, non of these fluids does anything more than change the colour of the surface of the rust. The best I have found is not a convertor at all, simply an oily wax there are several makes, I prefer Waxoyl but Dinatrol seems as good. Applied every year or two wax will slow the rust to a snails pace, it's messy to apply and you need a ramp or pit to do it. The smell is wonderful (I think). It also a lot cheaper than snake oil! H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford60 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 hi tony, i have a 1996 ducato. failed mot due to rusted through inner wheelarches. had to get them cut out and refabricated which involved a alot of cutting and welding at a cost of £230. ( i thought this was a lot until, on retest, the tester said it was the best welding he had seen in years.) what i don't understand is your welder saying your van will need repeated welds. mine is as good if not better than new. as for rust retardant, i use "kurust" then overpaint as per instructions. only works on surface rust. nothing i know of will cure pitted rust apart from grinding or cutting out. i would keep an eye on your welder. if you've had your arches done, i don't think there is much else to go that wrong apart from the front crossmember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 clifford60 - 2014-07-25 3:16 PM hi tony, i have a 1996 ducato. failed mot due to rusted through inner wheelarches. had to get them cut out and refabricated which involved a alot of cutting and welding at a cost of £230. ( i thought this was a lot until, on retest, the tester said it was the best welding he had seen in years.) what i don't understand is your welder saying your van will need repeated welds. mine is as good if not better than new. as for rust retardant, i use "kurust" then overpaint as per instructions. only works on surface rust. nothing i know of will cure pitted rust apart from grinding or cutting out. i would keep an eye on your welder. if you've had your arches done, i don't think there is much else to go that wrong apart from the front crossmember. That's the secret ;-)................a decent body shop B-)...............I had to take my camper down to Poole as I'd yet to find a decent one up here, although trying another one next month for the delivery tranny :D........... Plus 230 quid once every 18 years seems like a bargain to me, that's less than a Fiat wing mirror (lol)......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford60 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 when put like that, pelmetman, i don't suppose i did too badly. apparently there is now a shortage of quality welders or people who are prepared to do extensive repairs. firstly because of the improvements in bodywork/paintwork design. secondly, its a crap job. no-one wants to get mucky anymore. i live in leeds. if anyone wants the details of the garage i use by all means pm me and i'll oblige. limited computer skills permitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I first came across this type of product in the 70s and it was then known as Fertan. I believe various navies of the world used it or a similar product as a rust converter/inhibitor at that time? Dave the pelmet might know? It was widely used by Cornish sea fishing and boating folk who in general ran older boats and engines where rust and corrosion was always an ongoing problem. As far as I recall it worked reasonably well in inhibiting rust on machinery although in that harsh wind swept sea salt environment nothing lasts forever. It did seem to work on cars although I generally didn't keep them long enough to give a definitive comment. I do recall that Kurust and similar paint products were nothing like as effective. What used to be called Finnigans rust primer was quite effective amongst the paints and this is now known as Hammerite No 1 Rust Beater. My experience is ancient and formulae and efficacy may well have changed, whether for better or for worse I know not, but given how generally poor at covering and durability modern paints seem to be compared the the stuff of old I would be suspicious of them all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Tracker - 2014-07-25 4:33 PM I believe various navies of the world used it or a similar product as a rust converter/inhibitor at that time? Dave the pelmet might know? It was widely used by Cornish sea fishing and boating folk who in general ran older boats and engines where rust and corrosion was always an ongoing problem. As far as I recall it worked reasonably well in inhibiting rust on machinery although in that harsh wind swept sea salt environment nothing lasts forever. I spent many happy hours with a chipping hammer removing rust from Er madges fleet ;-)..............we then, if doing the job properly........ would apply an acid, followed by a red oxide primer, then an undercoat before the top coat :D................unless we were painting aluminum then it was a different primer..........I understand that paint systems have since moved on from my day, in so far as the Forth rail bridge painters have been made redundant as they used an epoxy based system last time ;-)............... Personally I prefer Waxoyl and had Horace done when he reached 20 :D...............I don't know why people are put off by a bit of rust, as it seems much simpler and "cheaper" to repair than some of the problems people have with their campers :-S............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-07-25 4:55 PM I don't know why people are put off by a bit of rust, as it seems much simpler and "cheaper" to repair than some of the problems people have with their campers :-S............... I am inclined to agree Dave! It seems almost as hard to find a decent mechanic you can trust who can read and interpret fault code readers without just replacing bits because the computer says no, as it is to find a decent body shop with trained and experienced panel beaters and sprayers capable of dealing with rust in such a way that cures the problem for a good few years and not just move the problem further along the chassis or panel ready for another session next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Just a reminder nor to sleep in the MH if you have just waxoyled it. Let the solvents evaporate off first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Tracker - 2014-07-25 5:40 PM pelmetman - 2014-07-25 4:55 PM I don't know why people are put off by a bit of rust, as it seems much simpler and "cheaper" to repair than some of the problems people have with their campers :-S............... I am inclined to agree Dave! It seems almost as hard to find a decent mechanic you can trust who can read and interpret fault code readers without just replacing bits because the computer says no, as it is to find a decent body shop with trained and experienced panel beaters and sprayers capable of dealing with rust in such a way that cures the problem for a good few years and not just move the problem further along the chassis or panel ready for another session next year!........... I hope you realise you're agreeing with the motorhome equivalent of a heretic 8-).................... Beware Rich........ you will bring down the dog of capitalism upon yourself if your not careful............fortunately it's only an inclination..............save yourself before its too late :D................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-07-25 6:29 PM I hope you realise you're agreeing with the motorhome equivalent of a heretic 8-).................... Beware Rich........ you will bring down the dog of capitalism upon yourself if your not careful............fortunately it's only an inclination..............save yourself before its too late :D................ I gave up saving years ago Dave - when they not very nice people at Green Shield abolished their freebies that I had already paid for leaving me with two full books of useless stamps. I would trade depreciation for a bit of rust except for one thing - I like to crack on in peace and quiet and modern vans do that so much better than the golden - well more rust streaks than golden - oldies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Tracker - 2014-07-25 6:47 PM pelmetman - 2014-07-25 6:29 PM I hope you realise you're agreeing with the motorhome equivalent of a heretic 8-).................... Beware Rich........ you will bring down the dog of capitalism upon yourself if your not careful............fortunately it's only an inclination..............save yourself before its too late :D................ I gave up saving years ago Dave - when they not very nice people at Green Shield abolished their freebies that I had already paid for leaving me with two full books of useless stamps. I would trade depreciation for a bit of rust except for one thing - I like to crack on in peace and quiet and modern vans do that so much better than the golden - well more rust streaks than golden - oldies! Green shield stamps :->..............those were the day's ;-)..................we used to give them away in our shop as a kid............and I well remember the sharp kick in the shins from my mother, when I forgot the golden rule and reminded a customer she'd forgotten her stamps.................... Christmas presents were provided and our 2 bed flat was furnished by Mr Green Shield :D....... PS......you maybe faster than me Rich, but I overtook two newer campers coming back from Scotland whilst towing the trailer B-)..............although I guess it was technically downhill (lol)...........and our camper is much quieter than my works van ;-).............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-07-25 7:01 PM I overtook two newer campers coming back from Scotland whilst towing the trailer B-)..............although I guess it was technically downhill (lol)...........and our camper is much quieter than my works van ;-).............. Which reminds me - three more things I really like - power steering and air con, and most all of BRAKES that really work without fading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Tracker - 2014-07-25 7:05 PM pelmetman - 2014-07-25 7:01 PM I overtook two newer campers coming back from Scotland whilst towing the trailer B-)..............although I guess it was technically downhill (lol)...........and our camper is much quieter than my works van ;-).............. Which reminds me - three more things I really like - power steering and air con, and most all of BRAKES that really work without fading! Horace now has power steering B-).....................air con is I admit something we do not have :'(............although we prefer temperatures in the mid 20's so tend to avoid excessive heat where it would be missed ;-)....................Brakes are fine on the camper...........just have to be aware in the wet when towing a fully laden trailer unbraked trailer 8-)................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie gibblebucket Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Did your Navy career ever take you to HMS Ganges Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 josie gibblebucket - 2014-07-25 8:20 PM Did your Navy career ever take you to HMS Ganges Dave? Unfortunately not whilst I was in the service as I was to young :D..................I was a Rayleigh rating ;-)............ Best thing I ever did ;-)................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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